i bought a kapex last March, it worked great until last October when the armature went out. I called Festool service sent it in for repair and it was returned to me quickly. today while using the same saw the armature went out again.I don't know if it is something I am doing wrong or what.I only use my kapex to cut trim,i make all my cuts outside so i dont use a dust collector. i use a 25' #10 extension cord plugged into a dedicated 20 amp breaker. The first time i used my kapex it seemed to be under powered compared to miter saws i have used in the past.I own several more tools made by festool and have had no problems with any of them, and the kapex is by far the best miter saw i have ever owned. I just expected to get better service from a miter saw thats as pricey as the kapex.
kapex second armature in 8 months
- Thread starter Weiche
- Start date
Hello, I am obviously not someone who posts comments on the FOG but felt compelled to. I have just brought my kapex in for what appears to be another armature. I' m sure it will come back repaired well and in a timely manner and my local Festool dealer gives top notch service. But still I have no kapex for a week or two and I use it every day and really rely on it. I do have other older saws to use while I wait but why. Do I like the saw-yes, does it perform better than my other saws-yes, would I buy it again -maybe. I have many other Festool tools and have had no issues at all with them. I believe there is clearly a problem with the armature of these saws and question why we need to pay the shipping on what appears to be a chronic problem?
Thanks for taking the time to read my little rant, I feel better now.
Thanks for taking the time to read my little rant, I feel better now.
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I'd like to first start by offering my apologies to each of you on the inconvenience, frustration and issues with your Kapex. I definitely understand.
There are numerous things that can contribute to motor damage: issuing extension cords other than those specified in the manual, blades that are dull or not cleaned periodically, etc. I'm certainly not accusing anyone of those things, just offering an explanation. While having three people post in this thread about armatures, and I've seen a few others on the forum over the years, I've talked to our service department and been assured that this is not a "chronic" problem by any means. The number of Kapex units in the wild versus the number of issues is very insignificant in terms of percentage of affected units.
That said, we realize that professionals are out there relying on their tools and do our best to get tools repaired and returned as quickly as possible. I'd recommend working directly with Festool service instead of going through your dealer, which just creates an unnecessary middle man that may slow the process.
As for shipping costs, our warranty outlines the terms of warranty service and who is responsible for shipping costs. If you feel that your circumstances are exceptional, like failure of the same component more than once, I would encourage you to bring that to the attention of the service department when you contact them.
Again, sorry for the problems with each of your saw. I'm not trying to minimize the impact of having your Kapex out of commission, but instead trying to offer some insight and recommendations to our customers.
Shane
There are numerous things that can contribute to motor damage: issuing extension cords other than those specified in the manual, blades that are dull or not cleaned periodically, etc. I'm certainly not accusing anyone of those things, just offering an explanation. While having three people post in this thread about armatures, and I've seen a few others on the forum over the years, I've talked to our service department and been assured that this is not a "chronic" problem by any means. The number of Kapex units in the wild versus the number of issues is very insignificant in terms of percentage of affected units.
That said, we realize that professionals are out there relying on their tools and do our best to get tools repaired and returned as quickly as possible. I'd recommend working directly with Festool service instead of going through your dealer, which just creates an unnecessary middle man that may slow the process.
As for shipping costs, our warranty outlines the terms of warranty service and who is responsible for shipping costs. If you feel that your circumstances are exceptional, like failure of the same component more than once, I would encourage you to bring that to the attention of the service department when you contact them.
Again, sorry for the problems with each of your saw. I'm not trying to minimize the impact of having your Kapex out of commission, but instead trying to offer some insight and recommendations to our customers.
Shane
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Like I said, from all of the information that I have, these issues are extremely isolated. I can't give out the number of Kapex units sold, but we're talking an extremely small number of armature/motor issues despite having three reports in this thread.
