It shouldn’t be this hard to get a flat tire fixed.

[Packard]

My car did not come with a spare tire.  I found out today that it was an extra-cost option.

In 2019, I bought a brand new Chrysler Pacifica.  I specified that I wanted all the available safety options and leather seats. 

The dealer located one for me.  It seemed fine.  It had a lot of options that I did not need like rear seat DVD player and a vacuum cleaner. 

I don’t know what I paid for it.  I traded in two vehicles and charged the balance ($750.00) to my AMEX card.  It had a sticker price of $44,000.00. 

And it did not come with a spare tire.  [eek]

The tire sensor showed yesterday that I was down to 14 pounds in one tire.  I aired it up and went to the local tire store and they said they would “squeeze me in”.  I left after 3 hours.  Nothing done.

I went to Firestone, and they scheduled me in for noon on Wednesday.  I ordered a spare tire online ($96.00), delivery on Wednesday.

It is cheaper to get a brand new tire than have the Chrysler dealer repair the old one.  New York State does not permit plugging to repair a tire.  The tire has to be patched from the inside.  And Chrysler insists on replacing the tire sensor on all tire changes.  (Other dealers will check to see if the old one still works.) 

I have a second car, so I am still mobile.  But if I didn’t, I would not be comfortable driving a car that was losing 26 pounds of air pressure overnight.

The Chrysler dealer should have told me about the absence of a spare.  I would have ordered one the day I took delivery.  (Though I suspect it would have cost a lot more than the $96.00 it cost me on Amazon.

When did they start leaving spare tires off the standard equipment list?

 

[bobtskutter]

This has been going on in Europe for over a decade.  BMW started it, by offering their cars with run flat tyres.
It's a way of saving weight, and manufacturing cost.

I had a VW Touran that didn't have a spare, so I bought one and carried it round in the boot (which is what we call the Trunk in Europe).

Some cars come with a compressor and "magic goo" (sealant) that you can inject into the tyre.  If you do that and then go to a local tyre depot they'll probably tell you the tyre is ruined  because the sealant unbalances it.  They may even charge you a clean up fee if the sealant pours out over their equipment.

If you're unlucky enough to get a nail in the side wall, or near the side wall, the sealant does nothing.

I hate cars with no spare wheel! 

Bob

 

[smorgasbord]

Get a Nealy repair kit and do most  repairs yourself.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Yeah, they went from "space saver" spares to a few alternatives in recent years. Some have totally deflated tires, with a can of pressurized sealant, some others have nothing at all. Apparently, your AAA membership and cell phone are sufficient?
It's all about saving weight and cutting costs at the same time. Initially it was to help meet fuel efficiency standards, now a days it seems to be about counteracting the added weight of all of the modern "stuff" (screens, multiple computers, cameras, etc) Plus all of the insulation and sound deadeners.
Modern cars are a lot heavier than older ones, even though they were generally much larger.

 

[Cheese]

When did they start leaving spare tires off the standard equipment list?

Fairly recently.................only about 15 years ago.  [eek]

I believe the movement originally started about 30 years ago with the Corvette. I purchased a new 40th anniversary Corvette and it came factory equipped with run-flat tires. At the time, the tires for a Corvette were larger on the rear than on the front and they were  also rotationally directional. So, choosing a proper spare to lug around for that car was literally impossible.

Fast forward 15 years...tire construction has improved to the point that unless you go off-roading daily, the need for a spare tire is virtually nonexistent. It's just another 50# of ballast you need to haul around. And that all has an impact on the EPA gas rating.

He11, within a few years, the car jack and tire iron will be jettisoned as well.

 

[Vondawg]

Agreed…most people these days have some kind of road service and never touch tire or jack

 

[Packard]

Agreed…most people these days have some kind of road service and never touch tire or jack

I have AAA road service.  He was the one that discovered that I had no spare.  All they will do is mount a spare.  They won’t repair the tire.

NY State does not allow plugging tires.  I used to carry a plugging kit and if it was a nail that did the deed, I would pull the nail, plug it and fill it with air without ever removing the wheel.

I ordered an aftermarket spare ($96.00 + tax).  It will arrive on Wednesday.  My regular mechanic will be back on Monday.  I’m sure he will be able to fix it. 

