Jointer Accident --- WARNING GRAPHIC IMAGES

[ChuckM]

Hi Jim,

When handling short pieces, you can use the hold-down clamp with one of these methods:

1) (the stick shown here is the old version)

2)https://www.instagram.com/p/BfsStD-jeeo/ (Note: To use the bridging method, the spacer need not be as thick as the workpiece as shown in the video, and there is no need to make a fixed jig like that. Simply place a scrap (as thick as or slightly thicker than the work and lay a "bridge" between the spacer and work. Force down on the bridge with the hold-down clamp. This way, you don't need jigs of different thicknesses.)

3) Start with a longer piece with which you can use the hold-down clamp, and crosscut it to final length

I have never ever placed my hand inside the "danger zone" using my Kapex whether it is cutting long or short pieces, which is a common sighting in countless woodworking videos.

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

Regarding the Kapex quick clamps, I must admit, I have the luxury of having two, and I quickly got into the habit of using two, one each side, and found this a very safe and reassuring way to work. Negating risking the free hand holding the workpiece, makes a big difference.

Regarding the planers, in the UK many of us use planer thicknesser machines, and when I’m using the top planer facility, I always try and set the guard fairly close to the width of the workpiece, to keep as much of the knives covered as possible. Also using pushers at all times.
One of my colleagues has a bad habit of running timber through his, without the guard in place!
Whenever I have winced and mentioned it to him, he says I’m set in my ways and it works for me.
I see it as an unnecessary risk but, he’s old enough to make his own decisions.

Some just don’t take into account of the risks. Similar to some will wear PPE, masks, goggles etc, and some won’t bother.
I was on a site around Christmas, we were installing some real big oak bi folding doors. After lunch, a gang of Eastern European guys turned up to do some paving.
One of them, fired up a Stihl petrol disc cutter, and proceeded to cut slabs almost next to where we were working. No mask, no goggles, no ear defenders, wearing trainers and shorts.
Obviously I had to have a word with him, when I mentioned about PPE, he said I’m not bothered. Maybe so I said but, I am not breathing in the dust, and risking my eyes and ears. He said no problem, you put on the PPE!

So in the end, I suggested he return the next day after we’d finished, he wasn’t happy but, as they had another job to go too, he grudgingly agreed.
The actual site agent, who was also the health and safety executive for the site, stood and watched the whole episode, and never said a word to them?

In honesty, my ears are shot (tinnitus) but I like to try and save what hearing I have left.
Back in the day, we didn’t know any better but, there’s no excuse nowadays.
I don’t think those guys were being awkward, they really just didn’t care about their safety, and never considered ours?

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
One of my colleagues has a bad habit of running timber through his, without the guard in place!

In the same vein, some accident was known to have happened where a woodworker's palm was destroyed because he pushed a board through a dado blade on the table saw bare hand instead of using any push block. The board he was pushing kicked back while his hand was right over the spinning cutter! (I seldom use a dado blade, but I have the dado cartridge and ZCI just in case for my SawStop.)

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

Snip.
One of my colleagues has a bad habit of running timber through his, without the guard in place!

In the same vein, some accident was known to have happened where a woodworker's palm was destroyed because he pushed a board through a dado blade on the table saw bare hand instead of using any push block. The board he was pushing kicked back while his hand was right over the spinning cutter!

Ouch!  [scared]

 

[butzla]

Snip.
One of my colleagues has a bad habit of running timber through his, without the guard in place!

In the same vein, some accident was known to have happened where a woodworker's palm was destroyed because he pushed a board through a dado blade on the table saw bare hand instead of using any push block. The board he was pushing kicked back while his hand was right over the spinning cutter!

Ouch!  [scared]

I once knew a guy who wouldn’t wear safety glasses when using the chop saw, he’d close his eyes when making the cut!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[FestitaMakool]

[member=3220]Jim Kirkpatrick[/member]
I just noticed, are you left handed?
Reason is I saw that you have pictured the hold down clamp on the right side of the saw.

The risk zone is the hand not pulling the saw down... I now practice holding my free hand (left one) outside of the clamp for extra support. I have too many times holding closer (without clamp) felt the wood piece knock hard in my hand if the saw blade becomes jammed. It’s the force combined with the sudden surprises of both the knock and sound that makes you move your hand instinctively - and that could well be in direction of the saw blade..

 

[butzla]

[member=3220]Jim Kirkpatrick[/member]
I just noticed, are you left handed?
Reason is I saw that you have pictured the hold down clamp on the right side of the saw.