Here are the recommended extension cord ratings:
Extension Cord Ratings
100 Ft. Not recommended
Here are the recommended extension cord ratings:
Extension Cord Ratings
100 Ft. Not recommended
Thanks for your response Shane. Just for you to know. I have only used Festool blades and Festool vacuums, always plugged directly into an outlet. The only thing I can say about my usage is that I guess it could be considered heavy, but that is one of the reasons I purchased the kapex besides the expected quality of cuts from a premium machine. The saw performs well but I still see a problem with the armature. I'm sure from a company perspective based on units sold it must be a small percentage. I'm just relating to my experience and I think some others. By no means is this a kapex bashing, I actually quite like the saw. I just wish it was as reliable as many other of my Festool tools as it becomes more expensive to own based on shipping/down time. Also to be fair as I said before I probably would purchase it again it does perform better than the many other cms I have owned, but I would think twice. Thanks
I've been around enough online tool geek conversations to have my own survey and its very clear that armatures are not a defect. Its also clear that they are a weak spot in the Kapex. I'd like to get a kapex, I'd almost buy one for a job coming up in a month to set the saw inside, but I'll wait for version 2 as i'm sure the motor will be beefed up (at least should be).
Hi duburban, based on your experience and survey why would you wait for version 2? Who knows when that will be? I'm basing this on my experience with the kapex and some others on the fog. You post doesn't inspire much confidence in the saw as you do not own one and are going to wait for version 2? Thanks
Personally I wouldn't wait for a version 2 if I was in the least bit interested in a Kapex for the following reasons:
1. Festool's development process is very often 6 to 7 years.
2. There isn't a guarantee that there will be a version 2. The RAS is a perfect example. There are others as well that haven't been updated. One could argue that the RAS is toward the lower end of the pricing scale so the engineering costs to update it might not be economically feasible, but still.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Peter
1. Festool's development process is very often 6 to 7 years.
2. There isn't a guarantee that there will be a version 2. The RAS is a perfect example. There are others as well that haven't been updated. One could argue that the RAS is toward the lower end of the pricing scale so the engineering costs to update it might not be economically feasible, but still.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Peter
Jim Green said:
Ok, More Disclosure. I decided to go back to school so my work season isn't 365 days a year. If i was working year round I would buy one. What really turns me on about the kapex isn't the accuracy, my other saws are fine, but the dust collection. Since I won't be full time for another few years the Kapex is on the back burner and hopefully by then there will be another version with a go at a rugged 15amp motor.
A few public premature failures obviously don't mean much but for such an expensive tool I'd like to perceive the motor as a strong point. But again, this is all about perception. But having spent way too much time on the internet reading about tools I've never seen anyone talk specifically about the armature of any saw more than the kapex. Am I wrong? Maybe, but again this is my survey.
Aside from the dust collection though, this saw hits some other great points. Wings attach directly to the bed! Light, etc...
I'm not sure why I feel the need comment on this thread. I saw it yesterday, read it and moved on but as a Festool owner in the process of upgrading some of my older Festool products and adding new Festool products, I couldn't help but be curious to see what direction the comments would go.
It's interesting how three little words in a response can change the tone and feel of a post. [eek]
There's no doubt that we all love our Festool products and we all agree that Festool manufactures quality tools. We wouldn't pay the higher prices for Festool if we didn't think they were worth it.
If you look at the numbers of Festool Kapex owners just on this message board, the Festool Customer Service/Marketing Rep is exactly right. The occurrence of armature failure in the Kapex is "extremely small." But still, three board members reporting multiple failures over a relatively short period of time. It reminds me of the politician who downplayed a spike in the crime rate. He basically said the the occurrence of crime is so uncommon that the odds of being a victim is "extremely small." The politician is exactly right unless you're one of the victims, then you don't care about odds and statistics. No one wants to be a Festool armature victim.
If I spend $1375 on the best miter saw money can buy, I expect it to have an armature second to none! And I really don't want to have to spend the money to ship my $1375 back to Festool even if I'm only one of just a few with this problem out of thousands sold.
No one wants to be the .01% Kapex owner!!! If I spend $1375 on this beautiful, expertly made miter saw, I want to know exactly how to use my saw so I don't have an armature issue.
I guess as a potential buyer, I want a clear answer as to the cause of this rare situation. Being told that the odds of it happening to me are extremely low is completely unsatisfying! Is it a user issue and if it is, how do I avoid it? If I keep my blade clean and sharp, plug my saw into my CT and use the CT power cord, I'll be fine. Or is it an isolated manufacturing issue? Who does Festool buy their armatures from? You can't tell me that they have a 100% yield on their armature production. If Festool identifies the problem as an extremely isolated armature issue, then they should cover it and pay the shipping. Openly agreeing to that would speak volumes and instill confidence with potential buyers and if the issue is so over-the-top extremely rare, then it won't break the Festool bank account.
