kapex overkill?

HowardH

HowardH

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Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
1,573
I need to replace my deck shortly.  I'm going to go with some sort of composite material.  Haven't decided yet on that.  I don't have a SCMS as of the moment and I will need one in order to trim the boards at a 45 deg angle.  Here is my issue.  I could spend the $1300 for the Kapex but considering I now have the Hammer K3 slider which makes it pretty easy to miter anything, I don't see where the Kapex would do much other than collect dust (pardon the pun) after being used for the deck project.  I'm a hobbyest so not running trim or crown and don't really plan to.  Is the Kapex overkill?  Would I be better off getting a $500 Makita or something else and saving the difference to get a Domino for other projects?  I'm obviously sold on Festool as we all are but I wanted to hear some other learned opinions. 
 
Yes, it's a bit overkill. If all you need is to trim the ends, use a TS with a guide rail. If your boards will be butting the house at a 45, it would be simple enough to make a jig and use a short guide rail to make the cuts. heck, most of the time I'm framing a deck, I use a circular saw and hit the edges with a router to smooth the transition.

I love so many features of my kapex....dust collection, portability.... But for your application and the mention of your slider, skip it and use the money for some other goodies. The domino is a must! It comes
In handy on sooooo many occasions.

And as Shane always says, if you finish your deck within 30 days, you can return your purchase.

*full disclosure: I have never returned a Festool purchase. Recently, my metabo jigsaw broke, so my dealer offered me a PS300 as a loaner. This is the only Festool that hasn't lived up to my expectations. I will be holding out for the carvex.

Just my $.02
Dan
 
In my opinion it would depend on how you will use it in future projects.  If all you are going to do is trim one deck, then most any miter saw would work and being outside, DC may not be that big of an issue.  If you plan on using it in the shop to break down boards and make other cuts, then it might be worth the investment.  Having a slider negates the need for most things, but if you have set-ups on your slider and need to make a quick trim cut, then it might be good to hae an SCMS at your disposal.  I would probably opt for a Domino over the Kapex, though, as the Domino is a game changer for joinery and it would complement the tools you have. 

Scot 
 
As a hobbyist, I'm assuming you do these things for enjoyment, personal satisfaction, etc. You have a Hammer K3 and a collection of Festools - so you appreciate quality.

A compound mitre saw is very useful tool in a shop - but an inaccurate one, a noisy one, a messy one ..? You be the judge!

If you have the discipline to buy a junker, do the job, sell the junker - then do it ... But normally you find a new tool introduces practical uses and you hang on to it.

The KAPEX is a very useful tool, but don't buy it if you truly only see a decking job and no more. Can't see why you'd buy anything for that one job with you current tool inventory.

Kev.
 
I think Dan is right about using a TS55/75 saw.  Like he said make a jig (or use the MFT) for the cuts against the house and just run the ends long and trim them all off when done. 
 
I agree with Kev....I get just as much enjoyment using my tools as much as I do building something, I too am a hobbyist. I think you will be disappointed with a cheap inferior saw if you buy one.

Frank
 
As Brice suggested, you would be better off with the MFT.  Then you have something you will get a lot more use out of.  It's amazing the amount of uses you find for the MFT.
 
Howard,  I agree with Dan and Brice...even with a premium tablesaw such as your Hammer K3,  I think you will still find other uses for a TS55 once your deck project is finished.
 
My take would be how much time - as a hobbiest - you would want to spend taking the material to the saw placement (shop versus deck area) and depending on the design of the deck ( diagonal / picture frame / combination / none of the previous) that you are trying to achieve.

I don't have a sliding table saw ( but wish I had yours  [big grin] [thumbs up]) so I can't comment on the ease of potentially mitering 12' floppy boards - goes back to design possibilities - but my guess is that is not what is the best use of you sliding attachment or it's strongest points.  My guess might be entirely off base.

Going to the Kapex versus other saws issue.  In all honesty, prior to getting a Kapex I made a lot of money doing decks with other brand saws that cost less than the Kapex.  I love my Kapex and the accuracy that it provides and mine gets used to cut every type of material that I commonly run across, but for what your needs are at the current moment you could test ride the Kapex and decide within thirty days or you could purchase another brand, use it, and then sell it if it did not fit into your tool arsenal in the manner that anticipated your future needs.

Just my 2 cents.

Peter
 
If you're just buying for a deck build, no need even for a $500 alternative.  Just get any decent 12" compound miter saw for $200-300 and use it and sell it off or keep it.

Really - an MFT for deck work??  How ridiculous that'd be, to have to raise and lower the guide rail and remove and place the TS saw for EVERY cut.

Come on guys - have you built decks?? 

I have no doubt the Kapex is sweeeet, but the OP has pretty much given us the facts that it's not a need.

Sheeesh - he shouldn't even need a slider for that matter.

And dust collection for a deck?  I appreciate that stuff as much as you guys, but you might as well tell him to buy a jigsaw for the decking cuts...

JT
 
turned out great warner. did you lay out the deck size knowing exactly how long each square needed to be from corner to corner? or did you layout best you could on a fixed deck size?
 
Warner, i have run the boards long and trimmed them on angled decks also. Great use of the track saw. Are you specializing in decks now? Looks real nice, Eric
 
Julian Tracy said:
If you're just buying for a deck build, no need even for a $500 alternative.  Just get any decent 12" compound miter saw for $200-300 and use it and sell it off or keep it.

Really - an MFT for deck work??  How ridiculous that'd be, to have to raise and lower the guide rail and remove and place the TS saw for EVERY cut.

