Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?

Julian Tracy said:
Yea, it certainly does seem as though Kapex 1.0 isn't ready for prime time just yet. 

Aside from the green juice blinders that come about with any new Festool product launch - WHY didn't we hear about this from our neighbors across the pond that have had the saw for a few months now.  Surely they use their saws at different miter settings like we do here.  Curious, huh?

I was pretty close to talking myself into the purchase.  Seems to mirror the iPhone 1.0 - thye finally got it right with the 2.0 version.

Julian
Click to expand...

I?ve been using my Kapex since september -07, 3 months ago it saw a lot of action on a big decking project, it has preformed like you would expect from a Festool product, everytime (knock wood)
 
Julian Tracy said:
... WHY didn't we hear about this from our neighbors across the pond that have had the saw for a few months now.  Surely they use their saws at different miter settings like we do here.  Curious, huh?...
Click to expand...

BECAUSE they might not be experiencing the same problems maybe? (And no, I will not be tempted to swing my saw left to right continuously for hours on end to see if it might develop a problem).
The only "problem" I have encountered with the unit I have bought in the first week of december is that the lasers won't stay accurate in transport (I recently discovered that even just carrying it up one flight of stairs will put them off slightly.) I have spoken to a festool rep recently, and he said it wasn't normal, and I should have my dealer send it in, and I would have it returned to me in 3 days. (I postponed it, because I couldn't be without it at the time and now I'm on holidays)
As for the heat issue: the saw has been available in Austral?a for about the same time as in Europe, and over there it gets pretty hot aswell. So my guess is the scraping issue is indeed caused by changes made to the design/fabrication of the saw prior to its introduction to the US.

The first time I layed my hands on a kapex was in februari 2007 at it's official introduction on a Dutch building fair; the first time I passed the stand most of the festool people were on their lunch break, and one of the +/- 4 saws on display was harder to turn than the others. That, the fact that we didn't have any projects at the time that justified the investment, the problems that that guy was having in England that returned 10(!) saws, and the availibility of the set-version made me postpone the purchase till december, allthough it was officially available in april here.

BTW if I lived in the US I probably wouldn't have gotten the kapex, the price difference compaired to others is just to high. For example: a dewalt 718 without lasers, costs only 50 euro's less than the kapex over here, the ugly, huge hitachi with the digital readout 30 euro's. Another example: I know hilti hammerdrills are better than others, I also know they cost more than twice or three times the price than a higher rated bosch hammerdrill, so I don't own any hilti's but I can choose between a whole arsenal of bosch drills of which the size/powe is most suitable for the job at hand. ... just my two (euro)cents...
 
My Bosch and Makita saws have nearly the same turntable bearing design as the Kapex. The Makita swings very easily but the Bosch requires a little bumping to make fine adjustments Both lock down very securely.

Today I finally got my hands on a Kapex at Force Machinery. That saw moved smoothly with no sign or sound of scraping except the detent spring functioning normally. It slipped into the detents if left alone but pushing down on the detent release allowed the easy bypass of detents.

Like my Bosch saw the Kapex required a little bumping to make fine adjustments but I could easily move it in much finer increments than I could reliably see, maybe 1/10th degree. No problem there. But, with the miter table locked I could still move it with heavy bumps, something my own miter saws won't allow.
 
Bob Marino said:
  We should be hearing something officially from Festool very soon.
Click to expand...

Long time reader, first time poster, here.

I think I can shed some light on why you don't hear from the manufacture in situations like this. I used to work for a _major_ US tool manufacture, this was 10 years ago, but it seems policies have not changed one iota since then.

Their policy that they drummed into you head was that you can participate in any forum, but you cannot identify who you're associated with, and you must never under any circumstances address any specific message that may be a result of a engineering or manufacturing defect.

The main issue they see is liability, even if you are just the lowly mailroom boy, a message posted by an employee of the company could be construed as an official statement since somebody may be able to demonstrate that simply by being employed there gives you access to ?inside? information.

Did you ever call a help line with an issue and ask if this is a common problem and they say, ?yours is the first call we had on it? when in fact you have seen at least ten others report the exact same problem on a forum? Well, that?s part of company policy to never admit that there may be a problem.

They see these liabilities as the number one assault on profitability and just one lawsuit, recall or unplanned change in production can easily wipe out all profits from a particular tool line.

