Is the Quadrive PDC 18/4 Li 4,2 hammer mode similar to impact mode in TI15?

RC

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There seems to be nothing on the web about the hammer functionality of the PDC.

I'm wondering can the hammer mode be used for
a) screwing like with an impact driver and
b) driving lag bolts or wheel nuts with the socket adapter like an impact wrench?

Or is it purely a drilling thing like cheap 'hammer drills' i.e. not real SDS hammer drills and should it be classified as a gimmick?
 
Let me preface this by saying that I'm not extremely familiar with the PDC.

Hammer mode is generally for masonry applications. Impact is for driving screws. The mechanical action is different for each.

Hammer mode is hitting the back of the bit in essence. Impact is hitting to assist in the rotation of the bit.

I think Paul-Marcel may have covered this in his TI-15 review video, but I'm not going to watch it again to be sure.  [tongue]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammer_drill
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_driver

http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/drills-vs-hammer-drills-vs-impact-drivers/

 
TelcoRandy said:
No offense but I think you neglected to answer his question Mr. Holland.

Fair enough. I used the PDC for less than a minute or two when I was in Germany a few weeks ago. I'll defer to someone who knows more about it to answer Reiska's questions more specifically. I was simply offering information about what the hammer mode was intended for: masonry.
 
I used it for a little bit mainly driving auger bits through old scaffolding timber. It did that very easily. I used the hammer drill function to drill holes into block to put anchors to hang shelvesmwhich it did pretty darned good.

As a hammer drill which is NOT A IMPACT and is not DESIGNED TO BE A IMPACT. It did apretty good job.

Now is it a impact ? No it is not. can it drive screws like no bodys business, yes it can.

But it is a hammer drill not a impact.

Im going to get me one to replace my Milwaukee hammer drill. For 1 because its festool, and 2 because it does a pretty god jobas a cordless hamer drill.

But to answer your question how it compares to the TI15. I cant tell you as I have not used the TI15. But I can tell you as a Hammer dril it  does the job.l
 
Reiska said:
Or is it purely a drilling thing like cheap 'hammer drills' i.e. not real SDS hammer drills and should it be classified as a gimmick?

It is not a gimmick, I don't understand why you would even use that word. It is a very useful option. A hammer option on a regular drill is a very normal thing to see, and it is meant for drilling holes into stone walls that are harder than a normal brick, like for instance real stone like marble or granite, or for concrete walls. And sometimes you'll even find bricks that are as hard as a rock and impossible to drill into with a non-hammer drill.

Of course they are not as powerfull as true SDS drills, which often have a whole different "pneumatic" mechanism. The standard hammer drill is simply meant for the smaller jobs in and around the house, mostly for drilling holes for plugs up to 8 or 10 mm. Like when you need to hang a painting or a radiator to the wall.

I have had to use the hammer option on my 220v drill many times in the past, only way to get it done. For harder stone materials, simply rotating and relying on the cutting action of the bit is not enough. Hence the hammer action, it hammers the drill bit forward, crushing the stone instead of cutting. Makes all the difference.

The PDC is meant to be a cordless vesion of that. I have drilled into concrete without any problem with it with a 10 mm bit. And as was said above, the PDC is not an impact driver. Not meant for the thougher screwing jobs. But nevertheless, the PDC has such power and such a high speed, you'll find it can do a lot of screwing anyway. 
   
 
The hammer action on the PDC is good IMO. I highly recommend it.

If you want an impact, the Ti15 is an ok driver - not the strongest on the market ... but it does take advantage the Festool systems (Centrotec, Systainer, Batteries and great Warranty). I've never used my Ti15 as a drill.
 
The Hammer option on the PDC is very effective at what it is supposed to do. . . . Drilling holes into Concrete, masonry & Brickwork.

It is in no way an impact driver. Completely different!!!  as stated by someone above.

The confusion probably stems from the fact that Festool's own website presently says "impact screwdriver" This REALLY needs to be fixed, and is a rather ridiculous oversight!

I have attached a picture and highlighted the error (Green). . .

 

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Why I call inferrior hammer mechanisms gimmicks is that I've burned a 220V 'hammer drills' motor (Bosch green) trying to drill a 6mm hole in concrete wall melting two drill bits in the process and getting a hole of 2cm done. After that I borrowed a Makita SDS off the neighbor that drilled through the 20cm wall before I was able to stop the drill. Like a boss.

So I call anything less than SDS real hammering impact mechanisms gimmicks.

I'm primarily on the market for a replacement for my trusty old Panasonic 12V drill/driver and since the now Festool Protools are now sold out I'm looking into possibly getting something more than I'd get by buying a T15/18 Festool that I was originally planning.