Come on guys - have you built decks?? 

I have no doubt the Kapex is sweeeet, but the OP has pretty much given us the facts that it's not a need.

Sheeesh - he shouldn't even need a slider for that matter.

And dust collection for a deck?  I appreciate that stuff as much as you guys, but you might as well tell him to buy a jigsaw for the decking cuts...

JT
Click to expand...

Well, I wouldn't go out and buy a MFT just to build a deck (and frankly, I don't know who would).  I'm assuming Howard has a TS55 and MFT already so using what he has is a better option than buying anything new.  Beside, for one deck cutting the decking on the MFT wouldn't be all that bad, trying to make a living that wouldn't work.

As for dust collection for decking, he mentioned using a composite.  I always use the vac when cutting that stuff because the big piles you'll leave in the yard aren't going to decompose like wood dust will.
 
Correct, Brice.  I have the TS 75 and MFT 1080 (it's listed in my signature) I'm going to run my boards along the diagonal like shown above but the diagonal will go from the house out to the edge where I will have a perimeter board going all the way around and the 45's will butt up against the perimeter board.  I built the original frame to accomodate that.  I originally used treated pine and it simply didn't hold up.  I don't think I will have any issue with the existing framework.  I suppose I could also rent a SCMS for the few days I would need it.  I also thought about using my MFT and TS75 but I think it would be a pain to try to make a lot of 45's.  I plan on using 12' boards unless it would be better to get 16's so I won't have as many joints.  I would have to alternate a bit to keep the joints from lining up with each other.  I guess it's like anything else, once you buy the Kapex, you find many other uses for it that you may have not thought of.  The comment from Brice about the dust collection in the yard is something I didn't consider and I believe you are spot on with that comment.  It's bad enough with regular wood chips, I can only imagine what's it's like with composite.  My dust deputy would handle that with the CT very easily.   As far as the Hammer goes, it was never in the equation for the deck.  Safety and accuracy is never overkill, IMO.  I don't want to go down that road again in an earlier thread but if you have never tried a slider, once you do, you would never go back.  It's simply that much better, especially when working with sheet goods.  I recently added their eccentric clamp and it allows me to keep my hands at least a foot away from the blade.  Even my wife is impressed with it.  She appreciates the safety and accuracy of Festool as well, she has never said a peep about a single Festool purchase I have made.  I'm very lucky!  
 
I can tell you want one but you're hesitant. You want the deck to be an excuse to get one. In all honesty building a deck with accurate miters can be accomplished for A LOT cheaper. Given the list of tools in your signature it can certainly be done with what you have. That being said, you obviously appreciate good tools and hopefully you think the purchases you've made so far are worth their money. personally i don't own a kapex, but it's definitely on my drool list. It's reviewed very well, I've manhandled them longingly in the shop loads of times and it seems to me a top of the line SCMS. I will buy one and I'm confident it will be worth it. But I won't be using it for building decks.

if you were to spend hefty coin on a high quality tool for thew sole reason of building decks or other such structures I'd recommend a Mafell KSS 400 but certainly wouldn't justify the purchase for just one project.

I think you have to ultimately weight the advantages/disadvantages of mitering on a sliding table saw or a handheld saw or a SCMS. A SCMS is perfect for long lengths of wood and repeated miters and compound miters. The KAPEX in particular seems the most accurate and easiest to set out of any miter saw I've used (every brand out there except for the KAPEX).

Here's what you do, buy the KAPEX, build your deck, you don't think you have a use for it beyond that return it. Case closed
 
A Kapex makes a great deck building tool, mine has been eating PT SYP and Redwood for the last two weeks without complaint.  The idea of buying one for a deck project is pretty silly though.  The only cuts you really want the capacity of a slider are for mitering your rim joist, but do you really want to lug a big SYP 2x10 onto your saw stand when you can get perfectly acceptable results with your skilsaw and a carpenters square?  Hopefully all your framing is covered with a nice skirting, and even a perfect miter is most likely going to open up before you finish the deck.

For laying the field of your deck you are much better to run the boards long, snap a line and cut them all with a skilsaw or track saw.  For your picture frame ( if you do one) you do want evenly spaced (not tight) miters, but that can be done with your skill saw or track saw after the boards are secure.  Basically cutting a kerf to get your spacing.  Having a miter saw is nice for your guard rail cap, you want to try to get those miters tight and they are not likely going to be 90's, also useful for your returns on your handrail if you have one.

So a nice used Makita or Dewalt 10" or 12" Compound miter saw will be able to easily do all of the tasks you need for a nice deck.  You can set it up on a sawhorse stand and leave it in the backyard for the Summer under a tarp and not worry about it.  Then you can keep it in the backyard and use it to cut up scrap wood and branches or sell it when you are done.

As for your decking choices.  If you have to rebuild the structure of your deck you are likely to spend over a Domino XL just on concrete, framing lumber, and metal.  Really do your homework before you buy into the "composite is maintenance free, and green" camp as it is a load of you know what.  What you end up with is a product that can never be refinished and will not biodegrade and most will look pretty lousy in 10 years.  As a woodworker, don't ignore your roots.  SA hardwoods, Redwood, Cedar, TM wood, and even PT SYP at least have the benefit of being able to be made beautiful again, and again. If built properly they can easily give you 30 years of service, can you say the same about composite?
 
How about ...

"the world will end if you don't buy a KAPEX"

... there. Now it's fully justified [big grin]
 
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