Kapex life span

"After all, it's just money people."

If you do not mind spending $500 per year on replacing a miter saw, then good for you. However, many people cannot afford to do that.

People who use their tools to make a living should expect that a company like Festool, which pushes the idea of top quality, will make a tool that lasts at least as long as the lower priced competition.

I have also not seen the reply on the warranty issue. If a Kapex motor burns out at 4 years, how long does the motor replacement warranty last? If a person is paying $100s for a further one year warranty, then it can still get very expensive if the motor burns out again at 18 months.

There are two issues involved here, economics and trust. People are often not rational when dealing with economic matters, but most people in business know when they are not making a sound investment. Tools that break down far sooner than the time to take full depreciation are probably not a good investment. Festool pushes hard their professional appeal and certainly seems determined to push sales in that market. Most professionals expect expensive tools to have a longer than three year life span.

In regard to trust, when people pay top price for an item, most of them expect that the company will stand behind their product. This is why this issue could be critical for Festool. If customers start to believe that Festool is not producing top quality or that Festool does not care about customer satisfaction, their reputation for quality could suffer greatly. For items such as drills and routers, quality as much as features may greatly influence a buying decision. If Festool loses their reputation for quality, sales will probably suffer considerably.

 
Cost isnt the only thing.

The eviroment is another factor!

Im no hippie but I do like to try and be as environmental friendly.    I recycle as much as I possible can and try and avoid silly waste.  I have also recently needed to use alot of plastic film to rap up things ive made which were transported on pallets.  I have asked my dealer to source me biodegrable rapping film.  They have yet to get back to me so might have to internet source it.

Any way we seem to live in a world now were manufactures are designing products to fail not long after their warranty. This is most obvious in the appliance world.. Dishwasher,washing machines etc.      We all know why and thats to maintain future  sales. 

However this is extemely bad for the environment.  I think this should be some how regulated but I understand that would be difficult and costly to the consumers. I just wish people didnt always just go for cheap crap and think long term.

I dont think this is so much the case in the tool world..... Yet.
BUT!!
Consumers with the same kinda thinking as [member=58344]Hnnguyen85[/member]  this would soon change though.

 
jmbfestool said:
Cost isnt the only thing.

The eviroment is another factor!

Im no hippie but I do like to try and be as environmental friendly.    I recycle as much as I possible can and try and avoid silly waste.  I have also recently needed to use alot of plastic film to rap up things ive made which were transported on pallets.  I have asked my dealer to source me biodegrable rapping film.  They have yet to get back to me so might have to internet source it.

Any way we seem to live in a world now were manufactures are designing products to fail not long after their warranty. This is most obvious in the appliance world.. Dishwasher,washing machines etc.      We all know why and thats to maintain future  sales. 

However this is extemely bad for the environment.  I think this should be some how regulated but I understand that would be difficult and costly to the consumers. I just wish people didnt always just go for cheap crap and think long term.

I dont think this is so much the case in the tool world..... Yet.
BUT!!
Consumers with the same kinda thinking as [member=58344]Hnnguyen85[/member]  this would soon change though.

You've touched on one of the reasons I buy brands such as Festool .. with the expectation that they'll last well beyond the warranty window. Obviously a manufacturer of a power tool isn't going to offer a ten year plus warranty, but I would certainly expect the majority of my Festools to outlast me! Some cheap tools (power tools included) are designed to just get you through one or two jobs ... cheap nylon gears, inferior materials, poor designs ... all the things you'd expect from a "cheapie" that's ultimately destined for landfill.

The prospect that the KAPEX could have a design flaw that manifests under certain usage patterns is understandably disturbing to those that purchased it expecting a Rolls Royce experience. Add to this the further prospect that Festool may not be total transparent about the frequency of failure and you get the outcry we've seen here.

I honestly hope this doesn't all "blow over" as there's a core to this perceived problem that is very "un-Festool" and I for one would like to see a solid conclusion.

