Kapex Base Casting

[Scott B.]

So, it sounds like a "I paid top dollar for this, everything about it better be perfect in every way" argument.

I am glad my customers don't expect the back sides of their drywall and trim to be as perfectly finished as the faces.

[scared]

I don't think it is just "top dollar" - how about 3 times the price???

I just picked up my Bosch 12" Glider that I paid $500 for a couple of days ago and it looks perfect and cuts extremely accurate.  If I paid what the OP paid for the Kapex - I would be upset also.

Too many KoolAid Drinkers here...  That finish is unsatisfactory in my book

I don't think it is all that divisive of an issue. It bothers some people, doesn't bother others.

Bosch makes a good sliding compound. So does Dewalt. Hitachi. Makita.

 

[AlexThePalex]

You clearly have never seen Any brand new heavy equipment. Even farm equipment comes with a perfect paint job. When you are comparing a $150k machine to a nearly identical machine from a different manufacturer for $250k the things like paint and visually appealing welds make a huge difference to the customer. These "little" thinks shows a lot about build quality and pride of the manufacturer. You can deck out heavy equipment with chrome just like semi trucks and Mercedes

Wow, talking about jumping to conclusions. I am actually one of those guys who put those paint jobs on brand new equipment. All sorts of equipment, my father owned his own paint spray business, originally started as a body shop but later on evolved to a company that sprayed everything. Including many types of industrial equipment, moving and stationary. New or old. Also that farm equipment you're talking about.

And there was a HUGE difference between the quality expected between luxury cars and industrial equipment. Work on cars would cost many times more per square meter than on industrial stuff.  The materials were more expensive and the amount of work a lot higher.

My father wouldn't let me spray any cars because I didn't have the proper education and papers for that, but he often did put me in charge of all furniture and industrial projects.

Later on I worked for 10 years in cold storage in the harbour where we had to load or discharge ships with cargo ranging from 200 to 8000 tons. That company had soooo much equipment, including dosens of forklifts that each cost as much as a Merc. No way did they come with a Merc paint job. Functionality was the criterium, not looks.

I remember particularly how at one time they placed a big order of around 25 Caterpillar forklifts. The new trucks were introduced on a special day with the press and the public and all kinds of town officials present, even a government secretary. The big boss was not satisfied with how a lot of the brand new trucks looked and I had to touch them up with a brush and a roller. [big grin]

You don't want to know how those trucks looked 3 months later.

 

[FinishingCanuck]

I think you took my comparison the wrong way. I wasn't comparing farm equipment to Mercedes. I meant more of a comparison like... A john deer lawn mower compared to the "budget" brands you might find at Home Depot. Sorry for the confusion

 

[peter halle]

I have a question on the base casting. I just picked up my saw today and unboxed it. Was checking it out and was a bit disappointed is the casting on the base. I spent 1800 bucks today on the saw, hose and crown wings. Just wondering if this is normal before I raise a stink. I know it won't affect the performance but with OCD it just don't seem right.The back of the saws base don't look like this. Thanks

So to summarize this thread to this point for those readers who don't go back to the beginning of the thread - Going back to the original post and question and the posts here so far it would appear that it is normal for the Kapex to have a "less than perfect" casting.  It would also appear that posters here are split between what is acceptable or not acceptable for the brand and for the cost.

P. Halle - Moderator

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

It's not a less then perfect casting.  It is a perfectly good and well done casting. 

The line is from the mold.  Turn the saw upside down and tell me how poor of a casting it is.

I get it, some of us buy tools to use them because they work better then other tools.

Some buy tools just to say they have such and such tool, and can't be bothered with mold lines on a saw base.

 

[jacko9]

Interesting discussion but the casting trim lines (or whatever the correct definition of the irregularity is) wouldn't be on my top 99% list of product quality concerns vs price.  I have a DeWalt 12" slider that cost 1/4 the what a Kapex cost and for decking/fencing. etc is't just fine but, trying to get perfectly square and true 45 degree miter cuts is a different issue since the cast table/fence is not true at 45 degrees heck, it's not even true at all.  This is the casting itself no adjustments to fix unless I add an auxiliary table fence. I understand that the Bosch 12" non-slider is an excellent example of cost/quality "best value".

Jack

 

[teocaf]

the OCD seems to run rampant in these type of threads.  haven't they come up with pills for these type of maladies?

ok, so you buy a mercedes.  you open the hood.  you inspect the various castings.  rough where it does not matter, and machined where it does. 
you now look at other parts easily visible.  you see crimped sheet metal from the stamping process, etc.--not everything is milled.
these are manufacturing methods, processes, whatever you want to call them.  parts are processed to different levels even on a mercedes depending on a variety of  factors.
try to take the vehicle back to the dealer and explain your OCD disappointment with these "imperfections".  you'll be laughed out of the place. 

