Kapex Precision

Joined
Nov 2, 2017
Messages
8
Hello. This is my first post, and my first Festool. After a lot of reading here and elsewhere, I recently ordered a Kapex (from Amazon, which is perhaps not the best idea.) The reason I chose a Kapex over various other saws is that I am strictly interested in a precision saw. Repeatability, ease of setting angles, etc. (I frankly would just buy a second table saw for cross cutting, but I don't have the room.) I don't care about the lasers, the dust system, the portability, etc. I am an artist who works in wood sometimes, not a contractor, so I really only about cutting precision.

My saw showed up, and it appeared to have been treated roughly by UPS, and possibly refurbished (lots of fingerprints, some sawdust). I called Festool to ask about condition, and they suggested I just return it for a replacement. The replacement arrived today. It appears to have been just as roughly treated (styrofoam in the box is broken into large pieces) and indeed the box was open, missing the plastic straps the first one had, and missing at least one small part (an allen key.)

Now to the question - all else aside, there seems to be considerable play in the saw head. It looks like, if I tried, a cut measured at 12" could be anywhere from 11 15/16 to 12 1/16. Obviously I am not going to try pushing the saw side to side as I use it, but it is definitely not that rigid. Doing work where 1/1000" matters, certainly when cutting a miter angle, applying perfectly angled pressure is less likely which will throw off cuts. This also looks like a recipe for kickback.

I asked the person at Festool if this was expected, and he said "no" which is why I ultimately returned the first one. This is my first miter saw, so perhaps I am expecting something that is not possible - but I expected there to be as little play as there is in my table saw fence. So is this endemic to this design? To this type of tool? Am I looking for something that simply does not exist? Thanks.
 
Highly suggest you return the second one too. And then, visit a Festool vendor where you can examine a Kapex in person to confirm that it's in good condition. Since all Festool products have the same price universally, it's to your advantage to see what you're buying. Of course, this is dependent on having a Festool dealer within traveling range.  ;D
 
Upscale is exactly correct. You are getting damaged goods. Return the saw and get one directly from a dealer.
 
Both packed up to go back. I must say, the fault here does not lie with either Amazon or UPS - Festool's packing for this saw is wholly inadequate to withstand shipping.
 
I disagree that the packaging is not adequate.  Many of these saws go back to Festool for motor repairs and the shipping boxes seem to hold up quite well from the pics I've seen.  And UPS is the go to shipper for warranty work.

When you buy from Amazon it's sometimes pot luck as to who actually fulfills your order.  It might be a Bezos employee, or it might be a dealer and it might be from their warehouse or some other arrangement.

If you got an open box , especially a saw with dust and fingerprints - you definitely didn't get a factory fresh saw.  Again , this may or may not be caused by Amazon.  Think we can be pretty certain UPS didn't open the box and make a few cuts with it.  At any rate; Amazon will make it right.  You'll have to deal with the time and frustration though. I wouldn't try for a third strike. though.

Perhaps you should consider one of our forum members for your purchase.  Bob Marino  or Shane at ToolNut can help you out with a Kapex.
 
An update - and an apology to Festool. I talked to them, and they said that when these ship to Amazon they are double boxed. So Amazon seems to have removed the outer box, which the Festool employee I spoke to indicated would be inadequate for UPS.

Yes, I have sleds and jigs. But there are times when the cost of a second saw is justified in order to avoid having to change blades and readjust the angle back and forth.
 
When you end up getting your new Kapex, do be on the lookout for the laser adjusting hex key.  They have been known to work their way underneath the styrofoam between the styrofoam and the box.

Peter
 
In any sliding miter saw, even Festool's there will always be potential for play, especially when doing longer/wider cuts or if you're cutting a bevel.  But the tolerances on the Kapex are in my experience much tighter than on other sliding miter saws I've worked with (I have never used the Bosch glide, however).  Even if the saw cuts perfectly at 90, one thing you will definitely want to check is how much deflection there is when cutting an extreme bevel, like between 30-45 degrees.  My Kapex had a fair amount of deflection doing bevel cuts out of the box, and I ultimately sent mine in for service, which corrected the issue.

clifton clowers said:
Hello. This is my first post, and my first Festool. After a lot of reading here and elsewhere, I recently ordered a Kapex (from Amazon, which is perhaps not the best idea.) The reason I chose a Kapex over various other saws is that I am strictly interested in a precision saw. Repeatability, ease of setting angles, etc. (I frankly would just buy a second table saw for cross cutting, but I don't have the room.) I don't care about the lasers, the dust system, the portability, etc. I am an artist who works in wood sometimes, not a contractor, so I really only about cutting precision.

My saw showed up, and it appeared to have been treated roughly by UPS, and possibly refurbished (lots of fingerprints, some sawdust). I called Festool to ask about condition, and they suggested I just return it for a replacement. The replacement arrived today. It appears to have been just as roughly treated (styrofoam in the box is broken into large pieces) and indeed the box was open, missing the plastic straps the first one had, and missing at least one small part (an allen key.)