Just my .02.... Time to go make some sawdust which is NOT extremely rare. [big grin]
It's interesting how three little words in a response can change the tone and feel of a post. [eek]
There's no doubt that we all love our Festool products and we all agree that Festool manufactures quality tools. We wouldn't pay the higher prices for Festool if we didn't think they were worth it.
If you look at the numbers of Festool Kapex owners just on this message board, the Festool Customer Service/Marketing Rep is exactly right. The occurrence of armature failure in the Kapex is "extremely small." But still, three board members reporting multiple failures over a relatively short period of time. It reminds me of the politician who downplayed a spike in the crime rate. He basically said the the occurrence of crime is so uncommon that the odds of being a victim is "extremely small." The politician is exactly right unless you're one of the victims, then you don't care about odds and statistics. No one wants to be a Festool armature victim.
If I spend $1375 on the best miter saw money can buy, I expect it to have an armature second to none! And I really don't want to have to spend the money to ship my $1375 back to Festool even if I'm only one of just a few with this problem out of thousands sold.
No one wants to be the .01% Kapex owner!!! If I spend $1375 on this beautiful, expertly made miter saw, I want to know exactly how to use my saw so I don't have an armature issue.
I guess as a potential buyer, I want a clear answer as to the cause of this rare situation. Being told that the odds of it happening to me are extremely low is completely unsatisfying! Is it a user issue and if it is, how do I avoid it? If I keep my blade clean and sharp, plug my saw into my CT and use the CT power cord, I'll be fine. Or is it an isolated manufacturing issue? Who does Festool buy their armatures from? You can't tell me that they have a 100% yield on their armature production. If Festool identifies the problem as an extremely isolated armature issue, then they should cover it and pay the shipping. Openly agreeing to that would speak volumes and instill confidence with potential buyers and if the issue is so over-the-top extremely rare, then it won't break the Festool bank account.
Just my .02.... Time to go make some sawdust which is NOT extremely rare. [big grin]
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Mike,
I tried to make it clear that I was not dismissing or minimizing the impact of even one instance where a customer experienced a motor failure. I was responding to the phrase "chronic problem" used by one of the forum members by addressing the quantity of failures in proportion to the number of Kapex. I have seen on the forum before where there is a "the sky is failing" reaction to even a single incident and then subsequent speculation by those who don't even have the tool or experience the problem.
I can't address the specific cause of the failures reported because I don't know the circumstances. Here are some possible causes:
- Incorrect blade for the application
- Dull blade
- Dirty blade
- Improper extension cord gauge or length. Note: the recommendations in the manual pertain to operating the Kapex only, not the Kapex and CT
- Improper feed rate, if you can hear or feel the saw struggling to make the cut, you need to slow down
- Using a generator to power the saw
- Using a circuit that is powering other equipment or appliances. You should have a dedicated circuit to operate a CT and Kapex
- Temporary electric for new construction sites (i.e. 12-2 wire strung hundreds of feet, which is the same as an extension cord)
Again, I'm not accusing any of those members who have reported issues of doing any of the things listed above.
As far as I know, we produce our own motors. I know that's the case for brushless motors and would assume the same is true for the Kapex. Regardless of whether they are produced in-house or outsourced, Festool has very high tolerances for our manufacturing partners to prevent failures. Even with that in mind, if it was a $100,000 saw (or car, or other product) there would still be a certain percentage of failures.
We have a 3 year warranty that covers such issues and there is no parts or labor charge incurred to customers. During the first year of warranty, we pay for shipping to and from the repair center, the 2nd and 3rd years we pay for return shipping. Like I mentioned in my initial reply, if a customer experiences multiple failures of the same component, I would suggest they discuss the circumstances with the repair department. There may be exceptions made to the warranty policy for these types of situations, but I can't publicly guarantee any change to a policy. Exceptions would be handled on a case-by-case basis.
Regarding a potential isolated manufacturing issue, we can ask that the three members who had issued post the manufacturing date from the label on their saws (marked as ##/##, denoting month and year of manufacture). That would give a sense of whether it's a particular time frame where there was a problem. But in speaking with our service department manager, which I did again over this weekend, that does not appear to be the case.
