Kapex life span

[bobfog]

I don't want to cause more arguments, but your assurances are meaningless without more detailed information to back it up. What does "somewhat higher" mean in numbers?

To be blunt, we're not going to be publicly releasing this kind of data. It's not because we have anything to hide. It's because that's not how this is done.

I appreciate and fully expected that. It was rhetorical. But as per my example, headline statements do nothing to quell the problem.

Human nature is such that people naturally want to like and feel good about the things they spend their money on. Internet forums such as this breed "fanboy" cultures, yet despite these two things in Festool's favour, the Kapex seems to get more widespread criticism than any other tool, save for maybe the Carvex. So you have to realise that the idiom that there's no smoke without fire, is hard to ignore with regards to this tool.

I'm not one to rubbish Festool unnecessarily, but nor am I one to blindly drink the Kool-Aid. I hope that in a few years there is a new or revised Kapex introduced with a new motor (along with I suspect some other minor changes to give Festool plausible deniability that the motor was faulty and needed redesigning) so I can buy one. But for now I can't allow myself to part with that much cash with all uncertainty about it's reliability, so for now a combination of my heavy old Bosch slider and small Makita will have to do.

 

[Jak147]

[member=50591]tomscf[/member] well said sir.

 

[Alan m]

no body expects festool to release the stats.

but from my perspective any kapexs failing prematurely is a definetly a huge problem.
I would expect every one of my tools ( I only buy good tools) to last 10 years minium

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

If Festool stands behind the Kapex why not a longer warranty?  A $1500 miter saw is expensive.  I have owned a Dewalt for 8 or 9 years and it gets used hard every day.  I keep a quality blade on it and it still cuts true.  I paid around $350 for it and have been impressed with its life span.

In my opinion it's hard to evaluate life span/the repair issues with the Kapex being that users vary.  I would guess that the majority of the users are not using the saw every day, all day long. 

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

All I can say is my saw should have lasted longer then it has lasted.  I take care of my tools, always wait for the motor to come to full speed before cutting and 90% of the time plug the ct vac directly into an outlet. I know the other guys I work with have different brand miter saws that they had before I got my kapex and those saws are still working. The other brand saws are mainly used for framing and azek work while my kapex is babied and used indoors. I'm interested to see how Festool works with me on the repair of my kapex. The expensive shipping rate did make me cry a little this morning!!! 

Dave

Does this mean your next tool review is a Bosch Hinge Saw. 

 

[rizzoa13]

What im getting from this is that Festool as a company feels it is acceptable to have the motor burn out on some of these saws within 4 years. By your statement that nothing is going to be done you are effectively stating that you are ok with this.

I can understand that the % may not be high enough to warrant a recall or precautionary measures. I'd also be ashamed of myself if something i produced died right outside of the warranty time.  You sell the most expensive miter saw on the market by a wide margin and now you have MULTIPLE customers coming to you saying their motors have all died. Your response is that its not statistically significant enough to do anything? You've lost me as a customer right there, you don't back your product and I'll exercise my right to not buy from you again.

 

[jbasen]

If Festool stands behind the Kapex why not a longer warranty?  A $1500 miter saw is expensive.  I have owned a Dewalt for 8 or 9 years and it gets used hard every day.  I keep a quality blade on it and it still cuts true.  I paid around $350 for it and have been impressed with its life span.

In my opinion it's hard to evaluate life span/the repair issues with the Kapex being that users vary.  I would guess that the majority of the users are not using the saw every day, all day long.

I was thinking the exact same thing.  If there really isn't an issue with the motors on the Kapex Festool could have turned this entire discussion around by saying some thing like "our statistics show that there isn't an issue with this tool  However, perception is sometimes more important than reality so to show that we stand behind the tool we are going to extend the warranty on just the motor by an additional 3 years".    If there really isn't an issue with the motor than this would cost them very little; probably less than the loss in sales of the Kapex from this thread.

In addition, while I would not expect Festool to release specific details about their repair histories they could have said we compared motor failures of the Kapex to the closest tool we manufacture, track saws, and there were only x% more (or even less) Kapex motor failures than failures of motors on our track saws.  This is why we don't see that there is an issue with the motor on the Kapex. 

Finally, lets be honest, this wouldn't be nearly as big an issue if the replacement motor for the Kapex was $100-$200.  The fact that the cost of a replacement motor will buy you a brand new saw from another manufacturer is a significant part of the problem

My $.02

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

10 pages of grown men crying?

If mine burns up BFD, I will have it fixed.  I have more important stuff to do then spend my time speculating on a forum about this.

 

[rizzoa13]

Im not speculating, my motor burned up. Soild addition to the conversation though.

 

[bobfog]

10 pages of grown men crying?

If mine burns up BFD, I will have it fixed.  I have more important stuff to do then spend my time speculating on a forum about this.

Like posting on a forum, to let us know that you have more important things to do than speculate about it, but apparently not more important than letting us know that you don't have time to speculate about it?

