Kapex 120 EB Smoked, Slowed, Started Backup and Died

[blackemmons]

I've searched high and low but found nothing similar.
Turn on my Kapex KS 120 EB today and YIKES!  It wound up and as I started my cut it slowed dramatically and then stopped.  The smell of electrical burn was strong in the air.  I thought perhaps it was just some saw dust in the motor so I tried it again.  It did the same thing but it didn't last as long.  On the third try....nothing.
My first impression was brushes but upon removing them they are still at least a 1/2" of carbon beyond the holder.
I called Festool and described the issue and got the standard no help response of "send it in".
The person I spoke with in customer service wasn't even aware that the brushes are designed to shut the unit down when they wear out.
No suggestions from him except..... send it in.  I wish it was as easy as just returning a drill or sander.
Anyone had this issue and if so, any thing to look for, do I need to send it in to have it diagnosed or should I just replace it?
Thanks,        Jim Eller

 

[fin]

im in the uk... just for relevance and all that..

i was using my kapex on saturday morning. i had a quick job to finish off before i went for a day at the races with a local pub i go too. i went to work and estiamted the job would take less than an hour to complete. was basically just finishing off a couple of cuts on a skirting board job. (base board for you lot )

set my mitre saw up as usual. cut one piece at 22.5 degrees to join it onto another piece for a boxing in. worked absolutely spot on.

next piece i had to scribe to the floor first as it had been altered slightly by a floor layer with some screed. it was only a tiny little piece... so i scribed to the floor first then put the top of the skirt against the fence and cut the 45 degree so i could cut a scribe onto it.

i leant over and watched for the blade at the cut mark and all of a sidden i could smell electrical death..... i looked up and all the smoke was coming out of the motor housing. absolutely zero indication of any possible failure before hand.

i rang festool uk today and its all in hand theyre sending a box out for me to put the saw into for them to check it out.

mines a 2015 model so ill wait and see what they say cost wise. fingers crossed its not too expensive like

 

[blackemmons]

Thanks Fin.
Sounds similar and the same timing.  Maybe it's the location of the moon. [eek]
Mine was purchased in May 2012 so we are in the same age group also.
The customer service agent made no mention of sending shipping materials for return.  I kept the box for years and then one day it had to go.  Thanks for the replay.  Keep us updated if you would.        JimE

 

[squall_line]

I'm not sure what the search entailed, but there's all sorts of posts on the FOG, whether you use the built-in search tool or an outside search engine.

In any case, here's a pinned post from this sub-forum about how to replace the armature, which is the root cause in 90% of the cases:
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...es/detailed-kapex-armature-replacement-guide/

 

[blackemmons]

Yes, I did see that post and did print it.
I would like help on how to identify the problem before I just start changing out parts.
Thanks for the reply.                JimE

 

[Doug S]

im in the uk... just for relevance and all that..

i was using my kapex on saturday morning. i had a quick job to finish off before i went for a day at the races with a local pub i go too. i went to work and estiamted the job would take less than an hour to complete. was basically just finishing off a couple of cuts on a skirting board job. (base board for you lot )

set my mitre saw up as usual. cut one piece at 22.5 degrees to join it onto another piece for a boxing in. worked absolutely spot on.

next piece i had to scribe to the floor first as it had been altered slightly by a floor layer with some screed. it was only a tiny little piece... so i scribed to the floor first then put the top of the skirt against the fence and cut the 45 degree so i could cut a scribe onto it.

i leant over and watched for the blade at the cut mark and all of a sidden i could smell electrical death..... i looked up and all the smoke was coming out of the motor housing. absolutely zero indication of any possible failure before hand.

i rang festool uk today and its all in hand theyre sending a box out for me to put the saw into for them to check it out.

mines a 2015 model so ill wait and see what they say cost wise. fingers crossed its not too expensive like

I'd guess it could be around £230 with about £80 of that being for labour and return shipping so for me it's not worth trying to fix it yourself. Looking at my previous repair invoices from Festool I generally couldn't buy the parts for less than they charge and it would certainly cost more than £80 in my time to fix it plus if Festool do the repair it should be right.

