Kapex Hold Downs - Both Sides?

[erock]

In addition to what others have said, we all start out as novice tool users. It's only through asking questions that we can progress in our understanding and skills.

We're all here to help each other. That's the spirit of what this forum is about.

I've been doing this for 10 years and still ask questions that others may consider novice.

Shane

Been doing WHAT for 10 years?    LOL !    DUDE I couldn't resist !      Just having some good old fashion fun.

Eric

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Been doing WHAT for 10 years?    LOL !    DUDE I couldn't resist !      Just having some good old fashion fun.

You know... this.  [cool]

Festool. I've been involved with Festool for 10 years. And even though my brain is packed full of Festool knowledge, I still learn new things all the time, and often from this forum.

I guess I've been involved with woodworking since a kid when my dad built custom furniture and cabinets as a side business. So, I've been exposed to woodworking for a few more than 10 years.

Shane

 

[erock]

Been doing WHAT for 10 years?    LOL !    DUDE I couldn't resist !      Just having some good old fashion fun.

You know... this.  [cool]

Festool. I've been involved with Festool for 10 years. And even though my brain is packed full of Festool knowledge, I still learn new things all the time, and often from this forum.

I guess I've been involved with woodworking since a kid when my dad built custom furniture and cabinets as a side business. So, I've been exposed to woodworking for a few more than 10 years.

Shane

[thumbs up]     

 

[peter halle]

if the work is properly supported away from the saw.

Peter

Why would a second clamp even be considered?

Tom

Tom,
I am not automatically saying that it is wrong to have two clamps.  With the miter saw and its usage in the real world there are extreme lengths of materials being cut.  That relates to real leverages and ability to move just as you wrote.  Wouldn't it be a consideration to have a clamp there instead of a hand especially if the user was new to the tool?

Peter

 

[Birdhunter]

I've been doing serious woodworking for 45 years as a hobby/commission and I'm learning every time I read this forum. Dividing the forum is a poor idea. I've seen so many "professionals" with all the safety guards taken off their tools that I shudder. If I can learn something that increases my safety or if I can tell someone something to increase their safety, great!

I've found that understanding what the saw & workpiece might do, good and bad, on a cut; is the first safety lesson. The next safety lesson is to minimize the chance of the bad happening and coming up with a way of avoiding injury if the bad does happen. I have a strong objection to having my hands anywhere near a power tool's blade under power.
If I have an uneasy feeling about a cut, I don't do it. I come up with a way to get the same results safely.

I sometimes use 2 clamps with my Kapex. Never had a bind, but, after reading this thread, I will think twice before adding the 2nd clamp.

One big Kapex safety feature is to let the blade come to a full stop before moving it after completing a cut. I think that's is more important than not using a 2nd clamp.

 

[Rockne]

Thanks everyone for your input.  I'm not exactly a newbie (and am quite familiar with binding the workpiece, and have the piece of wood that kicked back up my arm and into my ches from my table saw hanging on the wall as a reminder), but I have also never attended a miter saw safety seminar.  Also, this is what started me thinking about the concept, http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/11248/safety-manual-miter-saw (see tduram's comment below the piece, but he of course seems to advocate for pull cutting, too).  It's hard to imagine a piece binding if it is flat/square and properly secured, but I suppose it could happen, and I'll take that away from this. 

What the rather overwhelming/unanimous response led me to do is go and watch youtube videos of people using their miter saws (exciting, I know.  I promise I have a life, which is why I was watching those vids at 2:30 a.m.)  Kudos to festool for always using either (and not both) the hold down or the hand to secure/move the workpiece.  The Festool video features the hold down as a way to secure a sacrificial backing board when using the Kapex, moving the workpiece side to side. 

So, I guess the takeaway is 1) use the hold down and hand at the same time only if they are on the same side of the blade/workpiece; 2) don't use two hold downs simultaneously, 3) Festool should add a pneumatic clamp.  I joke, but prior to this thread, I didn't even know such a thing existed. . . . I really got a lot of bang for the buck on this one, so thank you all (especially those tolerating not necessarily my lack of experience, but my reluctance to accept something as being so, just because everyone says so). 

