Kapex KC60 already faulty

[chippyjools]

Bought the small kapex barely 6 months ago and its already developed a fault. The power cable has broken inside where is pivots next to a clamp on the slide. Now I could of just shortened the cable a little myself and rewired it back in but why should I as this was an expensive tool still under warranty. It looks like a design fault as I have also got a large Makita chop saw of about 20 years old and its never needed a new cable just because I'm lifting and lowering the saw continuously.
So it went back to the UK service department 6 days ago and when I enquire how come it hasn't come back yet the tell me they didn't have the cable in stock so it had to be ordered from Germany. Well that's just brilliant, a service department that doesn't have any spare cables.
I love Festools because at least they are thinking about the dust extraction and how people need to use their tools but I'm a professional carpenter and I have to say I don't think they are robust enough. Maybe okay in some plush amateurs fancy spotless workshop where they seem to have become a collectors item. My tracksaw also has had to be repaired after 18 months. The motor just wore out when I've had a deWalt for 18 years which never went wrong and was half the price.
Okay rant over....!

 

[Arvid]

mine did that many many years ago when i got one of the first ones that came out.. i am wondering if that gradual short is what causes the motor problems some people have had with it maybe affecting voltage.

mine would only start up intermittently when i went to use it. pull the trigger nothing then move the saw slightly and it sometimes would come on. had no idea what the problem was then decided to open it up and i could see it plain as day.
because since i fixed it i have never had a problem since and it is one of the first ones to come out and i don't even remember how old it is and it has been used a ton everyday.

 

[ChuckM]

mine did that many many years ago

Are you guys talking about the KS60? If so, wasn't it released last year or so?

 

[Gregor]

mine did that many many years ago

Are you guys talking about the KS60? If so, wasn't it released last year or so?

My guess is Arvid referred to his Kapex (the original one), not specifically a 60.

 

[aloysius]

Power cables are subject to damage from mechanical stress.  The annealed copper strands within get pushed, pulled, stretched & even pinched.  Eventually, they fail.  One of the reasons that power flex is different to power cable.  In cables the conductors are either solid copper, or more commonly stranded to allow a modicum of "flexion" before mechanical failure or breakage.

Power flex, by contrast, has multiple, much finer individual strands of carefully annealed copper conductors that allow a high degree of strain & movement before failure.  An extreme example of this is in headphone cables that are wound, unwound, stretched, crushed & otherwise used, misused & abused daily.  But better quality ones last quite some time.

Any tool with a constantly sliding or moving motive source:  SCMS, Radial Arm Saws, even overhead gantry cranes must have particular attention paid to the management of cable movement to prevent undue stress, and extremely high quality flex & connections for reliable long-term operation.  That your tool has failed prematurely is possibly down to poorer quality 3rd party componentry.

Tooltechnic (as far as I'm aware) don't manufacture cables.  I doubt that any tool manufacturer smaller than Robert Bosch does.  They instead use those cables supplied to their specs by 3rd party manufacturers.  Same as the armature & field wiring looms within.  The fact that there's been a significant proportion of high-current related loom failures in the Kapex family indicates to me it's high time Tooltechnic either adjusted their copper conducting element supply co tract specifications or perhaps seek out alternative sources of supply.

When I was younger I bought an Italian motorcycle back in the early 80s.  My first bike.  The company unfortunately used lower grade copper components in its wiring loom, resulting in multiple corrosion-related reliability issues.  A beautiful, powerful, thoroughbred machine sadly let down with dodgy componentry.  Replacing key connectors with more reliable, corrosion resistant alternatives helped solve the issues.

My point is that any tool, machine or even process is ultimately only as reliable & effective as its weakest link.  Trying to save a buck with lesser quality componentry is sometimes an example of false economy.

 

[Arvid]

mine did that many many years ago

Are you guys talking about the KS60? If so, wasn't it released last year or so?

My guess is Arvid referred to his Kapex (the original one), not specifically a 60.

yes i was referring to my 120.

Bought the small kapex barely 6 months ago and its already developed a fault. The power cable has broken inside where is pivots next to a clamp on the slide. Now I could of just shortened the cable a little myself and rewired it back in but why should I as this was an expensive tool still under warranty. It looks like a design fault as I have also got a large Makita chop saw of about 20 years old and its never needed a new cable just because I'm lifting and lowering the saw continuously.
So it went back to the UK service department 6 days ago and when I enquire how come it hasn't come back yet the tell me they didn't have the cable in stock so it had to be ordered from Germany. Well that's just brilliant, a service department that doesn't have any spare cables.
I love Festools because at least they are thinking about the dust extraction and how people need to use their tools but I'm a professional carpenter and I have to say I don't think they are robust enough. Maybe okay in some plush amateurs fancy spotless workshop where they seem to have become a collectors item. My tracksaw also has had to be repaired after 18 months. The motor just wore out when I've had a deWalt for 18 years which never went wrong and was half the price.
Okay rant over....!

mine was actually installed in such a way that it expedited the cable to fail. it was obvious what the problem was then i opened it. wasn't something that happened over time. it was pinched where it should have been pinched instead of clamped in place.

 

[chippyjools]

Sorry, I was actually refering to the KS60 that came out relatively recently.
The point about the cable is that it's clamped very close to where the cable needs to flex. So this restricts the free movement. So that's presumably why it's gone so early in the saws life..

 

[aloysius]

So dodgy or incompetent assembly practises rather than rubbish 3rd party component supply?

 

[Arvid]

So dodgy or incompetent assembly practises rather than rubbish 3rd party component supply?

thats what i feel. because my 120 was the exact same way when i bought it way back when. and had i not caught it in time i might have had the motor failure many others have had. It could effect the voltage sent to the motor with an noticeable drop in voltage. mine was simply on or off. but maybe some just caused voltage regularizes enough to burn up the motor.

 

[aloysius]

Hadn't thought of it that way.  I suppose frayed conductors could cause sufficient voltage drop to induce a deadly current surge in the motor's field coil.

Improbable, but possible.  Curiouser & curiouser said Alice...

 

[antss]

I'm going to sound like a broken record here, so turn down the volume if you want.

Doesn't festool field test these before production ?  I have my doubts despite what some claim.

And supposing they do, who's conducting the tests. Apparently not the right people, cause FOGgers seem to find these issues within a short span.  I expect Ryobi or B&D to iron out their tool's kinks as they go along.  That's why we see type no. 7 mitersaws and mk5 routers that look a lot like the original versions. 

But, I expect a co. like Festool to get it right the first go round.

 

[aloysius]

Just about any manufacturer can release a dog from time to time.  Nobody's immune.  Take for example the ridiculous, almost laughably unergonomic Metabo/Porsche Multihammer for example, or Makita's nigh-on unusable 1st gen cordless lithium ion grinder or "4-in-1" cordless hammer drill/impact driver combi tool.

It's how quickly & effectively the company recognises, accepts responsibility for & remedies the situation for users is what separates the truly great tool manufacturers from the also-rans.