Kapex life span

Kev said:
[member=5671]jmbfestool[/member] I think this, above all other KAPEX issue threads brings home the question ... "If Festool brought out a new and improved KAPEX, would you buy it?"

A brand grows on it strength and a particular product on it's reputation. If Festool are currently working on a KAPEX replacement/upgrade it could be a sales and marketing disaster simply because of the negative attitude brewing towards the KAPEX today. I would put myself in the "very happy KAPEX user" class, but even I would be hesitant over a new KAPEX until it was solidly proven (possibly over a couple of years).

The only way I think Festool could successfully launch a new KAPEX is to launch it with an unconditional 7 year warranty.

ARE YOU LISTENING FESTOOL?

Well seen as festools other tools ive had for a while and have been used alot have lasted me.
I feel festool are capable.

Sooo I would think if festool brought out a new kapex one would think they would have looked at the reasons why their kapex keep burning out and adress the issue.
Other manufacturers have managed to make chops saw to last longer.

Im sure festool are aware and I bet they have had many Kapex's in for repair with motor fail.

Its little annoying because i like the kapex.  I wont be buying another one for the workshop now i dont think because thats where it gets the most repetitive work and i want something which can last little longer. So ive now been looking at radial arm saws. 

 
jobsworth said:
JMB,

It depends. If your using it for 8 years for production jobs every day getting your money's worth out of it. Tools wear out. Mines because I don't do production and use it sparingly compared to you will last a lot longer.

So quit being cheap take it in get it repaired and buy the second one and get back at it.

No mater what, you should always be on my side!!!! [eek]

I wont be buying another one now.

Ill get this one fixed that will be it.

Im going to buy something else but im in no rush.  Ive started changing the way i work by using my table saw more and more now.    Different way of working site and workshop.
Slowly adapting me!
 
My Kapex burnt out at 18 months old and got repaired under warranty, it's now 3.5yrs old and I am expecting the same problem again anytime soon but obviously now it's out of warranty.

I do think Festool should step up and replace the armature etc on burnt out saws whatever the age because going on the number of problems we hear about it is not fit for purpose.

Doug
 
I have been reading about all of the kapex problems,and am holding off on my purchase as well.
Just the other day I went to my local festool shop,and was looking at the kapex that was on display,checking the things that I read about(fence,table,45deg bevel)
I had placed a straight edge on the table checking for a low turret,and the square -ness the the fence,then walked away to look at something else.
When I returned to the saw,there was a small drop of oil on the table of the saw that wasn't there the first inspection.

I don't know where the oil came from,but I certainly won't buy that saw.

I have decided to buy a kapex from a store and not online,because it will be easier to return from a brick and mortar store,than dealing with the online hassle.

Sorry about the rant,but it's bad when  a return is on my mind before the initial purchase has Evan happend.
Charlie
 
I don't own a kapex or have any plans to buy one currently, but if festool were to improve on the design what would you change. Here's what I like about the kapex just from a spectator standpoint.

1 dust collection - again thistle is something I haven't put into practice but seems to be a selling point. If it works good enough to eliminate a hood for site set up  that's a good saw.

2 ease and precision of adjustment. The update front bevel settings that can be dialed in remain unique to this saw and if it works as good in practice as it does fiddling around with it in the store then that's a huge feature.

3 compact size and weight.  While there are lighter and more portable miter saws on the market I'm not sure how their depth of cut relates to the kapex. The forward rod design also seems to be a benefit.

4 speed control. I cut a lot of different materials at times so I love speed control on a machine.

There, I've said some nice things. Again I don't own or use one regularly so these are just observers comments for what they're worth  (admittedly not as much as user experience)

So based on comments on this forum suggested improvements would be in two areas.

Increased robustness of the motor. What do you guys think of electronic controllers on motors? Is there currently overload protection on the kapex? Perhaps a good controller would improve safety while furthering the life of the motor itself. Others might think the electronics over complicate the machine.

Fine tune adjustments for detents, and table flatness via some set screws. I always love these, most if not all of my newer machines have these fine tune adjustments on them just to make up for manufacturing error,

Ditch the lasers add some good light. Maybe the lasers work for you I don't know but in practice I haven't used a machine where I could rely on it. (Again, minimal experience with the kapex).

Anyway those are my suggestions for improving the kapex. Personally I wouldn't want to see festool focus on a cordless miter saw as their next iteration nor do I want them to focus on adding a bunch of fiddly add ons as money making accessories. It needs to be a rock solid super accurate core shop/site machine.
 
Re the laser. I have had my kapex for a number of years now. After I adjusted the lasers to where I want them, they have been dead on perfect. All the time.