The PDC got my attention since it claims to have a hammer mechanism and a socket adaptor head so obviously I'm wondering would that make it a light use wheel bolt impact wrench for changing winter tires once a year. (Sounds not judging from the above) I kind of doubt that the TI15 would fair much better in this use?

In my current house I don't need hammer or SDS to make holes into the Siporex walls since you can dig a hole into it with a dull spoon.

Unfortunately the PDC's manual is just as bad as every other Festool one and doesn't even include the socket adaptor, nor does it tell much about the hammer mechanisms intended uses outside of 'drilling into masonry' or something to that tone.
 
I thought I read in one of the topics that Festool is also going to come out with an SDS drill, but it has been delayed??

Any information on that?
 
SittingElf said:
I thought I read in one of the topics that Festool is also going to come out with an SDS drill, but it has been delayed??

Any information on that?

What info do you want? This is the drill in question. It's been delayed until Spring 2014.
 
Reiska said:
Why I call inferrior hammer mechanisms gimmicks is that I've burned a 220V 'hammer drills' motor (Bosch green) trying to drill a 6mm hole in concrete wall melting two drill bits in the process and getting a hole of 2cm done. After that I borrowed a Makita SDS off the neighbor that drilled through the 20cm wall before I was able to stop the drill. Like a boss.

So I call anything less than SDS real hammering impact mechanisms gimmicks.

Well, it is true that modern concrete house walls really push beyond the limits of what the classic hammer action can do, and these days it really is better to have a pneumatic drill for that (SDS = pneumatic, most of the time). But I would sooner call your green Bosch drill a gimmick than the hammer mechanism by itself. DIY tools generally are garbage and with tougher jobs like you described above you really find their limits very soon.

Reiska said:
The PDC got my attention since it claims to have a hammer mechanism and a socket adaptor head so obviously I'm wondering would that make it a light use wheel bolt impact wrench for changing winter tires once a year. (Sounds not judging from the above) I kind of doubt that the TI15 would fair much better in this use?

The PDC 18 really isn't meant for such jobs, so no, it won't do much good there. Neither would the Ti15. You really want an impact wrench for that, like the Protool IWC 18-2. Impact wrenches are a lot stronger.
 
You're definitely right Alex that a dedicated tool would be the correct answer, but changing winter tires to two cars twice a year doesn't really give me much to work with in the cost justification area  [embarassed]

I was just wondering if Festool had actually managed to build a do-it-all tool that actually works... but no...

So I'm back to wondering if a Protool PDC 12-4 with it's gear box (but 10.8V motor) would be anywhere near in performance to a T15 or T18 for screwing large screws and drilling with hole cutters and large (>25mm) Forstner bits that my CXS cannot handle. They are throwing them out at 250€ at the moment so price wise it sounds like a steal.
 
I don't have personal experience with the PDC 12, but when you compare their given torque ratings:

PDC 12 = 45/25 Nm
T15      = 40/27 Nm
T18      = 45/30 Nm

Based on that I'd say the PDC 12 is in the same league as the T15 and T18.

When I compared the T15 and T18 with my own hands, I didn't see much difference between them, but when I compared my T15 with a PDC 18, there was a huge, obvious difference, with the PDC 18 being a lot stronger. So I'd say the way the Protools are built makes them a lot stronger than their Festool counter parts of the same voltage.
 
I got to play with the 18v Quadrive a couple of days ago at Axminster store. I drilled a few holes into a concrete block with a 8 or 10mm drill bit (didn't check). It had no problem going into the concrete block. On gear 4 the high speed gear of 3800rpm it made a lot of noise and a high pitched noise that attacks your ears. Not pleasant. In gear 1and 2 (slow speeds) it was more bearable and still went through the concrete with no problems.

The Festool rep said that the SDS is being released in spring 2014. He also mentioned that 2014 is to be an exciting year for Festool as they are bringing out several new products and these are not re-badged Protools. He would not give any clues to what they were. :(

On another note I was at another dealer where a staff member mentioned that the festool (Protool) drills or parts were made by Fein and Milwaukee!??? Looking at the Fein drills they do resemble the protools and have similar specs but way more torque at 90Nm compared to the quadrill's 60Nm. The Festool rep did say that users had measured the torque of upto 80Nm though. The Fein drill also has a similar quick change chuck system but not all the different chucks the festool has. Maybe the festool chucks will work with the Fein?

 
tazprime38, I think this post will answer your question about the Fein and Festool chucks:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3373418

They're not compatible. But that's interesting about some of the parts being made by Fein/Milwaukee. One thing that concerns me is that Milwaukee gets their stuff made in China, a country of origin I'm not fond of.

I thought the metal gearbox on the Fein drill was similar to the Protool/Festool drill, it has those same notches on it to orient the 90 degree adapter.
 
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