Kapex any good or no power

[Scott B.]

Thanks Brice and Tim.

I think we all on the FOG share what we can when we can. Whenever I do, its always with the attitude that you can take whatever from it is helpful to you and leave the rest.

I enjoy hearing other people's opinions about tools and processes. Especially the ones that are critical and hold products to a high standard. The best ones are usually backed by some of the experience that helped shape the opinion. Often that is lacking.

That is how I have always established the value of opinions. Anyone can say anything online. How the claims are supported is important to me. I think we all grew pretty tired of the "here's what's in the box" approach.

When it comes to tools in general for me (sprayers, brushes, power tools), I am most interested in what can the tool do and how it can be used to complete projects better. I am always looking to improve on that. Time is a finite thing. We only have so much of it. In the working day, there is none to waste and it is valuable. In our spare time, it is even more valuable.

That is why I think that productive discussions in a group like this can be helpful to all.

 

[Brice Burrell]

I think your opinion on the whether or not the Kapex is under powered is a matter of perspective.  The types of material you've cut, the amount of cutting you have done over the years, and your experience with other miter saws all factor in on your views on this topic. 

As a professional in the building trades for 24 years, I have experience cutting a lot of wood, with numerous different miter saws.  Drawing from this experience I've come to the conclusion that the Kapex is under powered. I'm not saying this to add more validity to my opinions, I'm just letting you guys know where my experience lies.

As an example, try cutting a piece of 2x12 framing lumber with the Kapex.  The Kapex will cut it, but you could bog the saw down if you pushed the saw at all.  If you change that to a piece of pressure treated lumber and you'd likely have to be pretty careful to not bog the saw down.  Taking it farther, try to cut that pressure treated 2x12 on a miter or bevel and the likelihood of bogging the saw down goes way, way up.  Now, make that compound miter and bogging down the saw becomes pretty much a certainty.

I don't think it is unreasonable to consider cutting framing lumber to be well within the capability of any professional grade miter saw.  So when the Kapex struggles to make cuts that are not uncommon I think it is perfectly reasonable to view the Kapex as under powered. 

I still think the Kapex is the best miter currently available here in the US.  That said there is plenty of room form improvement.  The MMC electronics don't seem to work as well on the Kapex as Festool's other tools.  There is an issue with people here in the States burning them up.  Also a larger version should be considered.  I think the Kapex was a good first attempt for Festool, however, maybe it's time to revisit the design.               

 

[Scott B.]

I know what you mean, Brice, and I am somewhat the same way in expectations based on field experience.

In some tool categories, I need one that can just do it all. Other categories, it takes a fleet.

When I run into the problem you describe, the Kapex not being great on 2x12 for example, that is one of the very few times that I will go and look at what the manufacturer seems to intend for the tool...how they describe it, how they, ugh, market it.

I clicked over to festoolusa.com and clicked on the Kapex.

Here is a snip of the very first paragraph...

[attachimg=1]

That description makes me wonder if their intent is for the saw to be more of a trim saw than a framing saw.

I know that opens the whole can of worms about what a user should expect...

 

[curt boyer]

I agree with Brice the Kapex is under powered compared to my two other miter saws. I don't baby my saw at all, it's pretty much permanently mounted in my truck. I cut everything from aluminum extrusion to framing lumber on it during the course of the day and when cutting 2x's and thick hardwoods the Kapex definitely struggles. I don't mind the cutting capacity limits as much as the lack of power.

I have a 12" Dewalt saw that does a good job of anything I ask of it but it's heavy, no dust collection, hard to adjust the bevel, and requires half a football field behind the saw for rail clearance. The bigger the blade the more deflection and when cutting compound miters on hardwoods with the Dewalt I get a lot of burning even when using my Forrest blade. My 20 year old 8-1/2" Hitachi will cut just as good if not better than the Kapex. That being said I have a buddy that has a 15" Hitachi chop saw that makes you smile every time you depress the trigger and release the Kraken!
Cheers
Curt

 

[skinee]

I've had my kapex about five years now and I'm fairly happy with the saw itself(used mostly for finish/trim work) what really irritates me is the wings,the attachment is simply rubbish, coming loose at the slightest movement no matter how tight it is secured,its no use having a quick/tool-less attachment method if it simply does not work,i would rather take time to bolt something together and have it secure than the present method,the single leg on the wings is another design flaw in my opinion,its just not stable enough to resist lateral forces,this combined with the poor attachment at the saw means its impossible to keep secure in normal working conditions,how this system ever got past the design/testing phase is beyond me ???

