Is this safe?
- Thread starter Packard
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usernumber1
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lol. i don't like anything about that setup. im sure its fine
AlexThePalex
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Occasionally I have done cuts like this, I never had a problem.
The operation in that manner (assuming the bit in the WP photo was a straight one) was similar to setting the fence away from the bit on a router table, and then feeding the work in between the bit and the fence.
Would I do that? Of course not, even if making light cuts. When I do rabbets, I either use a rabbeting bit, or cut the rabbets before assembly with a straight bit on the router table.
Would I do that? Of course not, even if making light cuts. When I do rabbets, I either use a rabbeting bit, or cut the rabbets before assembly with a straight bit on the router table.
chrisrosenb
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I am sure I have done it at some point early on before there were good rabbeting bits with ball bearing pilots. I do not see any reason to do it now.
It seems like using a fence and a miter gage on the table saw at the same time. If it goes off the edge guide a bit while pushing forward it looks to me like it would jam and make the router scoot across the room.
I would have used a guided bit from the inside and cleaned up the corners with a chisel.
I would have used a guided bit from the inside and cleaned up the corners with a chisel.
Cheese
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Packard said:
I wouldn't be that bold as to make that statement...that's what those massive biceps are for. [smile]
Besides, it's all about mechanical advantage/leverage and a small 1/2" diameter router bit will not be capable of propelling a 9# router across the room. It could, if not controlled leave a nasty divot in the wood, and that would be unfortunate but it has been done this way in a pinch many times before
Just remember, if you're uncomfortable with the routing method that you're using, then maybe it's time to rethink the methodology you're using.
Generally a bad idea. I've done similar thing few times, but in a situation when I had little choice and I took multiple precautions to control the workpiece and tool. The first time I attempted this the piece got trapped and launched across the room like a spear.
notenoughcash
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doesnt look very safe, and as others pointed out, i would have used a bearing bit.
JonnyBBravo
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I’ve used this router at a guys shop as what it’s what he had. I’ve never had it run away on me. It’s not the most stable edge guide but I wouldn’t hold the guide like that. I would make a firm grasp to the side. So if anything went wrong my fingers do find a way to center of the the bit by the way this person is holding it in the picture. Mainly used this to cut on MDF. All I’ll say is the edge guide not pressed firm against the edge you will have slight drift and also tilt if it’s not supported well. It’s not the best edge guide for it but those are my experiences using it.
Crazyraceguy
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There are several issues here as most have pointed out. The trapped cut though, is the least of them as I see it. A trapped cut like that on a solidly held, single piece, that is made in the "conventional cut" direction and a light cut, would be somewhat acceptable. Not ideal, there are better ways, but it would work.
The problems the I really see here are far more severe.
First is the inside cut of an enclosed space. The is no way to start this cut "off the work" when it is internal like that, other than plunging straight down, not good.
Second is the closed space itself. What do they think is going to happen when you get to the corners?
Third is the fence itself. Those have a opening that is intended to straddle the bit, much like a router table. They work just fine when doing that, but if you have any more off-set than that, you need to attach a single piece to span that gap. The router will "fall into" that gap when it gets to the end. At minimum this spoils the cut, and worse may injure the user and or tool too.
These fences, from all brands, have holes in them intended for screws to hold on and auxiliary face to solve this issue.
The nicer brands (Festool) have sliding parts to accomplish this same goal.
Either way, this is lousy advertising. Someone should have seen that this was bad and definitely not the intended use of this edge guide. Normally they are hyper-vigilant about safety things and warnings that pretty much anyone already knows, or wouldn't do anyway. They all give warnings that people read and say "well that's silly" or "who would do that?"
The problems the I really see here are far more severe.
First is the inside cut of an enclosed space. The is no way to start this cut "off the work" when it is internal like that, other than plunging straight down, not good.
Second is the closed space itself. What do they think is going to happen when you get to the corners?
Third is the fence itself. Those have a opening that is intended to straddle the bit, much like a router table. They work just fine when doing that, but if you have any more off-set than that, you need to attach a single piece to span that gap. The router will "fall into" that gap when it gets to the end. At minimum this spoils the cut, and worse may injure the user and or tool too.
These fences, from all brands, have holes in them intended for screws to hold on and auxiliary face to solve this issue.
The nicer brands (Festool) have sliding parts to accomplish this same goal.
Either way, this is lousy advertising. Someone should have seen that this was bad and definitely not the intended use of this edge guide. Normally they are hyper-vigilant about safety things and warnings that pretty much anyone already knows, or wouldn't do anyway. They all give warnings that people read and say "well that's silly" or "who would do that?"