 

[elfick]

(especially those tolerating not necessarily my lack of experience, but my reluctance to accept something as being so, just because everyone says so).

This shouldn't be just tolerated, but applauded... If it weren't for those that did so, we'd still be sitting on our flat planet in the middle of a universe that rotates around us as we get holes drilled in our heads to let out the evil spirits.  [cool]

 

[Slartibartfass]

Thanks for all the info. I always did it wrong in the past using 2 clamps simultaneously and will stop doing that.

 

[mike_aa]

Is there anyway to to divide this forum into 2  forums: one for the rookies and one for the craftsman ( ie those making a living with the tools) ? These posts are just cloudy up real conversations about the tools and the work.  Please take this as no disrespect but really 2 hold downs.

"Every artist was first an amateur" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

 

[Grasshopper]

I like this quote and I love this forum!  I as a hobbyist  am glad that this is the "Festool OWNERS Group" (not the Festool tradesmen only with 20+ years experience Group).  Many of my questions may come across as noob type questions, and I am blown away at how freely many of you are willing to share your experience (both tradesmen and hobbyists alike).  I'll admit, I was nervous when I first began posting on the FOG because I could sense the breadth of experience that was here.  My fears were unfounded, as I've been taken in by many FOGgers (too many to mention) and in short order, I have felt part of the FOG family.  I am blown away at the help, comments, PM's given freely to me.  The learning curve I've gained from the FOG (with a long ways to go) has been very valuable.  The help and education alone that I have learned from the FOG made the price of Festool tools worth the cost on its own.  Having superior tools and fantastic dust collection is just icing on the cake.

The FOG is a special place and I'd say keep it the way it is.  And a big thanks to the FOG from hobbyists such as myself!

Is there anyway to to divide this forum into 2  forums: one for the rookies and one for the craftsman ( ie those making a living with the tools) ? These posts are just cloudy up real conversations about the tools and the work.  Please take this as no disrespect but really 2 hold downs.

"Every artist was first an amateur" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

 

[Scott B.]

Speaking just for me, I learn something every time I enter the FOG.

 

[peter halle]

Guys and Gals,

This forum is here for all users of Festools who want to read and also ask questions.  Wanna be, rookie, professional, polite curmudgeon, etc.

Peter

 

[Scott B.]

Guys and Gals,

This forum is here for all users of Festools who want to read and also ask questions.  Wanna be, rookie, professional, polite curmudgeon, etc.

Peter

Count me amongst the polite curmudgeons.

 

[Cheese]

Guys and Gals,

This forum is here for all users of Festools who want to read and also ask questions.  Wanna be, rookie, professional, polite curmudgeon, etc.

Peter

Count me amongst the polite curmudgeons.

As they say in the business world...+1

 

[AlexThePalex]

Is there anyway to to divide this forum into 2  forums: one for the rookies and one for the craftsman ( ie those making a living with the tools) ? These posts are just cloudy up real conversations about the tools and the work.  Please take this as no disrespect but really 2 hold downs.

It is funny you say this because the pro's often have a worse record with safety than anybody else. Their daily exposure to power tools can lead to complacency and the sacrifice of safety measures in order to get a higher production speed.

I always shiver inside when I see professionals at work with a table saw and put their fingers within less than one inch of the blade. But for them it's routine while to me it looks like a one way ticket to the ER.

I find the subject of a thread like this a lot more interesting to read about than many other threads.

I'm also happy it's not the umpteenth "LOOK WHAT I GOT ME TODAY" thread. If anything is clouding up the conversations on this forum it's that.

 

[IslandBuilt84]

Hello All,

New Guy to forum, been on a jobsite way to long...

Using the Kapex for production siding, framing, and interior trim, and using many other miter saws, I have never used the clamps. Never had a problem if the work piece is supported properly. I have used the clamp to hold a stop to make a lot of the same length cuts. In my opinion using 2 clamps on Poplar or Cedar would not be that big of a problem, but using 2 on a species like Ipe or Purple Heart I would be timid.

Luke