I personally think Festool should be repairing all the burnt out Kapex for free even if they are 10+ years old, it is a known problem and just because it's an old saw doesn't mean it has done a lot of work. Sometimes I probably make more cuts in a day with my Kapex than a DIYer might make in a year so obviously the problem will show up in mine long before theirs.

 

[blackemmons]

Doug,
I did read quite a few, more than one would expect from a Festool brand product, issues about burn out.
Been thinking that is probably the thing to do.  Let them give me an estimate.  Perhaps I'll just purchase a new one and sell the other when it is repaired.
Thanks for the input.          JimE

 

[squall_line]

Just beware that if you send it in and they provide an estimate and you decline the work, they will send the tool back disassembled.  This is in their terms and conditions on the repair website, and I believe that they warn everyone about this during the process, but it's worth mentioning if you may be considering declining the repair/cost.

 

[blackemmons]

[eek]YIKES!! [eek]
Can one request they reassemble it?  For of course.
Thanks.

 

[ChuckM]

If you get the Kapex fixed with a new armature, there's no need to sell it and get a new one, because the core difference between an EB and an REB (new) is the armature (motor).

I agree with Doug that Festool should absorb the armature replacement costs for the EB regardless of age. Mine is an EB (2015), but I expect it to be fine even though I keep using it regularly -- hundreds of cuts recently involving ash, for example. As a precaution, I vac clean the motor (thru the top vent) after each use.

 

[blackemmons]

Thanks Chuck.  That is good news.  Depending on the replacement costs of course.
Ever had one done or know of costs for having one replaced at Festool?
If it's not close to the cost of a new one, 1599.99, it may be a valid option.
Thanks again for the information.                  JimE

 

[ChuckM]

Thanks Chuck.  That is good news.  Depending on the replacement costs of course.
Ever had one done or know of costs for having one replaced at Festool?
If it's not close to the cost of a new one, 1599.99, it may be a valid option.
Thanks again for the information.                  JimE

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/kapex-repair-costs/

 

[Cheese]

Thanks Chuck.  That is good news.  Depending on the replacement costs of course.
Ever had one done or know of costs for having one replaced at Festool?
If it's not close to the cost of a new one, 1599.99, it may be a valid option.
Thanks again for the information.                  JimE

Over the last 5-6 years I've seen replacement costs in the $275-$375 range minus shipping costs and any cardboard boxes that Festool supplies and touts as shipping containers. It's the shipping that can be the killer depending upon your distance from Lebanon. If you do the install yourself you can probably trim $100 off of that number. These numbers are all pretty fluid as while everyone feels obliged to weigh in when their Kapex crashes, few feel the same obligation to weigh in with the costs when it's been repaired.  [blink]

Whoops... prices have gone up a bit over the last several years.  [smile]  Current price on the field coil is $110.90, the end shield (armature assembly with bearing) is $262.10 and brushes are $31.20. So that's $404.20 just for parts. Festool checks everything over carefully and they usually find a couple of other parts that are also worn. Then add labor and shipping to & from.

 

[Max Fracas]

My 2014 Kapex died a few years ago. I posted about it then. Same systems as the OP. Total cost to repair was $615. Festool charged $375 for the repair and $60 to ship the saw back to me. I believe some of the repair parts were no cost. I paid $180 to ship the saw from Louisiana to Festool.