Banana
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I'm sure if you contact Woodpeckers they will point out, with what fingers they have left, that all the safety warnings are present in the image:
1) Operator only has two fingers
2) the extreme cut chatter on the part of the oak frame (bottom right of inside of 'L' in photo).
1) Operator only has two fingers
2) the extreme cut chatter on the part of the oak frame (bottom right of inside of 'L' in photo).
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I am truly surprised that this image appeared on the Woodpeck.com site
at all, unless it was to show an unsafe method of using a trim router.
What was this image intended to illustrate? I don't see a Woodpeckers
product in the photo which is what makes me question it's use.
Edit: found it.https://www.woodpeck.com/blog/stylish-bathroom-vanity.html
at all, unless it was to show an unsafe method of using a trim router.
What was this image intended to illustrate? I don't see a Woodpeckers
product in the photo which is what makes me question it's use.
Edit: found it.https://www.woodpeck.com/blog/stylish-bathroom-vanity.html
I did not notice the chatter, but that looks like junk.
If I were doing this, I would use a bearing rabbeting bit and placed a piece of stock inside the frame the same thickness of the frame to support the router. I would move that support piece as required to complete the job.
My comment earlier that it would scoot the router across the room was hyperbole. I did expect that it would want to move at its pace instead of mine. I suspect that is part of why the chatter appeared.
I would also note that stapling the rattan from behind is the Ikea hack method. The traditional method uses reed splines and is applied to the exposed side.
This is the traditional method:
If I were doing this, I would use a bearing rabbeting bit and placed a piece of stock inside the frame the same thickness of the frame to support the router. I would move that support piece as required to complete the job.
My comment earlier that it would scoot the router across the room was hyperbole. I did expect that it would want to move at its pace instead of mine. I suspect that is part of why the chatter appeared.
I would also note that stapling the rattan from behind is the Ikea hack method. The traditional method uses reed splines and is applied to the exposed side.
This is the traditional method:
squall_line
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If you think that's a problem, check out the photo right before it. Plunging a Domino into a piece of stock whilst fingertips are on the immediate backside of the material being plunged.
I'm not sure if it matters to anyone on here whether or not Woodpecker's has a disclaimer on their website about these sorts of things; that's for lawyers to sort out if it ever gets that far.
To think that we all have the time to be having this discussion in the first place...
I'm not sure if it matters to anyone on here whether or not Woodpecker's has a disclaimer on their website about these sorts of things; that's for lawyers to sort out if it ever gets that far.
To think that we all have the time to be having this discussion in the first place...
Safe? No, it's clearly sketchy. Use at your own risk. Your mileage may vary. Consult your doctor before taking this medication. No purchase necessary. Void where prohibited.
I wouldn't let anybody do that if I were supervising. But I can't say I've never, or would never, do something like this if it solved a problem. I would be reeeeeeally careful though. Definitely take small bites and turn off the radio for this cut
This does present a solution to a problem- you can reach the inside of the corner. If you flip the fence to the inside, you'll have to stop short. Yes, a bearing-guided bit would solve the same problem without the sketchiness..... but only if you have the right size. If I *needed* to make something like this happen, I'd remove the bulk of the waste with something NOT sketchy, and just do the last bit with the sketchy part. That would remove the risk CRG pointed out about a clean start.
On the other hand, I've been looking for a good reason to justify the MFS I bought last year....
I wouldn't let anybody do that if I were supervising. But I can't say I've never, or would never, do something like this if it solved a problem. I would be reeeeeeally careful though. Definitely take small bites and turn off the radio for this cut
This does present a solution to a problem- you can reach the inside of the corner. If you flip the fence to the inside, you'll have to stop short. Yes, a bearing-guided bit would solve the same problem without the sketchiness..... but only if you have the right size. If I *needed* to make something like this happen, I'd remove the bulk of the waste with something NOT sketchy, and just do the last bit with the sketchy part. That would remove the risk CRG pointed out about a clean start.
On the other hand, I've been looking for a good reason to justify the MFS I bought last year....
Crazyraceguy
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That chatter is actually tearout from cutting the wrong direction. This is especially bad with splintery species like Oak and hickory, but having the cutter exit on unsupported material will do this.
A very shallow climb-cut, similar to how dovetails are cut with a jig, is the best way to avoid this kind of tearout. Many people are sketched out by climb cuts too though.
Personally, I would rather see this done before assembly, on a router table, but you can't always have that "best case scenario".
A very shallow climb-cut, similar to how dovetails are cut with a jig, is the best way to avoid this kind of tearout. Many people are sketched out by climb cuts too though.
Personally, I would rather see this done before assembly, on a router table, but you can't always have that "best case scenario".
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