 

[peter halle]

I've had my kapex about five years now and I'm fairly happy with the saw itself(used mostly for finish/trim work) what really irritates me is the wings,the attachment is simply rubbish, coming loose at the slightest movement no matter how tight it is secured,its no use having a quick/tool-less attachment method if it simply does not work,i would rather take time to bolt something together and have it secure than the present method,the single leg on the wings is another design flaw in my opinion,its just not stable enough to resist lateral forces,this combined with the poor attachment at the saw means its impossible to keep secure in normal working conditions,how this system ever got past the design/testing phase is beyond me ???

I really mean for this to be helpful, so please don't take it wrongly.  Why don't you email or PM Phil and see if someone can check out your setup.  My guess is that it can be arranged easily and things sorted out.  [member=41214]Phil Beckley[/member]

Peter

 

[Ed Bray]

I've had my kapex about five years now and I'm fairly happy with the saw itself(used mostly for finish/trim work) what really irritates me is the wings,the attachment is simply rubbish, coming loose at the slightest movement no matter how tight it is secured,its no use having a quick/tool-less attachment method if it simply does not work,i would rather take time to bolt something together and have it secure than the present method,the single leg on the wings is another design flaw in my opinion,its just not stable enough to resist lateral forces,this combined with the poor attachment at the saw means its impossible to keep secure in normal working conditions,how this system ever got past the design/testing phase is beyond me ???

I have to say, your experience surprises me, I love my UG Cart and especially the wings. I have put some long and very heavy pieces on them and they have not moved a jot. I especially like the fact I can move them on their v-groove to take into account my 18mm plywood fences and still be accurate and firmly attached and if you want to use them for crown work can reverse them for that too. I have never had them come loose, although I was not convinced of the security of their attachment when I first started using them. The only thing I can ask is are you putting clamping bracket against the full part of the saw? Or, are you just connecting it to the little lip which is just in front of the actual mounting area, I did this a few times until I was taught better.

 

[Phil Beckley]

I've had my kapex about five years now and I'm fairly happy with the saw itself(used mostly for finish/trim work) what really irritates me is the wings,the attachment is simply rubbish, coming loose at the slightest movement no matter how tight it is secured,its no use having a quick/tool-less attachment method if it simply does not work,i would rather take time to bolt something together and have it secure than the present method,the single leg on the wings is another design flaw in my opinion,its just not stable enough to resist lateral forces,this combined with the poor attachment at the saw means its impossible to keep secure in normal working conditions,how this system ever got past the design/testing phase is beyond me ???

Hi
Make sure the plate is pushed on to the frame of the saw than tighten - sounds obvious but I have attached them and turned around and then CRASH  [embarassed] only because I had not pushed the plate over.
  If you have any issues drop me P.M and will sort with and End User visit
rg
Phil

 

[Doug S]

I think the stand and wings are great, never had a problem with them but they are ment to be easily portable so therefore are lightweight.
Kapex is not underpowered if you use it for what it's designed for, if you use it on its limits you should buy a bigger saw. I do think some festool stuff is not as industrial as it used to be and Festool should not sell the Kapex as a saw for the big rough stuff, it is more of a precision instrument.

Doug

 

[Cheese]

If you have any issues drop me P.M and will sort with and End User visit
rg
Phil

End User Visit...nice,  [thumbs up]  over the long haul, probably better than our 30-day trial run.

 

[Darren1972]

Darren1972, just curious but what type of cuts require so much power?

Yeah +1,

Darren,if you need more power get a chainsaw!

A chainsaw huh very helpful

If most (all) your work is first fix it's not an unhelpful suggestion; the swordsaw is really an evolved chainsaw afterall and excels at cuts in large timbers. There's a lot to be said for picking the right tool for the right job!

I still need a mitre saw for angles and to set it uo with a length stop to cut lots of lengths at the same size chain saw no good to me

 

[joiner1970]

Have you looked at the HKC55 saw Darren ? If its just first fixing you're doing you don't need a kapex. HKC does all angles and is very portable

 

[skinee]

Hi
Make sure the plate is pushed on to the frame of the saw than tighten - sounds obvious but I have attached them and turned around and then CRASH  [embarassed] only because I had not pushed the plate over.
  If you have any issues drop me P.M and will sort with and End User visit
rg
Phil
[/quote]

thankyou for your offer Phil but believe me I have tried everything over the years,i think in the desire for portability and quick fixing, security of attachment has been sacrificed,its a problem recognised elsewhere by the fact that the fastcap company for example supply a high friction tape for the v groove and an improved mounting bracket,they too have obviously learned that the standard attachment is insecure,the problem is one of design and inadequate testing before production

