Kapex 120 vs 60

[shady]

Hi

I am looking for an accurate mitre saw for picture framing, and was looking at the Kapex's...

The KS60 seems to be well regarded, but comparing to the 120 it loses the handy angle adjustment knob on the right hand front rail (and the large scale at the rear) and also the extra capacity that the larger blade provides. I also like the twin laser over the shadow line.

Can any owners of either of these machines advise on how accurate and clean the mitres are for  something as intricate as a picture frame, and whether either would produce 100% perfect results with a fine blade.

I am thinking that maybe a smaller blade will be more accurate as less runout / flexing etc...

I was looking online for a side by side size comparison between the 60 & 120 to judge the size difference, but I  couldn't find any. The 120 looks quite a bit bigger overall, but I have seen people say there is not much in it. (I am drawn to the 60 due to the smaller footprint).

I am wondering if the 60 is better because it is a much newer design, as the 120 is about a decade old now. I saw some people had motor issues on the 120, but am I correct in thinking this was a 110V model issue (I am in UK so 240V here).

It is just for home use, and will no doubt lead to me making use of it outside of framing, such as remodeling the kitchen etc... which is why the 120 would be handy due to the larger blade.

Also, what is the benefit of having 60 degrees left and right on the Kapex 60 (apart from making triangles).

I didn't want to go down the mitre guillotine route.

Any other mitre saw suggestions outside of the Kapex 60 & 120 would be welcome. Most of my power tools are Dewalt and Makita, but I am not overly brand loyal, and don't mind the cost if the accuracy, quality and reliability is there.

Thanks

Adi...

 

[Sanderxpander]

Check out the KGSV 72 XAct SYM by Metabo if size is not an issue but accuracy and features are important. There's more calibration to do with the symmetrically movable fence but it's a cool option to have when bisecting angles accurately.

 

[kevinculle]

Can any owners of either of these machines advise on how accurate and clean the mitres are for something as intricate as a picture frame, and whether either would produce 100% perfect results with a fine blade.

I own an older KS120 and it is the most precise and versastile SCMS I have used but I don't think you'll find a 100% perfect saw.  Given the reported armature issues if I decided to get on I'd look for a used older one and not pay more than half of new retail.

 

[Gregor]

Invest some initial time for setup (fine adjust for lasers and all the angles and scales) and to make sacrificial back fences and zero clearance inserts and you'll end up with an excellent saw that is capable of doing tearout free cuts at great repeatability.

I likely won't have the armature problem (European user with sane mains voltages) with my 120 EB, but should it burn up I would get a new one without hesitation.

 

[shady]

Hi

Thanks for the responses guys.

The Metabo's fence looks interesting. It seems to be in the same ball park as the KS60 though. Hard to say without touching  one whether it is a more accurate beast.

I would  rather get a new Kapex with warranty than second hand. I think I will have to take a trip and check some of these saws out in the flesh  before deciding, or maybe even order both 120 & 60 online and take advantage of the 15 day trial period.

Thanks

Adi...

 

[Birdhunter]

I have been using the 120 Kapex for cutting hardwoods and exotics for many years and I’ve been very happy with the tool. Dust collection is excellent though not perfect.

Tearout can be sharply reduced by a sharp clean blade and a sacrificial fence. With a jig, you can probably get picture frame quality miters. I added a Betterly zero clearance insert and that improved tearout.

For safety, be absolutely sure to allow the blade to stop completely before lifting the saw head. You can get some nasty throwbacks from the cut offs by lifting the head with the blade spinning.

I look to my table saw and its many jigs to get perfect joints. I just don’t think of my Kapex (or any miter saw) as a precision joinery tool. The Kapex is darn good, but not equal to a good table saw.

If you buy one, be sure to thoroughly verify the bed sides sit flush to each other side to side and that the two fence sides line up perfectly. Do this before using the saw so it is easily returnable. The frame is a casting. All castings can move or not be ground accurately.

 

[Sanderxpander]

Both the KS60 and the Metabo have a little flex, especially on longer miters. A lot of it comes down to practice. It helps if you can make cuts straight down rather than with the head angled which to me speaks in favor of the Metabo's flexible fence.

 

[rst]

I use sacrificial .250 tempered masonite, as a base and vertical backer (I know, it's not masonite anymore, but it was in the 70s when I started using it).  I use spring clamps to hold the verticals and use a long enough piece for the base that it stays put with the pressure from the vertical.  I've used this method for all kinds of angle work although with Makita and the original Hitachi...sorry Festool, just to many horror stories to justify the price. (I know, it's not masonite anymore, but it was in the 70s when I started using it)

 

[Michael Kellough]

I use sacrificial .250 tempered masonite, as a base and vertical backer (I know, it's not masonite anymore, but it was in the 70s when I started using it).  I use spring clamps to hold the verticals and use a long enough piece for the base that it stays put with the pressure from the vertical.  I've used this method for all kinds of angle work although with Makita and the original Hitachi...sorry Festool, just to many horror stories to justify the price. (I know, it's not masonite anymore, but it was in the 70s when I started using it)

Tempered hardboard is what they call it now, I think.

One of my favorite cheap materials is from Lowe’s. (May be something similar at HD) I think they call it “tile board” but to us older guys it’s 1/8” Masonite with a coat of white melamine on one side. Cheap at around $11 per 4x8 foot sheet. Great for templates and if you sand the white side a little it takes pencil marks very well.

 

[Huxleywood]

Hi

Any other mitre saw suggestions outside of the Kapex 60 & 120 would be welcome. Most of my power tools are Dewalt and Makita, but I am not overly brand loyal, and don't mind the cost if the accuracy, quality and reliability is there.

Thanks

Adi...

If accuracy trumps currency then look at one of the cast iron saws made by OMGA or similar.  Used ones are pretty easy to find in the US with decades of service left for commercial use and generations left for a hobbyist.  Most of us that are hobby woodworkers do a strange thing with miter cutting saws, we use a machine designed for site work and install it permanently.  I suppose we do it due to the availability and price.  A site saw has to balance accuracy and repeatability with weight and portability in general, saws like the cast ones built by OMGA aren't made to be moved and thus they can concentrate on accuracy and repeatability. 

They obviously won't be for everyone for various reasons.

 

[shady]

Hi

Birdhunter... Thanks for the advice... when you say "With a jig, you can probably get picture frame quality miters", can you explain what sort of jig you mean.
I took a look at Betterley and other zero clearance inserts, but it looks like once you do an angled cut it will open up the slot and it won't be zero clearance anymore.  Its a pity there is no brake on the Festools, as spin down takes a while. 

Huxleywood... I'm in UK and have never heard of OMGA, but a good few years ago I found a really old Tyzac table saw with a cast Iron chassis in a junk store. It had a footprint of about 30"x30" but weighed a ton. I helped the old guy carry it into the shop from out the back, and was meant to call back once he had cleaned it up, but I never got back there.

Like Birdhunter also said about a good  table saw, now I'm wondering whether to look at a solid small table saw instead of a sliding compound mitre, but then is this the right tool for making frames and can you get equivalent compound cuts with one.

I called up a shop called Toucan not too far away from me, and the guy said he has Festool Dewalt etc on display, so I will take a trip down there and get some hands on. The 18V Dewalt 365 looks OK too and I  already have a drill and impact with 5A batteries so that one is another option too. They have thinner blades to increase battery runtime, but I don't know if it is a plus or minus when it comes to accuracy.

Thanks..

Adi...