During the pandemic, when my car was in an accident, my insurance covered 30 days of car rental.  I made the mistake of bringing the car to Chrysler for the repairs.  This was during the pandemic with all the supply chain issues, and Chrysler could not get the needed parts and could not tell me when they could. 

I offered to get the parts as “used” (they were mounting brackets), but Chrysler is not permitted to use aftermarket parts or salvage parts.  So I bought a used car from my Brother-in-Law, which I still have.  So that car came in handy again.  I’m glad I have a “spare” car. 

 

[Crazyraceguy]

You would think that they would allow darn near anything (plugging) to get a car off of the road? That "temporary" fix could very well save lives. The old space-saver tires were intended for the same thing, get off of the road, drive slower, and get it fixed properly.
As long as the plug is truly temporary, I don't see a problem. The thing is people would ignore it. This space saver is visibly obvious, a plug wouldn't be, unless there was some kind of recording/reporting method that would be required of professionals (AAA, etc)
Again, the only real issue here is safety, so if the law could be connected to causing a crash because of a plugged tire? Might be hard enough to prove, that they won't bother?

 

[smorgasbord]

From what I can tell, that's not true. There have been bills, but none have gone though everything needed to become law:
https://www.tirereview.com/tire-repair-law-in-n-y-dead-rma-to-continue-push/

 

[Packard]

I found a copy of the legislation. It says that the that the Transportation Committee voted on passage 14 in favor and 0 against.

All this from 2012.  I did not find anything definitive.  I do know that the tire shops I’ve been to over the past 10 years have all claimed that they were not allowed to plug.

I will check with my mechanic tomorrow.
https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2011/s7082#:~:text=Repairs%20are%20limited%20to%20the,plug%2C%20must%20be%20applied%20to

 

[smorgasbord]

From your link:

[attachimg=1]

Governor needs to sign it, and it's nowhere close to that, yet.

 

[AstroKeith]

In the UK, puncture repairs are possible but only under strict circumstances.

Much of this is due to the likelihood of sidewall damage. The tyre must be removed from the rim, inspected by a professional, the hole is reamed and cleaned, and only plugged (from the inside) if the puncture is in the centre region of the tread.

My Mustang has large tyres and are different front to back, so I have a canister repair system.

 

[Packard]

From your link:

[attachimg=1]

Governor needs to sign it, and it's nowhere close to that, yet.

The Chrysler dealer insists on making repairs from the inside of the tire.  That could be because Chrysler (corporate) wants one set of rules to apply for all dealerships in all states. 

Or they could be doing it because it is more profitable. 

Their process is far more expensive.

1.  Remove wheel from car.
2.  Locate the leak
3.  Remove tire from wheel.
4.  Apply the patch
5.  Re-mount the tire
6.  Replace the air pressure sending unit
7.  Fill with air
8.  Balance the tire

Compared with:

1.  locate the leak (sometimes easy, if a nail puncture is the problem.
2.  Plug
3.  Inflate

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

When I was learning to drive, my father shared the following advice. I forget his exact wording, but the message is what matters:

Every couple of years there is a tragic story in the news of a motorist or some well-meaning stranger who is killed while helping another motorist change a tire on the side of a highway or busy road. I believe my father even saw a few cases come through the ER while he was in residency. Based on what he saw, his advice was that if I ever got a flat tire, just keep driving on it. Slow down of course, but keep driving on the wheel long enough to get off the highway, and on to a residential street. Even if the tire is completely disintegrated and you're just riding on the wheel, just keep driving on the shoulder until you get to a residential neighborhood. Once in a neighborhood, find a way to contact a tow truck.

He ended his advice with something to the effect of: "Tires and wheels are replaceable. Motors are replaceable. Cars are replaceable. You are not replaceable."

I've since shared the above advice with my spouse, telling her I will of course drop what I'm doing to help her if she ever has car troubles, but that I'll never change a tire on a highway. I'm happy to follow her in my van with my hazards flashing, while she's driving (on the rim, if necessary) to a residential neighborhood.