The risk zone is the hand not pulling the saw down... I now practice holding my free hand (left one) outside of the clamp for extra support. I have too many times holding closer (without clamp) felt the wood piece knock hard in my hand if the saw blade becomes jammed. It’s the force combined with the sudden surprises of both the knock and sound that makes you move your hand instinctively - and that could well be in direction of the saw blade..

I am right handed.  I'm guessing you've never cut such a thick heavy piece of hardwood like the picture with unsupported table like mine.  That is to say, the lumber is only being supported by the puny table of the Kapex and a roller, 4' out.  So the bulk of the weight of the lumber is out beyond the roller.  So the danger is when you cut through or just before you cut through all the way, the right hand piece see-saws off the far end of the roller. this causes the blade to bind and kick back and is a very scary feeling.  I cringe when I make the final inch of the cut even in 2 passes which is what I usually do for wood thicker than 3/4". 

As soon as I put the hold down on right side it was a game changer.  No more binding saw blade, no more kick back and no more heavy piece of lumber see-sawing up and onto the floor.  I could cut a 1" x 12" thick piece of oak in 1 pass if I wanted too.
I'm sure it's great on the left side, but for this instance the right makes more sense.

 

[FestitaMakool]

That’s good to hear..
I agree with you, the size and weight of the lumber makes a huge difference. The piece you have in the photo wouldn’t lift much. And you are absolutely right: That kind of lumber you have there, or similar for that instance, is highly expensive and exotic here..
You’re quite lucky over there.. spoiled by choices of wood.

The shorter and lighter the piece of wood, the more dangerous. But, heavy lumps can make the saw jump and sound quite bad.
I’ve cut quite large pieces of pine, badly supported, fearing the saw head jump heavily. But I’ve learned to be more cautious. This topic is nevertheless a very good reminder to think twice and cut once - safe as can be.

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

Snip.
One of my colleagues has a bad habit of running timber through his, without the guard in place!

In the same vein, some accident was known to have happened where a woodworker's palm was destroyed because he pushed a board through a dado blade on the table saw bare hand instead of using any push block. The board he was pushing kicked back while his hand was right over the spinning cutter!

Ouch!  [scared]

I once knew a guy who wouldn’t wear safety glasses when using the chop saw, he’d close his eyes when making the cut!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

As crazy as that sounds, I have seen similar many times. It amazes me the bad, or more so dangerous habits people develop. Saying that, I’ve probably developed a few myself. [blink]

 

[peter halle]

Decades ago I read an article about shop accidents in either Fine Woodworking or Fine Homebuilding.  It was interesting to read that a large number of accidents occurred after eating.  Just some food for thought.

Peter

 

[FestitaMakool]

Eye protection is essential, and are now standard issue for me, as I’ve become far sighted I now wear safety goggles with diopter.
As “milling” this with a cutting disc on a Dremel, closing my eyes is not an option, covering them yes! And now also with low risk work!

[attachimg=1]

 

[Gregor]

Regarding the Kapex quick clamps, I must admit, I have the luxury of having two, and I quickly got into the habit of using two, one each side, and found this a very safe and reassuring way to work. Negating risking the free hand holding the workpiece, makes a big difference.

Do not use both at the same time, doing that would massively increase the chance of the blade binding and kickback.
This isn't personal but more to prevent the ones to whom the idea of having two is a new one from operating them in a dangerous manner.

Though it's nice to have two, to not having to move it over to the side you need it (which, like with pre-USB-C plugs, ist mostly the other side, greetings from Murphy).

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

Thank you for your concern but, I have been a joiner all my working life, 40 odd years plus. So I can make quick safety assessments, and when operating with two clamps, I would only do so knowing the workpiece is supported properly along it’s entire length both left and right.
Also by the time much of my stock reaches the mitre saw it has been machined flat and true before being secured.
It’s then secured with the clamps, and if there should be any warpage not allowing the timber flat, it would be shimmed steady.

Two clamps is not always my method, only when the size/type and thickness of the timber calls for it, which in honesty is often, do I use this method.
The main thing using this method, is at least the free hand is out of the way. So even if there were an issue and there were a kick back damaging the machine, the limbs are safe and out of the way.

My method of cut means checking as I cut for binding, and a non rushed approach.
Sometimes using one clamp on uneven timber will allow the off cut to drop or even spring up slightly, which as you will know normally results in binding, and the consequences that follow.
Much or most of our mitre saw work is precision based, so we are always mindful of movement.

The two clamp method is very popular both on this site and in general. I only adapted this method after becoming a Kapex owner, and having use of these great clamps. My previous saws were and are still used with just one, clamp, and there are kickbacks every so often with that style but, not something I’ve suffered since using two clamps on the  Kapex.