A swift look around the various forums you?ll see that Craftsman doesn?t participate in their forum, neither does Rigid, Milwaukee, or Bosch. Even representatives from the three most popular tool manufactures in the USA; Delta, Porter-Cable, & Dewalt are nowhere to be found on any forum. It?s a sad state that given the ability to communicate in a timely fashion in today?s modern world these manufactures still act like customers are a pest and their concerns can be ignored.

 
Let's see, they inadvertently shut down this forum by demanding the domain name then stop participating in the forum. Sounds like they got a stern talking to from legal.
 
Per Swenson said:
V,

As I said before I don't have one yet,

and I have no idea how they test them.

But do you think they set up 10 sawz in the July heat or equivalent at any time?

I am  asking because I really have no idea.

And what makes these saws different from the loads they sold in Europe for a year

before a box was opened here?

Per
Click to expand...

They are not Porsche. I know they take their cars everywhere extreme for months however with a saw - It is just a saw, maybe a Festool but just a saw. I am sure they do not have an extensive global testing program. But they will fix each and everyone to protect their reputation unlike D_____T that piece of s__t company.... But that is just a whole new story isn't it?
 
They(aussies) should have got a dvd player as well for what they pay compared to what we had to pay.
 
For those wondering about the dvd mentioned... it does not contain anything spectaculair, it's just the festool interactive product tour (ipt), that you can check online aswell. That dvd also came with my domino and my rotex 150.
 
Tony Costello said:
Bob Marino said:
  We should be hearing something officially from Festool very soon.
Click to expand...

Long time reader, first time poster, here.

I think I can shed some light on why you don't hear from the manufacture in situations like this. I used to work for a _major_ US tool manufacture, this was 10 years ago, but it seems policies have not changed one iota since then.

Their policy that they drummed into you head was that you can participate in any forum, but you cannot identify who you're associated with, and you must never under any circumstances address any specific message that may be a result of a engineering or manufacturing defect.

The main issue they see is liability, even if you are just the lowly mailroom boy, a message posted by an employee of the company could be construed as an official statement since somebody may be able to demonstrate that simply by being employed there gives you access to ?inside? information.

Did you ever call a help line with an issue and ask if this is a common problem and they say, ?yours is the first call we had on it? when in fact you have seen at least ten others report the exact same problem on a forum? Well, that?s part of company policy to never admit that there may be a problem.

They see these liabilities as the number one assault on profitability and just one lawsuit, recall or unplanned change in production can easily wipe out all profits from a particular tool line.

A swift look around the various forums you?ll see that Craftsman doesn?t participate in their forum, neither does Rigid, Milwaukee, or Bosch. Even representatives from the three most popular tool manufactures in the USA; Delta, Porter-Cable, & Dewalt are nowhere to be found on any forum. It?s a sad state that given the ability to communicate in a timely fashion in today?s modern world these manufactures still act like customers are a pest and their concerns can be ignored.
Click to expand...
  yes I agree with that statement. and as bob morino shared an annoucement is coming soon.  which if everbody took their saw back and returned it today... the we would here by the end of the day.

mine is going back today, my 2nd one.  I love the saw, just going to wait till the next verision comes out and they have addressed the issues we have.  after all I have $2 gran tied up in this saw, saw, extra blade and the mft stand.

and I am not sure of the issues that might happen down the road, even though I can send my saw to festool for repairs, I am in the  carpentry business, and reley on my tools, yes I have several other saws to use if I had to, but should not have to. 
 
I have to agree with your honeydokreg.  I think I'm having a little bit of Kapex  buyers remorse.  I got a great deal on the saw (was able to use the live.com way before they thought of shutting it down) but even for the $ I saved I'm not sure it's worth the headache.  I wonder how many sales they've lost because of these initial problems.  I'm sure Festool isn't hurting financially but there was a lot of hype leading up to the release of this tool and I'm not sure it has lived up to it.  I know Festool has been outstanding in their individual solutions to the problem, however, as some have mentioned here previously, when you pay this amount of $ for the saw you expect perfection out of the box.
 