Now to the question - all else aside, there seems to be considerable play in the saw head. It looks like, if I tried, a cut measured at 12" could be anywhere from 11 15/16 to 12 1/16. Obviously I am not going to try pushing the saw side to side as I use it, but it is definitely not that rigid. Doing work where 1/1000" matters, certainly when cutting a miter angle, applying perfectly angled pressure is less likely which will throw off cuts. This also looks like a recipe for kickback.

I asked the person at Festool if this was expected, and he said "no" which is why I ultimately returned the first one. This is my first miter saw, so perhaps I am expecting something that is not possible - but I expected there to be as little play as there is in my table saw fence. So is this endemic to this design? To this type of tool? Am I looking for something that simply does not exist? Thanks.
 
I suggest returning the saw to Amazon get your refund and then buy the saw from a online dealer who frequents this site such as Bob Marino, Aldo at InTouch, tool nut etc etc When even I order from one of the dealers who are active here, when I receive my order it’s packaged to withstand a nuke bomb.
 
jobsworth said:
I suggest returning the saw to Amazon get your refund and then buy the saw from a online dealer who frequents this site such as Bob Marino, Aldo at InTouch, tool nut etc etc When even I order from one of the dealers who are active here, when I receive my order it’s packaged to withstand a nuke bomb.
Yes ,all my orders have been very well packaged .
Charlie

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
Call me old fashioned, but I don’t buy tools online unless I know that I will never need support or service.  I develop relationships with brick and mortar vendors, so that if I have a problem, I simply bring the tool to the vendor and the problem is resolved.  This approach has never failed me.

I am not disparaging online vendors at all.  I simply need a quicker and less painless  solution than most online vendors can deliver.

As to your question regarding precision, I have found the Kapex to be very precise in almost all applications.  Severe bevels are generally the weak link for most saws because of that nasty thing called gravity.  If I can cut a bevel upright by setting the miter gauge, I do so.

As to your comment regarding precision to 1/1000”...I think your expectations are lofty.  A human hair averages about 3/1000” in diameter.  I checked runout on my Kapex and it is about 5/1000” (0.005”).  If you are experiencing a variance of +/- 1/16” then there is something dramatically wrong with the blade or the saw or both.  This variance equates to between 0.0625” and 0.125”.  I can’t even accept that error in a circular saw. If your cuts are consistently this bad, then the saw needs attention.

Good luck.
 
I've order all my festool from Tool Nut and never had a problem with any shipping what so ever. Just my .02cent
 
Welcome. Amazon delivers to “Wolverton Mountain”? I buy from Bob Marino. Except for the KAL II, my recycle bin is filled after I unpack my order. I’ve also ordered from Toolnut, never had a problem.
 
ear3 said:
In any sliding miter saw, even Festool's there will always be potential for play,

After returning the two Amazon saws, I finally picked up one of these from my local Woodcraft. It was in good shape, and everything appears pretty square out of the box. But like on the other ones, I can definitely move the head around.

Here is the second cut I made. It cut smoothly and easily - no weird force or anything. The ridge is 0.2mm - not a lot, but more than I'd expect from something this expensive. And having one's hand move, if allowed to, by 0.2mm does not seem unusual. Am I expecting too much to think the saw's rigidity should prevent this? Does this look unusual?

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Make one smooth continuous motion while performing the cut. Any hesitation could cause that sleight ridge similar to when milling on a router table one needs to feed the stock with consistent speed and pressure. This will insure the best results!
 
I’ve seen something like this when the board I’m cutting is twisted or bowed and causes the saw blade to bind just before the end of the cut.

I’m sure there are flaws in technique that could cause the ridge.

I find a easy push of the blade without lateral force (force left or right) produces a smooth cut.

I read somewhere in the manual of an adjustment that can be made if the blade doesn’t cut all the way through the wood.

I also let the saw run for a few seconds before entering the wood. This lets the dust collector airflow build up. Let the saw blade come to a complete stop before lifting the head. This sharply reduces kickback.
 
@clifton  Check if the back fences line up.

You could make and add some fences to them, like [member=10829]Timtool[/member] did:
 
clifton clowers said:
Here is the second cut I made. It cut smoothly and easily - no weird force or anything. The ridge is 0.2mm - not a lot, but more than I'd expect from something this expensive. And having one's hand move, if allowed to, by 0.2mm does not seem unusual. Am I expecting too much to think the saw's rigidity should prevent this? Does this look unusual?

Absolutely...here's a shot of some 4/4 maple I just cut.
 

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I appreciate the feedback and suggestions. After testing it, I think it is not the right tool for me. Head play aside, there are a number of other design choices that make it unworkable for what I want. [sad]
 
I would never want to argue your decision, but would greatly like to understand what you were trying to do that the Kapex wasn't right for.
 
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