Just a few weeks ago on site, one of my employees was using one of our Makita mitre saws cutting roof joists.
He wasn’t using any clamps as many don’t when working against the clock, he had a kick back. It smashed a lump out of the blade guard, the piece that broke away from the guard fired like a pellet into the plasterboard and embedded itself. Luckily it wasn’t his face or head.
I also found the blade to me damaged too.

He said it scared him and he learned a lesson but, I’ve been told the next day, equipped with another saw, he was doing the self same thing again, and he has about 15 years of experience behind him?

The thing is, in the real world, many are chasing money to earn, and things get overlooked on the safety side, so the emphasis is them getting the work done to get paid.
I’ve lost count of how many times I see people building cut roofs without any clamping. The saw sitting uneven, possibly wobbling, even saws with the blade guard smashed off and missing  [scared]

I often shudder watching people cut soaking warped pressure treated timber, throw a blunt blade in the equation too, and there’s a recipe for disaster.
Not sure how the health and safety is now in your country but, when I worked there many years ago, I found it was monitored and enforced much better than in the Uk, and from I know of Germany, I’d imagine it’s even more so now?

In the UK currently, I have to be honest and say that it’s very lapse, even on large sites.
You see extension leads trailing across site, some even 240v, some with joins repaired with just insulation tape, often on wet ground. People walking around in casual clothes etc, etc. The only thing they seem to enforce is hi viz clothing and hard hats?

Luckily for me now, much of my work is done in the workshop away from these crazy people!  [big grin] [wink]

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

Decades ago I read an article about shop accidents in either Fine Woodworking or Fine Homebuilding.  It was interesting to read that a large number of accidents occurred after eating.  Just some food for thought.

Peter

You make a good point there Peter.
Much of the time I will take a packed lunch to work and eat throughout the day. Sometimes though, if there’s a few of us working together, we push the boat out and get some serious eats from a take away.
Whenever we do this, I notice we are all very lethargic afterwards, and often seen people slip into a nap too. [doh]

 

[Gregor]

Thank you for your concern but, I have been a joiner all my working life, 40 odd years plus.

As what you do to yourself isn't my problem: sorry to have bothered you. Nevertheless I hope you stay safe.

For the rest, I was thinking abouthttps://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?pretty;board=festool-how-to;topic=kapex-hold-downs-both-sides.0 and the day when internal tension in a workpiece (that prior to the cut looked to be milled perfectly flat, true and fully supported on all sides) produced mildly interesting (though completely unwelcome) kickback on my KS 120. Since that day I only use one clamp a time, as it seems to be the smarter idea. YMMV.

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

No really, you haven’t bothered me, and I am thankful for your concern.
As I say, I always assess the best I can, and even then, there’s no guarantees.
I have had kick back when using a single clamp but, as of yet not suffered any issue using two clamps, and know others that claim the same?

My own thoughts are the state of the workpiece, if the timber is warped or under stress and not flat, moist even, I wouldn’t even be using it for fabrication, let alone clamped to the mitre saw.
Most of our timber for fabricating, is machined flat hardwoods, and is always cut with a slow technique.
I just feel even if there were kick back using two clamps, at least the free arm/hand especially, and the hand on top of the handle, are away from harm, unlike when using a single, or no clamps.
If the Kapex were to get damaged, I could deal with that, spare parts for arms and hands are more difficult though.
As I mentioned earlier, although using two clamps is fairly often, it’s not all the time, only with longer lengths of timber if I’m working alone.
Next time out, I will take a closer look and maybe a video to see what’s happening using two clamps but, so far, it’s just nice accurate cutting.

Regards.

 

[martin felder]

I had a stupid accident several days ago where I was making a clamp rack on my router table and made a climb cut that banged the wood on my table with my finger in the mix.  It will heal, but it was stupid.  I should have known better. 


An interesting video for this thread.  The main reason I purchased a slider as my table saw along with pneumatic clamps to never have to stand behind the saw (once got a kickback on my Delta), never have to use the rip fence to guide the wood, and never have to move my hands anywhere near the blade.  I like those pneumatic clamps so much, I was thinking of a change in my miter saw so I can have the options of vertical and horizontal pneumatic clamps.

 

[butzla]

That was scary to watch and I knew it was coming!

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[Dusty.House]

Wow that’s very educational!!!!!

I watch all these Instagram videos with setups like this and I have never understood why people think they are special and this won’t happen to them.

One of the first times I used a dado blade a 24”x24” piece did something similar. Fortunately I was feeding from the side with two push blocks.

I have since sold my dado blade!

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[FestitaMakool]

Dado blades are not even allowed for sale here. I have seen a few warnings of why.