 

[peter halle]

Hi
Make sure the plate is pushed on to the frame of the saw than tighten - sounds obvious but I have attached them and turned around and then CRASH  [embarassed] only because I had not pushed the plate over.
  If you have any issues drop me P.M and will sort with and End User visit
rg
Phil

"  thankyou for your offer Phil but believe me I have tried everything over the years,i think in the desire for portability and quick fixing, security of attachment has been sacrificed,its a problem recognised elsewhere by the fact that the fastcap company for example supply a high friction tape for the v groove and an improved mounting bracket,they too have obviously learned that the standard attachment is insecure,the problem is one of design and inadequate testing before production
[/quote]

I honestly find this to be one of the strangest posts.  In response to a post a Festool employee has made the offer to come out and help and he has been blown off.

Why wouldn't you in rights mind not accept an attempt to better your situation?

Peter Halle

 

[Locks14]

Hi
Make sure the plate is pushed on to the frame of the saw than tighten - sounds obvious but I have attached them and turned around and then CRASH  [embarassed] only because I had not pushed the plate over.
  If you have any issues drop me P.M and will sort with and End User visit
rg
Phil

"  thankyou for your offer Phil but believe me I have tried everything over the years,i think in the desire for portability and quick fixing, security of attachment has been sacrificed,its a problem recognised elsewhere by the fact that the fastcap company for example supply a high friction tape for the v groove and an improved mounting bracket,they too have obviously learned that the standard attachment is insecure,the problem is one of design and inadequate testing before production

I honestly find this to be one of the strangest posts.  In response to a post a Festool employee has made the offer to come out and help and he has been blown off.

Why wouldn't you in rights mind not accept an attempt to better your situation?

Peter Halle
[/quote]

Maybe it's because whenever someone criticises a Festool product the stock response seems to be "ask for tips", "try it and return if you don't like it" or "We'll arrange for an end user visit". Sometimes none of these are the solution, sometimes it's just (shock horror) that certain tools or aspects of a tool are poorly designed by Festool. Sometimes the insinuation that the tool is beyond reproach and it is user error becomes tiresome and insulting. The Kapex is riddled with reliability issues and poor quality control, much like the Carvex, but the mere mention of such things is brushed under the carpet, rather than acknowledged.

Sometimes the offer of "help" is just patronising.

 

[peter halle]

Hi
Make sure the plate is pushed on to the frame of the saw than tighten - sounds obvious but I have attached them and turned around and then CRASH  [embarassed] only because I had not pushed the plate over.
  If you have any issues drop me P.M and will sort with and End User visit
rg
Phil

"  thankyou for your offer Phil but believe me I have tried everything over the years,i think in the desire for portability and quick fixing, security of attachment has been sacrificed,its a problem recognised elsewhere by the fact that the fastcap company for example supply a high friction tape for the v groove and an improved mounting bracket,they too have obviously learned that the standard attachment is insecure,the problem is one of design and inadequate testing before production

I honestly find this to be one of the strangest posts.  In response to a post a Festool employee has made the offer to come out and help and he has been blown off.

Why wouldn't you in rights mind not accept an attempt to better your situation?

Peter Halle

Maybe it's because whenever someone criticises a Festool product the stock response seems to be "ask for tips", "try it and return if you don't like it" or "We'll arrange for an end user visit". Sometimes none of these are the solution, sometimes it's just (shock horror) that certain tools or aspects of a tool are poorly designed by Festool. Sometimes the insinuation that the tool is beyond reproach and it is user error becomes tiresome and insulting. The Kapex is riddled with reliability issues and poor quality control, much like the Carvex, but the mere mention of such things is brushed under the carpet, rather than acknowledged.

Sometimes the offer of "help" is just patronising.
[/quote]

I'm sorry, perhaps you didn't understand that my post was addressed to the originator of the quoted passage.  That being said, if you would disappear from the FOG I would not miss you.

Peter Halle - Member & Moderator

 

[Locks14]

Hi
Make sure the plate is pushed on to the frame of the saw than tighten - sounds obvious but I have attached them and turned around and then CRASH  [embarassed] only because I had not pushed the plate over.
  If you have any issues drop me P.M and will sort with and End User visit
rg
Phil

"  thankyou for your offer Phil but believe me I have tried everything over the years,i think in the desire for portability and quick fixing, security of attachment has been sacrificed,its a problem recognised elsewhere by the fact that the fastcap company for example supply a high friction tape for the v groove and an improved mounting bracket,they too have obviously learned that the standard attachment is insecure,the problem is one of design and inadequate testing before production

I honestly find this to be one of the strangest posts.  In response to a post a Festool employee has made the offer to come out and help and he has been blown off.