Yep, I'm starting to feel uneasy about the purchase. In Canada the outlay was >$1700 including taxes and now the saw is sitting idol in my workshop because I'm not comfortable using it due to the possibility of causing more damage to the mitre components. When I called the reps here about the problem they knew nothing and had to call the US, now I have to wait for the parts to be shipped from the US and I'm in the middle of renovations. They have also informed me that they want to take my saw back to their premises so they can all take a look at the problem and educate the other reps. Thats all very nice but I just need a saw that works, and like yesterday!
I have also got that sinking feeling (unfounded or not) that there could be other (unknown) issues with the saw and for the price I paid I'm feeling a little edgy about keeping it. I'd like Festool to formally extend the money back period to 6 month from the date its fixed so we can be sure that no other issues will surface as a result of the change in parts etc. If that doesn't happen I think the saw is going back.

Wayne
 
waynew said:
I'd like Festool to formally extend the money back period to 6 month from the date its fixed so we can be sure that no other issues will surface as a result of the change in parts etc.
Wayne
Click to expand...

I agree with everyones frustration, my 3rd Kapex is being delivered today.  I agree too about the price, $1300 (U.S.) is a butt load of money to shell out on a miter saw.  But, so far every problem I have addressed to my dealer has been resolved by him directly, or by Festool. 

For the price we're all paying the saw should be perfect right out of the box, on the same hand I know Festool will take care of all our issues, be it now or 12 months down the road.  For all the advanced features on this saw I'm willing to tough it out, and if a problem comes up, I'll tell my dealer and I know he'll take care of me.

What would be super cool is that for all of us that do tolerate these issues and tough it out, Festool should send us all a brand new replacement saw once all the issues are finally taken care of and corrected. 

Mike
 
Mike,

  I agree that would be super cool but doubt that will happen...  However, as a form of appreciation for those of us who decide not to send the saws back, at the very least it would be nice to offer some kind of future discount as a form of customer appreciation...  This is clearly not a product whose initial launch was/is up to Festool standards...

Matt
 
Matt Antonucci said:
...I agree that would be super cool but doubt that will happen...  However, as a form of appreciation for those of us who decide not to send the saws back, at the very least it would be nice to offer some kind of future discount as a form of customer appreciation...  This is clearly not a product whose initial launch was/is up to Festool standards...
Matt
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was being sarcastic - I know that would never happen.  A future discount would be a cool reward, after all we are testing their saw and reporting all the issues, a discount reward would be nice compensation for all our hard work testing out the product and reporting of the flaws.

Mike
 
Update. My saw was repaired and returned today by Robert the Hafele area rep who I must say was very good to deal with. Its working now, I'll give it a good workout over the next 3 weeks,hopefully the problem is gone for good.

Wayne
 
Update- I checked the manufacture date on my Kapex, it looks like it was manufactured May 2008. This particular saw has had zero problems.
 
[quote author=honeydokreg   yes I agree with that statement. and as bob morino shared an annoucement is coming soon.  which if everbody took their saw back and returned it today... the we would here by the end of the day.

mine is going back today, my 2nd one.  I love the saw, just going to wait till the next verision comes out and they have addressed the issues we have.  after all I have $2 gran tied up in this saw, saw, extra blade and the mft stand.

and I am not sure of the issues that might happen down the road, even though I can send my saw to festool for repairs, I am in the  carpentry business, and reley on my tools, yes I have several other saws to use if I had to, but should not have to. 
[/quote]

I am curious are you sending the accessories back also?  I mean it would seem without the saw they would just be a constant reminder of disappointment, and dust collectors.  I have read about the dealers being very supportive and quick to attempt to get things right.  I can't imagine this isn't costing them time and money.  After reading all this I am glad Festool stopped the Live deal or I would be in the same boat with a problem saw or wondering if I just bought a problem waiting to happen.  I was at the San Carlos Woodcraft about 2 weeks back for a Festool Rep meet and greet type thing.  The rep pushed the Kapex and a new drill exclusively without one mention of this problem.  I am still impressed by how the Saw performs in a controlled environment.  I am probably going to get one in the future if they get the kinks worked out.  The idea of sending out parts so a buyer can work on a tool fresh out of the box bothers me at almost any price point but at the cost of this saw the only thing I would need is a pick up sticker for UPS.  Kreg I am sorry to hear you spent $2k on a tool that has cost you time off your job and probably more than a little space in your head being angry. 
 
i kept the mft kapex stand and set my other saw on it.  I like the table.  but I returend the extra blade also, and when I pick up the saw again I am going to get a chopmaster from forrest, the best blade and they have one available for the kapex.

thanks for your comments
 
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