Kapex and tall base

[overanalyze]

I have been going back and forth on getting the Kapex for about two years. The one thing holding me back is we do a fair amount of 5-1/4" base in our new homes. Right now we use 12" Dewalts and I can cut the 45 for my cope vertical. Is it a pain to cut that bevel on the flat with the Kapex? Does it take extra time to change from 90 degree to bevel?

 

[NERemodeling]

i dont have a ton of time behind the kapex as i just bought it less than a week ago.  i can say i was in a similar situation to you where i wanted the kapex for quite some time and could never justify getting rid of my 10" makita slider and buying the kapex. My makita had tons of issues and design flaws i hated, one of them being how much of a pain it was to bevel the saw and then get it back to exactly 90 (0) degrees. after a few bigger issues popped up, i ditched it.

I think the bevel of the kapex is one of its best features, it is so fast and accurate to drop to a bevel and then bring it right back to 90.

Im sure it will never be as fast as swinging to a miter angle but i know it is much faster and accurate than beveling with my makita

John

 

[wondersofwood]

I will add that adjusting the bevel is soooo much nicer (and accurate) on the Kapex vs my DeWalt 12".

 

[Saskataper]

Rolling the kapex from 0 to 45 is stupid easy and smooth. There is a dial that selects the bevel range 0°-45°,45°-45°, and 47°-47°. All it takes is one lever and almost no effort to roll it over and back, also the angle indicator is really clear so you know it's locked at the right angle.  I'd say it's as easy as setting the miter  and easier  than setting liters on other saws

 

[barnowl]

Rolling the kapex from 0 to 45 is stupid easy and smooth. There is a dial that selects the bevel range 0°-45°,45°-45°, and 47°-47°. All it takes is one lever and almost no effort to roll it over and back, also the angle indicator is really clear so you know it's locked at the right angle.  I'd say it's as easy as setting the miter  and easier  than setting liters on other saws

+1

Setting the bevel is a piece of cake, and it's the best bevel adjutment I've ever seen or used.

Largest protractor of any saw that I can think of.

 

[ccmviking]

Hey overanalyze,

    I felt the same way as you at first.  But I'll tell you I was wrong about wanting to stand that large base up to cut it.  Especially if you are cutting 16 footers even with long outfeed support you'll struggle at times to keep the base flat and square against the fence (and you cut and hold one piece to just have the other piece fall at times).  So when you lay it down there's no struggle at all.  You flip it upside down and can very clearly see your cut line vs trying to look around the back of the base.  You'll be able to cut a lot of base really fast, and the slider gives you the option of cutting splinter free, whether you have the base facing up or down.

Chris...

 

[peter halle]

If the laser is dialed in and the ambient light will allow you to see the lines then it will go even better for you. 

Peter

 

[justinh]

I find cutting in position to be much faster, easier, and more intuitive.  The DeWalt miter saws can be dialed in very tight.  I have both my 716 and 780  tuned to about .002 horizontally and vertically and they hold these settings. Miters fit with minimal effort, pre-assembled trim comes together like it grew that way, and it is rare that I have to play the "cut it till it fits" game unless I am screwing up. I also hands down prefer the light to any laser I have ever used including the one on the Kapex.

I have used the Kapex quite frequently and it is a nice saw with some well thought out features. If you feel that these features will make you more money than what you are using then buy it.  I personally looked at the way I work, what it is that I am typically cutting, and the environments in which I am usually cutting it before deciding that the saws I have are more than capable of doing what I need to do at a very high quality standard. 

I'd stick with the saw you have.

My .02

Justin

 

[Samo]

Justin got it!

If you have a business?  Time is money.

 

[Samo]

I think a 12" Kapex is doable

 

[Sparky]

Yeah i am waiting for a 12" to be released before i buy a kapex.

 

[Samo]

Don't hold your breath!

 

[RKA]

Overanalyze - I'm not sure you're asking the right question.  The answer is quite simply, yes, the bevel is very easy to set on the Kapex as already stated.  If you have good eyes, it's only slightly more difficult than setting the miter.  And if you don't have good eyes, well, it's a fairly large bevel guage for what it's worth.  Justin brought up some really good points.  It's a change in workflow and dealing with larger moldings, you'll find yourself cutting on the flat more frequently than not.  Most people are set in their ways, so if you have a Kapex and a couple dewalts circulating among the crew, this might cause a small mutiny. 