On a side note, I never cease to be shocked by how many people immediately get out of their cars after an accident in icy- or slippery- conditions. Every time I see it, I look around for cameras, thinking I'm driving by the set for the latest "Final Destination" film....

 

[Packard]

So car manufacturers are eliminating spare tires in an effort to save lives?

Does that apply to roads with a wide shoulder?  A large grassy area that is substantially off of the roadway?

I did see a TV show where they showed the latest in non-pneumatic tires.  They featured a conventional rubber tread, but the rest of the structure was injection molded flexible plastic.

I see that they are currently available at a bit over $700.00 each.

Several options are now available.
https://www.google.com/search?clien...a654&sxsrf=ADLYWIKUisOfvDoGeKC9CD-Kke3aa2WQ1w:1733148259971&q=airless+tires+for+cars&udm=2&fbs=AEQNm0Aa4sjWe7Rqy32pFwRj0UkWd8nbOJfsBGGB5IQQO6L3J03RPjGV0MznOJ6Likin94pT_oR1DTSof42bOBxoTNxGeB1pS5_mub79WlyOO98XhEgJ5ByfFkeFUd9hlGBCmUZgrzLESyrkqGBL7osK5ZH3-0drzcH2VIMmwLRButbs-cMHhV8leQ--AYHsqw2WSrddKuHyCX6iowNOKZDTcJOO0G_14g&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjEs4OzoImKAxVhjIkEHUMKDkIQtKgLegQIFRAB&biw=1128&bih=711&dpr=2#vhid=3ggwssqZGog_qM&vssid=mosaic

 

[Packard]

My mechanic is back from visiting with relatives for Thanksgiving.

I have an 8:00 appointment tomorrow to have the flat fixed. 

If it was not a holiday weekend, I would have simply gotten the tire fixed and this thread would not have existed.

 

[squall_line]

Even the plug kits are only intended to be temporary until a proper internal patch can be applied.  There is nothing that the State of New York can do to prevent a private citizen from plugging a flat tire, either at home or on the side of the road.

You can order a spare tire for a vehicle, but you may find that there is no dedicated molded body panel or securing hardware designed to accommodate it.

 

[Packard]

Even the plug kits are only intended to be temporary until a proper internal patch can be applied.  There is nothing that the State of New York can do to prevent a private citizen from plugging a flat tire, either at home or on the side of the road.

You can order a spare tire for a vehicle, but you may find that there is no dedicated molded body panel or securing hardware designed to accommodate it.

Yeah, but it is a van with a flat floor and no rear seats so it can accommodate a 4’ x 8’ sheet of plywood laying flat on the floor.

I didn’t think of it until this afternoon, but I wonder if the Chrysler minivan has the same bolt pattern as my Chrysler 300.  The 300 has a spare.  I’ll find out tomorrow.

I’ll be pretty pissed at myself if sedan’s spare fit the van and I didn’t realize it.

 

[Cheese]

I didn’t think of it until this afternoon, but I wonder if the Chrysler minivan has the same bolt pattern as my Chrysler 300.  The 300 has a spare.  I’ll find out tomorrow.

I’ll be pretty ticked at myself if sedan’s spare fit the van and I didn’t realize it.

Well not to bestow the crown of shame on you Packard...but Chevy bolt patterns have always been the same and they are different from Ford bolt patterns which have also been the same. I can only assume that Chizler bolt patterns are the same and probably different from either Chevy or Ford. I had a Chrysler 300M that I loved but I never took notice of the bolt lug pattern. My guess is it was metric because the car was made in Germany and most of their components came from Europe.

The larger issue with the wheels once you get past the lug bolt pattern, is wheel/tire diameter, tire width and most importantly wheel offset. Wheel offset could be a game changer especially between a 300 and a van. My guess is it will NOT fit ...but I'll be waiting for your input.  [smile]

 

[squall_line]

The 300C has a 5x115 bolt pattern, 7.5 or 8" wide wheels, and a 24mm offset.

The Town & Country has a 5x127 (5x5) bolt pattern, 6.5-8" wheels, and a 40mm offset.

The Pacifica also has a 5x127 bolt pattern, 7 or 7.5" wheels, and a 40mm offset.

They shouldn't be compatible.