Is there a clear wax & oil?

onocoffee

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I've been watching a couple of videos about people making their own wax and oil combinations - and I've used Tried & True Original for a couple of pieces. The one thing I've noticed with beeswax and oil combinations is that it will slightly yellow the piece (I'm presuming because of the beeswax since mineral oil is clear). I'm interested in trying a combination that will not tint the piece. Can waxes like paraffin or gel wax be combined in a similar manner to create a wax and oil combination?

The idea is to achieve a food grade safe finish but clear.

Thanks!
 
There are waxes that art conservators use to protect oil paintings.  These are supposed to be non-yellowing.

I did a google search:  Waxes that do not yellow

Google’s A.I. corrected me and asked “Do you mean ‘waxes that don’t yellow’”.

I use about average amounts of contractions in speech, but far less than normal when writing. 

At any rate, here is the results of my search.  Plenty to choose from.  I did not read the results carefully.  I only scanned to make sure it was on-point.
https://www.google.com/search?q=waxes that do not yellow&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-m
 
onocoffee said:
I've been watching a couple of videos about people making their own wax and oil combinations - and I've used Tried & True Original for a couple of pieces. The one thing I've noticed with beeswax and oil combinations is that it will slightly yellow the piece (I'm presuming because of the beeswax since mineral oil is clear). I'm interested in trying a combination that will not tint the piece. Can waxes like paraffin or gel wax be combined in a similar manner to create a wax and oil combination?

The idea is to achieve a food grade safe finish but clear.

Thanks!
All the finishes that I have used that are wax or wax and oil will change the colour of the wood slightly. The only finish I use that has virtually no change is a water based polyurethane.
I haven’t noticed any significant changes over time but then I haven’t looked for them.
 
I don't subscribe to the theory that wax is a complete finish in itself, but if you want a less yellow finish you can buy cosmetic grade beeswax, which is basically bleached.

But ideally if you want to last for even a short while a bit of Carnauba in with the beeswax and mineral oil is my recommendation to get a more resilient finish. Especially so if exposed to UV a lot which will eviscerate plain beeswax in no time.
 
Be absolutely certain that the wax finish is the one you like best.  Because applying a clear finish over the wax is going to be problematic.  And even your best efforts to remove the wax will likely come up short.

So once you go down the waxy path, you are pretty much committed to it.

I use wax frequently, but always after I applied a clear finish first. (And with the knowledge that subsequent finishes will be difficult or impossible.
 
Hi [member=82312]onocoffee[/member],

There's a lot of rather dubious information being passed around the forums at the moment about "food safe" finishes. You may want to listen to a recent episode (Episode 326)of Fine Woodworking where they interviewed Dr. Seri Robinson from Oregon State University. In the interview, she asserts (and backs up with evidence from tests they've run at the university) that, in her opinion and based on her review of the studies, the only food-safe finish is raw wood (no finish).

That being said, I'd be incredibly cautious using any product which does not explicitly list itself as being "food-safe" on the label.

I do see that some of the Saicos oils are listed as meeting the DIN EN71-3 standard for children's toys:https://classacoatings.com/interior/saicos-premium-hardwax-oil.html

DIN EN71-3:https://law.resource.org/pub/eu/toys/en.71.3.2015.html
 
You could just use Osmo Topoil (Natural).  It has white pigment to counteract the yellowing that the clear has.
 
I would also note that “food safe” and “non-toxic” are not identical. 

This article discusses it: https://fsqservices.com/food-grade-is-not-always-food-safe/

The one finish that I have 100% confidence is safe once dried is shellac.

Not only is shellac 100% natural, it is used as an edible.

Every M & M that you have ever eaten is coated with shellac.

Every pill that you have taken that is labeled “enteric coated” is coated with shellac.

Shellac is categorized as GRAS (Generally Regarded As Safe) by the FDA.

The ingredient that you see listed on the back of the package that says “confectionary glaze” is shellac.

The two finishes I apply to the toys I make are shellac (2 coats) topped with a wax intended for cutting boards. 

Will SealCoat yellow over the years?  I’m not really that concerned as these are toys that will be outgrown. 
 
onocoffee said:
I've been watching a couple of videos about people making their own wax and oil combinations - and I've used Tried & True Original for a couple of pieces. The one thing I've noticed with beeswax and oil combinations is that it will slightly yellow the piece (I'm presuming because of the beeswax since mineral oil is clear). I'm interested in trying a combination that will not tint the piece. Can waxes like paraffin or gel wax be combined in a similar manner to create a wax and oil combination?

The idea is to achieve a food grade safe finish but clear.

Thanks!
The color you are seeing in Tried & True comes from the oil, not the wax. It is made from Boiled Linseed Oil, which is fairly dark. Beeswax is naturally yellow, but you can get it clear, which is white in pellet form. It is an actual hardening finish. BLO is a drying oil, which will cure. Raw Linseed Oil is lighter in color, but it takes quite a bit longer to cure. Because of the wax, and the absorption qualities, it will buff down and "feel" dry, before it really is cured.
Mineral Oil is indeed clear, but it is not a drying oil. It will never harden/cure. The product you are describing there is what is generally referred to as "Board Butter". It is normally used as a second coat after a dunking with pure Mineral Oil. Since it never cures, it needs constant replenishment. A cutting board will start to look dry, even unused/washed, since the oil keeps migrating in.