I know exactly where that cut will be.

Cheers,

Peter
 
Cool, as I said I don't own the kapex so maybe it's an awesome must have. On other saws not so much, by my experience.
 
Ditch the lasers add some good light. Maybe the lasers work for you I don't know but in practice I haven't used a machine where I could rely on it. (Again, minimal experience with the kapex).

I have a 4 buck flexible led-light (from the blue and yellow store) hitched onto my Kapex. Works for me. And as mine is a demo-model it is dead square. So, no complaints from me.
 
Well I'm glad I sold my kapex a few weeks ago. I do agree it was a very nice saw and it cuts well the few times I used it but man for over 1500 bucks now with tax it should be bullet proof. I had a 12 " Dewalt for over 15 years and cut heavy 1/4  Aluminum angle with it. PVC pipe, 4x4 pallet posts and still going strong. So buyer beware that its the chance you take with it. I just ordered a bosch 10" glide saw from Acme as it's only 549 and free ship. only a 1/3 the price.
 
Peter Durand said:
Re the laser. I have had my kapex for a number of years now. After I adjusted the lasers to where I want them, they have been dead on perfect. All the time.

I know exactly where that cut will be.

Cheers,

Peter

I have a Kapex in my basement shop and have been using one since 2008 or 09. I sold my first one last year but had zero issues with it - I just wanted to get a new one with a 3 year warranty.

The Kapex laser setup with both sides of the blade is fantastic. When they are adjusted they are dead accurate and save that extra pull down to align with your mark. I forget how good they are when I don't use it for a while. I just bought the Metabo cordless miter to replace an older Dewalt 12" and it is also pretty nice but not Kapex nice. The laser reminds me of how much I miss Festool's version when I'm not working with it. Generally , on other saws , the lasers leave much to be desired:(
 
I find this entire thread extremely disheartening.  Although I am not a professional builder, I built a 4800 square foot house, two large storage sheds, several large decks and dozens of furniture pieces using the same DeWalt tools which I've had for almost 20 years.  The only problem I ever had with any of those tools was the pad on my DeWalt variable speed ROS had to be replaced.  All are still in excellent working condition.

After reading about Festool and watching numerous promotional and testimonial videos, I became convinced that Festool manufactured exacting tools, built for the demanding rigors of a professional environment. So when I decided to purchase a track saw, I thought I'd give Festool a try.  I was pleased with the performance of my TS55 REQ track saw and that tool was subsequently followed by a DF500 Domino, a Carvex, an ETS EC 150/3 sander and a CT26.  I am happy to say I have been quite satisfied with the performance of all my Festool tools.  However, I would expect that each of these tools last AT LEAST 10 full years, if not double that.  I will be extremely pissed if any of these tools fails within a few years.  To me, that's just bullsh*t.  I don't think it's the least bit unrealistic to expect a tool that costs two or three times that of a competitor tool to last two or three times longer than that competitor's tool. Any premature failure would definitely turn me off to the brand.

Although I still consider myself a very happy Festool owner, after reading this and other threads regarding the Kapex, there is no way I will consider purchasing one.  My 20 year old DeWalt compound miter saw still works like new and I'm perfectly happy sticking with it.

It would be interesting if there were some consumer agency that gathered statistics on these premature failures.  I'd hope to be reassured that these failures are just a statistical anomaly which occurs in any manufacturing environment and that the vast majority of Festool tools do stand the test of time, but obviously, such is not the case.  Perhaps someone should set up a survey to try and determine the satisfied vs. unsatisfied Kapex/Festool owners...

In any event, it looks like I'll be crossing my fingers and involuntarily tightening my sphincter every time I push the little green "on" button... 
 
I think Festool should be replacing these failing machines with reconditioned returns and then doing an exacting teardown and analysis of what went wrong in the machines that failed.

For tools like the Kapex, Festool needs to maintain a reputation of top quality and reliability. Premature failures should be seen as totally unacceptable.

 
The Kapex dates roughly to 2007. After nine years I think Festool has a good handle on it's weak points are.
 
Good point. It kinda leads me to other thoughts. When a product is first released, it is usuallythis first sku that is most expensive to produce and more prone to faults. As years pass, bugs are worked out, manufacturing improves, and usually you can buy a better all around model for less than the original sku. Later on, a completely new version is built to keep up with competing tech. That's how it's done in the tech world at least, why not here?
 