 

[mastercabman]

I don't understand what the problem is?
You guys are making thing too complicated
The kapex is not a Mercedes or a heavy equipment or a lawn mower
It a saw! Just a tool
If you don't like the way it look take it back and get another one
If it's still not good enough get your money back and go buy a Bosch

 

[#Tee]

lol at the benz comparison. i was a tech at a benz dealership and ppl would spend 100,000 on these cars and they have "casting flaws" on suspension arms/block/cylinder head. such a poor analogy.

 

[Scott B.]

I see this as an opportunity for someone to make a aftermarket Kapex Base Shoe that the base can insert into to conceal those unsightly castings. Thinking chrome would be cool.

 

[Ajax]

One more issue with the Kapex.  For the money, it should be near perfect.  I'd rather buy the Bosch and use the difference for an MFT and another Festool sander.

 

[wow]

Guys, as Peter said earlier let's all be respectful.

For all of those who say "It's just a tool" or "It doesn't matter" - you are correct.

For all of those who say they expect better from Festool - you are also correct.

People have different expectations, and there's nothing wrong either side of the discussion. I personally find these discussions helpful, and I think Festool should be interested in them as well. While it may not be the way you see things, I find it unacceptable to dismiss the concerns of the people who find the quality of the finish to be lacking as 'unimportant'.

I already stated my opinion and reasoning, so I will now shut up since I have nothing meaningful to add to this discussion.

 

[Rollin22Petes]

I don't think this is an issue that we could all ever agree on regardless of what side you are on hell even my track saws have casting marks on them. But at the end of the day these saws make very precise cuts with very little dust and isn't that one of the reasons we buy Festool equipment in the first place for accuracy an dust collection!! 

 

[rljatl]

I see this as an opportunity for someone to make a aftermarket Kapex Base Shoe that the base can insert into to conceal those unsightly castings. Thinking chrome would be cool.

Maybe Woodpeckers will make a one time bright red aluminum cover for it.

 

[FinishingCanuck]

I see this as an opportunity for someone to make a aftermarket Kapex Base Shoe that the base can insert into to conceal those unsightly castings. Thinking chrome would be cool.

Maybe Woodpeckers will make a one time bright red aluminum cover for it.

I think he was being sarcastic. He was making fun of my comments

 

[AlexThePalex]

For all of those who say "It's just a tool" or "It doesn't matter" - you are correct.

For all of those who say they expect better from Festool - you are also correct.

I do agree with you. I must say I'm in the former camp, because such "imperfections" wouldn't even be noticed by myself.

But I also think these imperfections could be avoided by Festool without much trouble or added cost. Just one extra little thing to pay attention to in the entire production process, and it's not a big thing, just an eeny weeny, teeny bitty thingy.

Seeing how we now have three of these threads in a short time, where people express there dissatisfaction with these things, and the huge controversy it stirs up, I am sure it has Festool's attention.

 

[Scott B.]

I see this as an opportunity for someone to make a aftermarket Kapex Base Shoe that the base can insert into to conceal those unsightly castings. Thinking chrome would be cool.

Maybe Woodpeckers will make a one time bright red aluminum cover for it.

I think he was being sarcastic. He was making fun of my comments

Not making fun of you. If it is a real concern for you, then so be it.

It's not for me. I have used the Kapex on a bunch of different types of projects, and honestly had never even noticed the casting flaws that are problematic for some.

While I do like my tools to be cool looking, I go for function over form in most cases. I beat the hell out of tools.

To me, the number one job of a tool is to be profitable.

 

[Paul G]

For all of those who say "It's just a tool" or "It doesn't matter" - you are correct.

For all of those who say they expect better from Festool - you are also correct.

I do agree with you. I must say I'm in the former camp, because such "imperfections" wouldn't even be noticed by myself.

But I also think these imperfections could be avoided by Festool without much trouble or added cost. Just one extra little thing to pay attention to in the entire production process, and it's not a big thing, just an eeny weeny, teeny bitty thingy.

Seeing how we now have three of these threads in a short time, where people express there dissatisfaction with these things, and the huge controversy it stirs up, I am sure it has Festool's attention.

If the casting marks can be addressed with no price change then I'm all for it. I just hate to see a price increase for everyone for non functional cosmetics to appease the few who care.

 

[RJNeal]

I've own my Kapex five years or so. I never even notice the casting marks not that I'm not observant. It's just part of the saw.
Now that I Have wear marks from wood being slid across the table from use,the casting marks are a non issue. I'm sure once these newer saw get used and the table shows some wear those casting marks will fade away.

So let's restart a real debate. Like clamping pressure or force. 
Rick

 

[CrazyLarry]

Perhaps what counts is whether the effort and cost that could be put into producing near perfect castings would yield greater results applied to the other 400 things on the Festool todo list? I'd say there are many, many more pressing flaws in other products to be fixed right now that are both functionally painful as well as a little ugly...

I also almost feel sorry for Festool because one of the problems with producing a particularly outstanding product say the RO150 is that it immediately makes other products in their own line up which previously seemed pretty slick next to the rest of the market no longer look in the same league. It's a good symptom of a good disease!