Why wouldn't you in rights mind not accept an attempt to better your situation?

Peter Halle

Maybe it's because whenever someone criticises a Festool product the stock response seems to be "ask for tips", "try it and return if you don't like it" or "We'll arrange for an end user visit". Sometimes none of these are the solution, sometimes it's just (shock horror) that certain tools or aspects of a tool are poorly designed by Festool. Sometimes the insinuation that the tool is beyond reproach and it is user error becomes tiresome and insulting. The Kapex is riddled with reliability issues and poor quality control, much like the Carvex, but the mere mention of such things is brushed under the carpet, rather than acknowledged.

Sometimes the offer of "help" is just patronising.

I'm sorry, perhaps you didn't understand that my post was addressed to the originator of the quoted passage.  That being said, if you would disappear from the FOG I would not miss you.

Peter Halle - Member & Moderator
[/quote]

I'm sorry, perhaps you don't understand the purpose of a forum is public discussion and expression of views, if your post was truly only meant for the originator it should have been expressed in a private message. To post openly on a forum, by its very nature, invites public discussion of any points raised.

As for me disappearing from the forum, that's not a very impartial sentiment from a moderator charged with the responsibility of representing Festool in a public capacity. I'm sorry the fact I don't blindly toe the party line apparently causes you personal displeasure and pointing out the truth offends you. That being said, the feeling is entirely mutual and should your overzealous defence of all things Festool become absent from the forum, I too would not miss your presence.

 

[CrazyLarry]

I'm sorry, perhaps you don't understand the purpose of a forum is public discussion and expression of views, if your post was truly only meant for the originator it should have been expressed in a private message. To post openly on a forum, by its very nature, invites public discussion of any points raised.

As for me disappearing from the forum, that's not a very impartial sentiment from a moderator charged with the responsibility of representing Festool in a public capacity. I'm sorry the fact I don't blindly toe the party line apparently causes you personal displeasure and pointing out the truth offends you. That being said, the feeling is entirely mutual and should your overzealous defence of all things Festool become absent from the forum, I too would not miss your presence.

Peter's original point, politely well made, stands: why wouldn't someone in the first instance help themselves at the very least to establish definitively that the product isn't for them by accepting the free assistance of someone who is an expert in the product and has direct access to the parent company engineers etc for any issue discovered during the visit???

As for impartiality all you ever do is whinge and whine, never a single constructive suggestion, if you don't like the kit don't hang about commenting. There's lots of festool stuff that's not for me but might be ideal for others doesn't mean it's rubbish or wonderful either way.

 

[peter halle]

I have evaluated my comments, they are within the forum guidelines and if you wish you discuss this further I would suggest or urge you to contact me via the PM system.

Peter

 

[Locks14]

I'm sorry, perhaps you don't understand the purpose of a forum is public discussion and expression of views, if your post was truly only meant for the originator it should have been expressed in a private message. To post openly on a forum, by its very nature, invites public discussion of any points raised.

As for me disappearing from the forum, that's not a very impartial sentiment from a moderator charged with the responsibility of representing Festool in a public capacity. I'm sorry the fact I don't blindly toe the party line apparently causes you personal displeasure and pointing out the truth offends you. That being said, the feeling is entirely mutual and should your overzealous defence of all things Festool become absent from the forum, I too would not miss your presence.

Peter's original point, politely well made, stands: why wouldn't someone in the first instance help themselves at the very least to establish definitively that the product isn't for them by accepting the free assistance of someone who is an expert in the product and has direct access to the parent company engineers etc for any issue discovered during the visit???

As for impartiality all you ever do is whinge and whine, never a single constructive suggestion, if you don't like the kit don't hang about commenting. There's lots of festool stuff that's not for me but might be ideal for others doesn't mean it's rubbish or wonderful either way.

In response to your first question, the reason someone might not want assistance is because these products in question are just power tools, not nuclear reactors. For the most part the use of a so called "expert" is not required. If my car has a flat tyre I don't need the engineer from Audi to tell me so, I have enough expertise to come to this conclusion on my own.

As for your second point, it's all about perspective. You feel I "whinge and whine", though what I contribute is purely based on observation. It's only considered "whinging and whining" by those who find it difficult to be impartial. I have no issues with Festool, I own some of their tools of which some I rate highly and some less so. What I don't do is unconditionally bestow praise on everything they produce, if this doesn't meet with your approval, I make no apologies.