Regardless of why you buy the products you do ... when investing in any premium item I truthfully cannot believe that anyone would be happy to simply buy a replacement if their premium product died at warranty period plus one day! Understandable if it's utility was such that you chose to get another .. but it wouldn't be a purchase of joy the second time around [sad]
 
I have a 1 year old Kapex and it hasn't smoked out yet.  I paid $1400 for it.  I have a 5 year old Craftsman that cost me $180.  I beat on that Craftsman and it keeps on cutting.  Is it as accurate as the Kapex? No.  But for many jobs it works just fine.  I fear everytime I use the Kapex that the motor will burn out.  This is based on what I'm reading here and in Festools non transparent handling of this.  For $1400 per saw I expect better.  They got my $1400 because I trusted in Festool's commitment to quality and customer service.  I SUSPECT there is either a design flaw or a manufacturing flaw.  Festool knows but isn't saying.  They probably figure the best solution to this problem is to simply view it as a warranty issue:  its on them to fix if under warranty but on the customer if out of warranty.  Legally this works, but it erodes the brand name.  For this a good deal of that trust has been lost.
 
Peter Halle said:
Gentlemen and Ladies,

Please check your egos at the door.  Then read and carefully compose any responses you make.  The personal and alleged personal attacks here are not indicative of your real life characters I believe.

This thread has been kept open for this long to make sure that there wasn't anything strange going on, but it can be closed if the path goes along the path that it is going.

BE CIVIL OR DON"T POST.

Peter

Hey - this thread was kept open for the benefit of all, back off the sniping and take note of the moderator please.........
Phil
 
The law states that a product should be of satisfactory quality and durable, having a reasonable expected life appropriate to its function and cost, both in isolation and relative to its competitors. So it comes down to whether there is a design fault with the saw and given its price, if it isn't actually of satisfactory quality or appropriately durable.

If it is deemed that a product failed because it was manufactured in a way that didn't make it suitably durable or of satisfactory quality the company is still responsible for repairing the item even if it's out of warranty. The difficulty is the man-on-the-street enforcing this without costly legal action or involving consumer rights groups/government departments throwing their weight behind the situation 

EDIT> To meet forum guidelines

 
Phil Beckley said:
Peter Halle said:
Gentlemen and Ladies,

Please check your egos at the door.  Then read and carefully compose any responses you make.  The personal and alleged personal attacks here are not indicative of your real life characters I believe.

This thread has been kept open for this long to make sure that there wasn't anything strange going on, but it can be closed if the path goes along the path that it is going.

BE CIVIL OR DON"T POST.

Peter

Hey - this thread was kept open for the benefit of all, back off the sniping and take note of the moderator please.........
Phil

    Exactly.

  Some posts were removed from this topic in the best interests of the forum to meet guidelines on civility.

Seth
 
  Here's my view. No, it's not just money as jmb rightly pointed out. There's more to it than that. The poster that said that it was 'just money' is missing something and he also mentioned other manufacturers and not expecting any more from Festool and he's right. As far as I can see  a 3 year guarantee is a 3 year guarantee, so fair comment.Having said that Festool is not just any manufacturer, it is probably the most innovative and class leading of all and charges a premium. That's OK because we want tools that are durable and not obselete in in a year. We want tools that perform to the highest level and we are willing to pay for them or we wouldn't be here.Most of us know that buying Festool is a sound investment and don't need persuading. There is a certain amount of trust involved which is just not there with other manufacturers.There is now a problem with all this in that the Kapex has been identified as being a problem in this nice cosy relationship and some folks - rightly are not happy.The Kapex is very expensive!
 
Are the burnt out motors for the most part isolated to North America? They seem to be or is that wrong? Are all the motors identical regardless of country?
 
Kealevans said:
Are the burnt out motors for the most part isolated to North America? They seem to be or is that wrong? Are all the motors identical regardless of country?

the problems is not unique to NA, I have a hunch that it is a problem with the worm drive on  the armature and its mating gear rather than a winding issue
 
Sal C. said:
Been following this thread and thought there was a page 19?

There probably was. However, a couple of posts up you'll find...

SRSemenza said:
Some posts were removed from this topic in the best interests of the forum to meet guidelines on civility.
 