Not sure I like being compared to a politician, but I guess that comes with the territory. [sad]
Shane
I tried to make it clear that I was not dismissing or minimizing the impact of even one instance where a customer experienced a motor failure. I was responding to the phrase "chronic problem" used by one of the forum members by addressing the quantity of failures in proportion to the number of Kapex. I have seen on the forum before where there is a "the sky is failing" reaction to even a single incident and then subsequent speculation by those who don't even have the tool or experience the problem.
I can't address the specific cause of the failures reported because I don't know the circumstances. Here are some possible causes:
- Incorrect blade for the application
- Dull blade
- Dirty blade
- Improper extension cord gauge or length. Note: the recommendations in the manual pertain to operating the Kapex only, not the Kapex and CT
- Improper feed rate, if you can hear or feel the saw struggling to make the cut, you need to slow down
- Using a generator to power the saw
- Using a circuit that is powering other equipment or appliances. You should have a dedicated circuit to operate a CT and Kapex
- Temporary electric for new construction sites (i.e. 12-2 wire strung hundreds of feet, which is the same as an extension cord)
Again, I'm not accusing any of those members who have reported issues of doing any of the things listed above.
As far as I know, we produce our own motors. I know that's the case for brushless motors and would assume the same is true for the Kapex. Regardless of whether they are produced in-house or outsourced, Festool has very high tolerances for our manufacturing partners to prevent failures. Even with that in mind, if it was a $100,000 saw (or car, or other product) there would still be a certain percentage of failures.
We have a 3 year warranty that covers such issues and there is no parts or labor charge incurred to customers. During the first year of warranty, we pay for shipping to and from the repair center, the 2nd and 3rd years we pay for return shipping. Like I mentioned in my initial reply, if a customer experiences multiple failures of the same component, I would suggest they discuss the circumstances with the repair department. There may be exceptions made to the warranty policy for these types of situations, but I can't publicly guarantee any change to a policy. Exceptions would be handled on a case-by-case basis.
Regarding a potential isolated manufacturing issue, we can ask that the three members who had issued post the manufacturing date from the label on their saws (marked as ##/##, denoting month and year of manufacture). That would give a sense of whether it's a particular time frame where there was a problem. But in speaking with our service department manager, which I did again over this weekend, that does not appear to be the case.
Not sure I like being compared to a politician, but I guess that comes with the territory. [sad]
Shane
Slappy
Member
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I agree with 100% even a rare instance is gonna upset a potential buyer
In my case the cost of a Kapex is a major expenditure , I'm very cautious when the price is so far above other MFGer's units
I would be suspect of the above with the poster who had this happen twice
could it be that the Kapex is just not a contractor grade machine ? Not able to to work in environment that is in the above list ?
in that case the armature problem wouldn't apply to my situation .
bears watching is what I will do & hold off for now keep my Delta & apply that $$ for a Kapex toward the "other" tools my shop needs .
this is ALL " I M H O " & should not be taken by anyone else for or against buying a Kapex
The price of a Kapex is a consideration for anyone. Everyone can put their own spin on statistics and even draw graphs if they want. I have read far more positives here than negatives about the Kapex. That isn't a spin, that's real. Search if you want.
All I can say is if another brand of miter saw works for you guys, keep using it. Make money. Save money and use it to buy other tools from whatever manufacturer you wish.
Rock on and keep making sawdust. Hopefully you are not breathing it. Or vacuuming it off of prize winning African violets and then suck off a leaf and have to hear the 10 minute sermon.
Peter
All I can say is if another brand of miter saw works for you guys, keep using it. Make money. Save money and use it to buy other tools from whatever manufacturer you wish.
Rock on and keep making sawdust. Hopefully you are not breathing it. Or vacuuming it off of prize winning African violets and then suck off a leaf and have to hear the 10 minute sermon.
Peter
Yep. Another time in a thread devoted to worst days with strangest customers. [scared]
Peter
Peter
Slappy
Member
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those Violet leaves are VERY valuable to collectors as the collector can propagate more rare plants from just the leavesPeter Halle said:
( they can get up to 10 or more plants from a single leaf ),
I'll bet that owner had a FIT ! L O L
I do feel sorry for you [crying]