I wont buy one until they have a longer warranty.  It's scary to me to buy a saw that is prone to problems. I have a Dewalt dual bevel that I have had for 10 years and it still cuts great.  For me 10 years for $350 I got my money's worth.  A longer warranty in my eyes will prove that they are serious that there saw has been fixed and there is no issues.  The saw cost more than double,  so why not double the warranty? 
 
I use the kapex everyday. I have been one the hardest critics of it.  It has grown on me. I used to hate lasers but I have come to see them and enjoy their use on the kapex. The larger arbor spins the blade truer than the other saws. It's compactness, weight,dust collection, and quietness do not make cuts better but make my life better. I bought it again and it is apart of my daily work flow. My local festool dealer says he has had only one motor failure. The owner admitted to pushing the saw to the limit in terms of blade sharpness. I think festool should introduce a 40 tooth low cost fast cutting blade for knock around work. I do feel the saw needs to be run with a sharp blade. I have many wish lists on the kapex but one stands out. Please add and make it an add on to the current kapex. A lock for the detente override. With the stiff but consistent turntable it lends itself to the bump method. Hold board with one hand - engage override - bump handle. Once you figure out a bump it becomes intuitive.
 
glass1 said:
I use the kapex everyday. I have been one the hardest critics of it.  It has grown on me. I used to hate lasers but I have come to see them and enjoy their use on the kapex. The larger arbor spins the blade truer than the other saws. It's compactness, weight,dust collection, and quietness do not make cuts better but make my life better. I bought it again and it is apart of my daily work flow. My local festool dealer says he has had only one motor failure. The owner admitted to pushing the saw to the limit in terms of blade sharpness. I think festool should introduce a 40 tooth low cost fast cutting blade for knock around work. I do feel the saw needs to be run with a sharp blade. I have many wish lists on the kapex but one stands out. Please add and make it an add on to the current kapex. A lock for the detente override. With the stiff but consistent turntable it lends itself to the bump method. Hold board with one hand - engage override - bump handle. Once you figure out a bump it becomes intuitive.

Strange your dealer has only had one motor failure.

Dealers ive spoken to have said that if there is a problem with a kapex its pretty much always the motor that has failed and that the 110v version is alot more prone to it than the 240v. Mine is 240v.  So i say good luck to 110v owners.

Mine has failed twice.....
A dealer has told me he has fixed a couple himself.....
I struggle to believe your dealer has only had one failure?!

Quote
"The owner admitted to pushing the saw to the limit in terms of blade sharpness.  I think festool should introduce a 40 tooth low cost fast cutting blade for knock around work. I do feel the saw needs to be run with a sharp blade"

So not only has your dealer only had one failure your suggesting it was the kapex owners fault. You do know dealers say little white lies?

You are suggesting that people like me are pushing the saw to hard.  You are just making up excusses for festool. 

As if like NO one every uses a blunt blade on any other brand chop saw.  As if no one pushing the other branded tools to their limit.

I dont know the figures but common sense tells me a much higher percentage  of people who have bought a kapex will be using sharp blades more than any other branded tool. Also a much higher percentage of people who own a kapex wont push it as hard as any other brand.
This is because these people have spent alot of money and these people tend to have the mentality to better look after their tools. 

I am not suggesting only festool owners look after their tools. I am saying the precentage is more likely to be higher with a kapex owner because of the cost and the reason why the person decided to buy the kapex in the first place.

When i had my  makita.  I had a new blade and i used it till it couldnt cut any more.  It would normally be cutting MDF. Then I would be needing to cut oak and find my blade cant cut it but I didnt have another blade. So i carried on struggeling. Then got another blade when i was in town.

When i bought a kapex i was amazed how smooth it cut! Like butter!  After a while when the blade dulled. I missed the super smooth cutting. So i went and bought a couple of blades.  So i could always have a sharp blade on me for when i needed it. i did same with my TS55 i have about 5 blades for it.

Oh forgot the Makita i still have I think is 12years old. Still going.  It always has a blunt blade because my dad uses it to cut pallets up.  Mainly american pallets which are made of hard wood. Not like our european pallets soft wood.

Companies dont like the american pallets because they weigh more and are a odd size to our european pallets so they skip them.

 
First, jmb has been posting his projects on here for years, I'm pretty confident he knows what the hell he's doing. Besides the point however. when you design a product, you design it to be used and consider faults with reason. If someone is using their kapex as a type of mallet to drive stakes, I would expect it to stop cutting wood properly, if at all. However, if you're cutting wood, dull blade or not I would expect better performance for the ticket price as opposed to motor disintegration.

The ts saws will not cut if the motor is overloaded. Their drills will not drill if there is an overload. The tech is available and in some ways pioneered by festool.  These motors should not fail
 
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