Maybe I'm lucky, but I've had my 240volt version for 5 years.
It needed a new switch and a service recently but other than that it's great
It sits on the undermount stand in the back of my tool trailer and gets bounced around and abused all the time
I will only replace my kapex with another's REVISED [poke] version
Now I've said that........... Please don't break
 
I must have missed a couple of posts ? If the warranty question was for me ( post 512 ) I bought my Kapex in July/2012 I didn't take  the Saw to my daily workplace for prob another 8-9 months, it never saw any daily use up til that point , I used it at home and for a couple of side projects no major use at all. Then when I decided to bring it to my daily work it lasted around 3 months before it blew up. When it happened I thought there was something electrical around me that was burning didn't realize it came from my Saw at first.When I got it back from the dealer ,fixed under warranty , again I didn't take it back to my daily workplace for some time but decided  to heck with it thats why I bought it ( for work ) and it lasted around 2.5 years the 2nd time around, it blew up this year January.

mac west - not sure how to post pictures but on my saw it says 02/12

I have to say I think this is a great Forum from what I have seen and I try and let everybody I work with/ know who's thinking of buying a Festool product to go on here and do a little research before they buy. I've been  looking at the Domino myself think it could be handy for some things that I do at work but before I buy I'm gonna make sure I'll do the research on it.
 
Time to bump this thread for an update. I finally got my saw into festool for repairs. The armature and brushes needed replacing. Some other cosmetic things were replaced and the saw was tuned up pretty well. Price was $380 for the full service. While im not happy about having to pay that I do want to say I feel I got a lot of work done on my saw for the money, so kudos to the repair department.

I also was able to get a free shipping label to the repair center by simply asking nicely so if your in my shoes you can try explaining your situation and could possibly get free shipping. Figured Id update for closure and I'll leave everything else out except the facts.
 
rizzoa13 said:
Time to bump this thread for an update. I finally got my saw into festool for repairs. The armature and brushes needed replacing. Some other cosmetic things were replaced and the saw was tuned up pretty well. Price was $380 for the full service. While im not happy about having to pay that I do want to say I feel I got a lot of work done on my saw for the money, so kudos to the repair department.

I also was able to get a free shipping label to the repair center by simply asking nicely so if your in my shoes you can try explaining your situation and could possibly get free shipping. Figured Id update for closure and I'll leave everything else out except the facts.

Good to see your back in business and that you think you got some value for your hard earned dollar.
 
demographic said:
Self employed subcontractor carpenter here.
I bought a little Makita compound mitre saw in about 2003 or so and its still going strong with the usage I put it through.
I might not use it for a month then use it a lot the next month and when I'm fitting internal door linings/casings I don't use packers and instead make lots of slow slope wooden wedges which is quite hard on the saw.

So, I'd expect something that cost 8 or so times as much (mine cost £180) to last as long as that at the least.

I am a self employed woodworker/ finish carpenter as well. I bought the Kapex because I was happy with all my other Festool products. I did love the accuracy of the saw at first.....I quickly discovered excessive table wobble, a crack in the case, the motor was under powered, along with a few other issues. (Being in the US, all my Festool products are the 110V motors) I was about to return on the 29th day of the 30 day trial. My application specialist told me to keep it and he would make sure the issues were addressed. Huge mistake.....I should've listened to my gut and returned it. I've had nothing but problems. the saw has been in for service twice....once for the items including the table wobble and the other because the motor burned out. The table wobble was never repaired. This saw is a massive disappointment and a complete waste of over $2K (Bought the stand and support arms too). Festoon has lost me as a Kapex customer. I will never buy one again and I try to deter anyone else from making the same costly mistake.

I've had Makita dual sliding compound miter saws for 20 years. I put those saws through the ringer and I've never had issues like these. I don't like the saws I'm seeing come to market right now. The only one which seems to be the right choice for me now is the Metabo. I'm trying to find the new Metabo 10" dual sliding in the US. So....if anyone knows where I can buy two....please let me know.

 
Id try a UK supplier and see if they ship to you. Either that or Amazon UK so you can get the exact saw your looking for.
 
Maybe by September the new Milwaukee 10" cordless scms will be out and be better. Saw a short preview on tool box buzz. Looks promising with the 9 amp battery.  47lbs.
 
Metabo offer a induction motor model on their 10" SCMS. Not sure if they do that in 110V or just 240V.
 
Back
Top