I'm just a hobbiest and I've struggled with this coming from a Dewalt 780.  It's definitely got the capacity, and while light for a 12" saw, it's still heavy to cart to my work area and in some situations can create quite a bit of dust even with an extractor.  The bevel adjustment is less than elegant (the norm), but seldom gets used because everything is cut standing up.  There is plenty of slop in the head as well, so technique is important if you want consistent results.  I wish I could offer more in the way of the Kapex, but as it stands I'm having a hard time carving out a block of time to go play.  It's still in the box.  In my case, I'm never really working on the clock, so speed isn't the issue.  It's just adjusting to a change in workflow from what I'm used to.  One thing is for certain, there are less brain cells involved for me when cutting upright. 

 

[ccmviking]

I find cutting in position to be much faster, easier, and more intuitive. 
My .02

Justin

Then you haven't tried it the other way.  There's no way it's faster standing up.  Do you mark it standing up as well?  Because you can cut it and mark it laying down.

Chris...

 

[curt boyer]

Cutting in position is much faster than cutting on the flat. The only reason to cut on the flat is if the crown moulding is too big for the capacity of the saw. It's easier to see the mark, cut to the mark, and get better results cutting in position. I have the Kapex, 12" Dewalt slider, and the original slider the 8-1/2" Hitachi. Even as accurate and easy to bevel as the Kapex is, it's a pain and slow to keep flipping the saw when cutting on the flat.

 

[Samo]

Cutting in position is much faster than cutting on the flat. The only reason to cut on the flat is if the crown moulding is too big for the capacity of the saw. It's easier to see the mark, cut to the mark, and get better results cutting in position. I have the Kapex, 12" Dewalt slider, and the original slider the 8-1/2" Hitachi. Even as accurate and easy to bevel as the Kapex is, it's a pain and slow to keep flipping the saw when cutting on the flat.

Exactly!

I guess it just depends on what you do.  I love the Kapex, I just need a bigger one.  I'm a builder and expected to deliver in a cost effective way - a quality product.

A Festool 12 - 15"miter saw with lasers, dust collection and tight tolerances wouldn't necessarily need to be a slider.

[dead horse]

 

[justinh]

Chris,
I learned to cut on the flat on both Hitachi 8 1/2" and 10" saws. I still cut on the flat when it is required and move at a good clip. I think any professional carpenter should be able to achieve good production using either method.  When I am cutting in position I measure the mouldings in position. When I am cutting on the the flat they are measured on the flat. It is also very rare that I lay any millwork on its face.  You are asking for tear out where you cant hide it slider or no slider, kapex or another saw.  It may not happen every time but when it does it will be on the one piece that is most visible and most difficult to fix.

I said and say again I find it faster, easier, and more intuitive to cut in position than on the flat. It is part of the the system that I use whether the job is custom or production.  I say part because my system starts either when the moulding is loaded onto my van or is unloaded from the truck. It is stacked with all the profiles facing the same way and then unloaded and stacked on the left of my saw and fed through to the right. It is then coped and stacked in the same order as my cut list.

When cutting on the flat one is either flipping the bevel back and forth from an inside corner to an outside or to a square. Every change requires a reach to either the the top or back of the saw.  Another method is to pre cut all the inside corners and then move back through the cut list but this requires one to double handle material.

Both strategies are accurate and can be done quickly but still not as quickly or as simply as just turning the miter table.  The work flow is just more intuitive in position. I find it much easier to fall into a groove as there are fewer and shorter stops is work.

The same system  applies to panel moulding, chair rail, etc. The only time it varies is when I need to add more repetitive stops than the right side of my saw wings can fit and then it only varies by feed direction.  There is a bit more to it but those are the basics.

The system is the same whether I cut in position or on the flat. I buy and use tools that i feel fit best into the cutting strategies that I use and that fit my preferred methods of work. I rarely buy tools based on an uncertain future need or because I thinks they're cool. I buy them when they can make me money and only if my investment is quickly returned.

If you find it faster to cut on the flat then by all means do so.  My systems work for me. They may not work for you.

My tracked time numbers show a difference between the two methods. On smaller projects the time difference does not have a huge impact but on larger jobs it would most certainly do so.  The job I am on now has 3+ miles of running and standing trim so it would absolutely show.

Justin

 

[overanalyze]

Thank you to everyone for the feedback! My workflow would definitely have to change...not on every job, but on our large trim jobs. The next couple projects are smaller base and casing so it wouldn't be a problem. I just need to wait until my next large base job comes up, buy the thing and use it. It will probably be the only way to find out if I like a Kapex for what I do...

 

[Deansocial]

I find cutting flat works best for me. Having 5m of skirting stood in position just feels unsafe. What size base you guys cutting in position anyway? Mines normally 5-7 inch

 

[mastercabman]

I find cutting flat works best for me. Having 5m of skirting stood in position just feels unsafe. What size base you guys cutting in position anyway? Mines normally 5-7 inch

Standard base is 3 1/4"-4 1/4"
But when doing higher end homes it's about 5-7" (here in Virginia)