 

[blackemmons]

Spoke with the owner of my local Woodcraft store(Knoxville) yesterday.
I dropped it off their this morning.  He will box it up and ship to Festool.  Should go out today.  Then....time will tell.
If I can get it repaired at a "reasonable" cost, I will do it.  Then I have the option of using it like that or selling it for that price or the going rate and buy the new one he has.            Thanks to all.          JimE

 

[blackemmons]

FYI Follow up.
Woodcraft ship off my 2012 Kapex, got an estimate, got saw back yesterday and now I'm $747.39 plus tax lighter.
Sounds outrageous but when I break it down,  it's $62.28/yr for upkeep.  Probably cheaper than an extended warranty on a 2012 car and I didn't have to listen to Ice Tea to tell me what a good deal I was getting and how much he was going to save me. [laughing] [big grin]          JimE

 

[Lincoln]

FYI Follow up.
Woodcraft ship off my 2012 Kapex, got an estimate, got saw back yesterday and now I'm $747.39 plus tax lighter.
Sounds outrageous but when I break it down,  it's $62.28/yr for upkeep.  Probably cheaper than an extended warranty on a 2012 car and I didn't have to listen to Ice Tea to tell me what a good deal I was getting and how much he was going to save me. [laughing] [big grin]          JimE

You're right, that is outrageous. Especially for a known issue with the 110v models.

 

[ChuckM]

Definitely a disappointment since it was almost half the cost of a new REB. As much as I love my Kapex EB (Yr 2015), I wonder if I could stomach that kind of price tag for a repair.

 

[Cheese]

Definitely a disappointment since it was almost half the cost of a new REB. As much as I love my Kapex EB (Yr 2015), I wonder if I could stomach that kind of price tag for a repair.

Well Chuck with these new repair estimates...I'd definitely repair my Kapex if something happened however...I'd repair it myself and save $300-$400.

I don't think the current repair costs are out of line considering the parts cost alone is roughly $400, add in shipping to & from, packaging and Festool labor and the $750 number seems correct. However, it is half the value of a new saw which really hurts.  [eek]

If this was your car that needed to be fixed and that fix cost half the price of your new car, what would you do?

I really think special considerations should be given to the owners of older Kapex saws. There was a serious Kapex issue with the original saws as acknowledged by the fact that Festool released a new version of the saw to specifically eliminate the problem. An olive branch extended to the owners of the earlier Kapex saws would be a good thing and would undoubtedly bring others into the Festool fold considering how much the previous Kapex issue was widely known to the entire woodworking community.

And consider, that with every year that goes by, the price to repair the Kapex increases while the original owners only remember the price they originally paid for the saw. At some time most of the owners will just dump the dysfunctional Kapex and move on to something else...this is a serious issue that @Barbara Austel and [member=1350]sascha[/member] Menges need to think about.

 

[ChuckM]

Definitely a disappointment since it was almost half the cost of a new REB. As much as I love my Kapex EB (Yr 2015), I wonder if I could stomach that kind of price tag for a repair.

Well Chuck with these new repair estimates...I'd definitely repair my Kapex if something happened however...I'd repair it myself and save $300-$400.

I don't think the current repair costs are out of line considering the parts cost alone is roughly $400, add in shipping to & from, packaging and Festool labor and the $750 number seems correct. However, it is half the value of a new saw which really hurts.  [eek]

If this was your car that needed to be fixed and that fix cost half the price of your new car, what would you do?

I really think special considerations should be given to the owners of older Kapex saws. There was a serious Kapex issue with the original saws as acknowledged by the fact that Festool released a new version of the saw to specifically eliminate the problem. An olive branch extended to the owners of the earlier Kapex saws would be a good thing and would undoubtedly bring others into the Festool fold considering how much the previous Kapex issue was widely known to the entire woodworking community.

And consider, that with every year that goes by, the price to repair the Kapex increases while the original owners only remember the price they originally paid for the saw. At some time most of the owners will just dump the dysfunctional Kapex and move on to something else...this is a serious issue that @Barbara Austel and [member=1350]sascha[/member] Menges need to think about.

Fixing it yourself is definitely a better course of action, but I can't be sure if I could manage it based on the instructions floating around. If it were in a video format, I'd feel a lot more confident.

I consider it beyond economical repair if it costs half of the price of a brand new replacement.

You're right about repair cost taking up even a higher percentage for an older Kapex because the actual purchase price was lower, and makes the repair cost of over $700 even harder to swallow.