 

[Brandon]

I had posted on a similar thread a couple years ago but mine burned up in less than a year as well. Festool obviously repaired it but disappointing none the less. I've had no issues with it since, probably about 2 years but I would certainly not buy another. Of all the tools I own, which is a lot, I've never had a motor burn out. Minus a router trim motor on my Holzher edgebander and that's fairly common.
I think the failure rate on the Kapex, regardless of how small a percentile they claim, is unacceptable given the cost and quality we expect from Festool

 

[jimbo51]

I think that the Festool response to the failure rate is the important issue. If Festool just takes the attitude that the rare failure is something the customer just has to deal with, then I would be very leery about buying an expensive, complex piece of Festool machinery.

As I have said before, I think that Festool should replace the units with failing motors. If they cannot determine what the problem is and correct it, then they should give an extended warranty to the motors.

 

[peter halle]

I bought an electric range with a whole bunch of features.  I paid about $1600 USD.  I could have bought a range that would cook my food perfectly fine for $700.  Both had a 1 year warranty.  I then bought an extended warranty AT EXTRA COST to give me piece of mind.  Ranges have a lifespan and might need repairs before the end of their lifespan.

Oh, sorry.  I went off topic and we were talking about the Kapex here.

Peter

 

[travisj]

So bringing Peter's comments back on topic, what about an extended warranty...

 

[travisj]

And yes I realized the humor in Peter's comments.

 

[Saskataper]

Ok this just pisses me off and I call B.S. Friend of mine just shipped theirs out for repair and it wasn't even 2 years old. Then talking to contractors on site about it yesterday say yeah the one other guy they know with a kapex had to send it back a couple times for new motors. On top of that my dealer has mentioned having to send back saws for that reason.
Now considering the kapex is a pretty rare beast in these parts that is a pretty high failure rate.
I was really hoping to hear that festool would extend the warranty on the saw to give owners and prospective buyers some peace of mind.
Luckily for me the price of it has gone up so much in the past three years I should be able to sell it for what I paid for it.
I bought this saw for the occasional custom job I do, justifying the cost for the most part on the fact that it should be a one time purchase and the quality should pay for itself over the years.

 

[vwdave]

[/quote]

Does this mean your next tool review is a Bosch Hinge Saw. 
[/quote]

I would like to try the Bosch saw but it's huge and dust collection is poor. I would strongly consider one for a shop environment.

 

[Kev]

Statistics can be used to tell any story if you're the one holding them and drawing the conclusions. The reality is we have a response from Festool and it effective says "all is good and we're not making any changes to the KAPEX or to the KAPEX warranty".

We now trust or distrust the response.

I'm going to choose "trust" as I honestly don't have a personal issue with any of my Festools and they're not heavy use by me either.

 

[glass1]

Let's takes Warner's advice. Time to take action and not speculate. Seems many motor failures on this forum plus many know others with motor failures.  Is it time for legal action.  Maybe a forced recall. I am not sure but it is an option. Maybe it's time for festool to offer a 10 year warranty on the motor.  Cars come with 36000 bumber to bumber with 100000 on engine and powertrain. Festool could do the same with 3 year bumber to bumber and 10 years on the motor. If there are truly few motor failures like festool says than it costs them little plus comes a marketing plus for sales, Festool Kapex the only saw on the market guaranteed against motor failure for 10 years!

 

[andy5405]

It's an interesting thread on so many levels. It would certainly stop me from buying a Kapex but I was already in the highly unlikely category anyway.

It does seem that the motor on the Kapex isn't that great but without proper stats from the users or manufacturer it is hard to properly assess that. What does interest me is the mob mentality. I'm wondering whether some people are expecting Festool to put one of their own employees in stocks so disgruntled owners can throw rotten fruit and veg at them?

That said there does seem to be a cause for concern here and FOG is obviously a double edged sword for Festool at times like this. They are more than happy for users to talk about the love story between themselves and their tools. I'm sure any other manufacturer would easily consider a 7 figure sum for a resource like FOG. It should never be forgotten by users that Festool started the love story with their great tools but by the same token Festool should never forget that they would be far worse off without the millions of positive words of solid gold advertising that the FOG community creates. True love never runs smooth and occasionally the community will be demanding, sometimes it will be justified and sometimes it won't. In both cases I would expect a better response than the one Festool have provided so far.

Like all great love stories, you inevitably get to the bit where you have the conversation "you're not the person I married, I'm leaving you for a Makita chopsaw". Festool probably have changed on the back of the price fixing debacle. They set the margins back then but also determined the quality. We are paying lower prices now but maybe we are determining the quality by doing so. We maybe have a choice to make if we want the Festool we fell in love with. Would this motor issue have been resolved under the old regime? Is it considered an acceptable failure rate nowadays under the new regime? If you look at the prices of a lot of Festool gear nowadays we are not really paying that much of a premium if you look at similar offerings from the other manufacturers. Sometimes Festool can even be the cheaper option. What should we realistically expect?

I think it might be folly to consider Festool as the premium brand it once was. It is still a premium brand but the emphasis might be shifting towards the volume market. They had their pants round their ankles with the TS55 release and were forced to act. You might just have to put up with the "Kapex issues" and expect mass market responses.

All the above is rampant speculation but might be useful food for thought. A bean counter in an ivory tower somewhere in Germany will have all the answers. That bean counter might laugh derisively at every single one of my words but I'm right because I'm the customer!