"Food Safe" is kind of a hot topic, and somewhat relative. There's a big difference between toys that some kid might chew on and a Charcuterie Board that some cheese or crackers might sit on.
Almost any fully cured finish would be ok for the latter, since nothing is happening there.
Cutting boards do have the potential to release particles, so a bit more caution might be required.

Colorless is virtually impossible. Even wiping Mineral Spirits onto any kind of wood, will darken it some.
Totally clear Mineral Oil will too, though it will never dry nor evaporate.

To get as clear as possible, with a wax/oil, (not water-based poly) I think the closest you will get is Raw Linseed Oil and "white" Beeswax. It will take some extra cure time, but it will harden, so it won't get the dry look after sitting.

Microcrystalline wax (and Parafin) are both derivatives of Petroleum. For furniture, boxes, tool surfaces,
maybe even Charcuterie boards, it's fine, but I wouldn't on something you will cut on (or chewed on)
Microcrystalline wax also melts at a higher temperature and requires more effort to buff out. That's not as important on end grain cutting boards, but larger areas of table tops, you migh notice it.

There are other alternatives for the solvent portion too. Orange Oil (Limonene) can be used to help thin out the mixture, which softens it, making it easier to work. Too much wax to oil is very hard in the tin and Linseed Oil is "heavier" than Mineral Oil. A little Orange Oil can take some of that away, without causing other problems.
 
[member=2726]Tom Gensmer[/member] - Thanks for the link. Listened to the podcast today. Lot's to think about and reconsider.

[member=1518]Sometimewoodworker[/member] - I hear you. In my own experiments, the clearest I've found is General High Performance.

[member=72072]woodferret[/member] - I've only used Osmo Polyx. I'll check out Topoil.

[member=74278]Packard[/member] - Shellac is an interesting option. But I have been under the impression that even shellac tints the wood slightly. I'm thinking about light woods like maple that I would like to preserve the lightness and clarity as much as possible.

[member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member] Thanks for the rundown. The helps!

A takeaway that I have from the podcast that Tom mentioned is that we don't need to finish things like cutting boards and the discussion on why is most fascinating - that bacteria absorbed into the raw board will be wicked away from the surface where it will die.
 
There are a number of advantages and disadvantages for each type of finish.

The advantages (for me) of shellac are several.

For toys, it is a non-toxic finish.
I can wipe it on, so no brush cleanup.
Once dry, no odor.
Dry to touch in about 20 minutes and can be recoated shortly thereafter.

Disadvantages (for me).

It has gotten expensive and SealCoat has gotten difficult to find.
It is not particularly durable.
Need adequate ventilation while applying

It would probably make a good thread if we had “pros and cons” for all of the finishing options. 

Additional “cons” for shellac:

Alcohol is a shellac solvent.  So any surface where alcoholic drinks might be placed is at risk.

For many types of shellac, you have to “brew your own”, that is buy shellac in the solid form and dissolve it in alcohol.

Additional pros:

Available in several tints (but note no tint is added, the tint is the natural color of that specific type of shellac.

Additional coats of shellac dissolve into the previous coat so effectively you end up with one layer of finish.  An advantage if you are buffing to a high shine.

Shellac is an effective odor sealer.  If your cat peed on the carpet and it smelled bad, and after ripping out the carpet it still smelled bad, you could either replace the sub flooring (an expensive proposition) or you could lay down two or more coats of shellac.

At any rate, no one finish is all things for all purposes.  You have to list the most important things to you and see which finish meets most or all of your requirements.
 
onocoffee said:
[member=2726]Tom Gensmer[/member] - Thanks for the link. Listened to the podcast today. Lot's to think about and reconsider.

A takeaway that I have from the podcast that Tom mentioned is that we don't need to finish things like cutting boards and the discussion on why is most fascinating - that bacteria absorbed into the raw board will be wicked away from the surface where it will die.

^^snip^^

Hi [member=82312]onocoffee[/member] ,

Thanks for the feedback, and yes I thought it was a terribly interesting interview, I'm a little surprised it didn't more of a stir here on the FOG.

Regarding your original question, I have used the Saicos interior oil on a few projects, and I found that it was the least-ambering of the different oils I've tried. I believe Saicos is derived from the Thistle plant, whereas most others (Rubio, for instance) are linseed based.

Alternatively, have you considered just leaving the piece raw/unfinished?
 
Regarding the Fine Woodworking podcast interview, it’s quite long and the bit about finishes on cutting boards starts at 41:20.
But the wood expert is charismatic, funny, and multitalented so it’s definitely not a drag to take in.

The take away as far as the safety of cuttings boards, porous wood is best (red oak better than white), lighter colored woods are safer than dark (fruit woods are the safest), and glue lines are bad. Just a plain unfinished slab of naked wood (just about any wood) is best.

Rinse with water and allow to dry all over. Wash with soapy water if a lot of fat gets on the board. Cut vegetables before the meat because the vegetables are more likely to contaminate the cutting board and any bad stuff the meat picks up afterwards will be killed by heat when the meat is cooked.

They also said if you’re in the business of selling cutting boards and your market demands some kind of finish just use ordinary wax because it will quickly wear off allowing full restoration of the wood’s bacteria killing ability. Just tell your custom not to re-wax unless they only use the cutting board for decoration.
 
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