Kapex Service - Dreaded Puff of Smoke

[deepcreek]

On Friday afternoon at 5:30pm while cutting a piece of 3/4" Poplar, my previously beloved Kapex emitted the dreaded puff of smoke.

I've had it eight years in an air conditioned shop on a dedicated 20amp circuit and treated it with kid gloves.  It is by no means a daily driver.  We actually have a 20-year old Dewalt miter saw that we use for all rough cuts.  It's still going strong.  Imagine that!

I immediately recalled the recent post on the F.O.G. where Festool USA released a statement about this problem saying, "Since 2017 we have made improvements to the internal structure of motor components to produce an even more reliable machine."https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-announcements/message-from-festool-about-kapex-miter-saw/ 

I foolishly hoped they are repairing the existing saws free of charge since they have finally acknowledged the issue.  The answer is they are sort of making good on a bad design.

I called Festool USA first thing Monday and was told unequivocally that because my Kapex was out of warranty, I would have to pay for the shipping to Festool Service using the company of my choice.  Fortunately having inherited the "hoarder" gene from my Mom, I kept the original box from [member=5]Bob Marino[/member].  UPS ground from Houston, Texas to Lebanon, Indiana for a 60 pound box cost me $80.26.

I heard back from Festool Service yesterday (Thurdsay) afternoon which was quick.  The total cost to me is $103.27 which includes $20 freight large, $78 "labour", and $5.27 sales tax.

The good news is the materials required for the repair were free.  This includes the 203552 End Shield Assembly (armature & bearings) at $167.64, 494785 Brush Holder with Brushes at $20.79 as well as the 494970 Field Assembly at $82.50.

The materials come to a total of $270.93 and my total outlay came to a total of $183.53 so Festool is bearing the brunt of fixing the problem.

Am I happy?  Not really but I can see the logic in splitting the costs this way.  Has this affected my brand loyalty?  Yes, there's no doubt in my mind about that.  Festool has slipped in my eyes from a company that made the best tools available and had second to none customer service to one who is no different than the other major tool manufacturers other than being more expensive.

Thank you Festool Service for the fast turnaround.  Hopefully, I will get my saw back next week.

I hope that this summary helps someone else facing this problem.

Joe

 

[RKA]

Thanks for sharing the information!  For my own part I had resigned to order the parts and fix it myself when the day comes.  The numbers you present certainly make the case to send it in.  Some folks may not be pleased, but I think it's a reasonable measure for out of warranty saws and something I would cough up to get my Kapex back to working order. 

 

[ChuckM]

Thanks for sharing your story. The repair cost was on the whole acceptable (compared to some previous quote that was about 60% of the cost of a new saw) as Festool charged only labour plus some. Admittedly, given the infamous history of this saw, it would have been a happier outcome if Festool had charged only taxes, but nothing else for the service.

If Festool indeed has overcome the motor problem as it asserts, then this might be the last motor fix you would need as your saw should be installed with new and improved parts.

My previous Dewalt saw was at least 15 years old, used as much as my Kapex, and was still going strong like new when I sold it. A saw motor that could go south after 5 to 10 years of regular usage by a hobbyist should not be carried under the Festool brandname.

 

[morts10n]

Same with one that went south after 18 months and one at 4 yrs

 

[deepcreek]

I was concerned about how much the repair was going to cost when I sent it in but figured it couldn't be as much as $1,475 for a new Kapex.

Frankly, I was relieved at the amount of the cost estimate.  I chose the "perform the repair as per the quotation" option.  Incidentally, they sent it in a PDF that cannot be opened on a phone and took a lot of work to get open on my PC.  I ended up just calling them.

They also gave me the option of having them "dispose of the machine free of charge" or "send the machine back to me unrepaired and dismantled at the shipping costs listed".

Festool Service deserves a big thank you. 

THANK YOU!

They received my Kapex on Wednesday afternoon, sent me a repair estimate on Thursday afternoon, received my authorization/payment this morning (Friday) and got it repaired and shipped out to me this afternoon.

Great job guys!

Joe

 

[Cheese]

Good to hear you received some good service Joe...albeit at a less than “free” level.

I am curious if when you fire up the Kapex again, if there is a noticeable difference in sound level or some other palpable difference that shouts out “something’s different here”.

 

[threesixright]

On Friday afternoon at 5:30pm wh
Am I happy?  Not really ...

I actually would be.

I think if your DeWalt broke after so many years of service, you can question if they would give you the same deal? Would you also be disappointed? Some of these (brands) do go up in smoke as-well.

Apparently many here seems to think when a Kapex goes up in smoke, it can only be one single cause. I get the flawed history of this saw, but it doesn't strike me as realistic.

 

[jeh]

I don’t know what you expected out of an 8 year old tool. The 20amp circuit “requirement” continues to be referenced when it is not relevant. It does make people feel good. The tool had a design issue and they fixed it for a reasonable cost. No other company would give away a repair on a tool that is 3 years out of warranty or even give you the parts. To expect more is unreasonable.

Do you think a car dealer would repair a car that it 5 years out of warranty for free. We (everyone who reads FOG) represent a minuscule number of their users and have no clue what the failure rate is.

 

[Cheese]

I think if your DeWalt broke after so many years of service, you can question if they would give you the same deal? Would you also be disappointed? Some of these (brands) do go up in smoke as-well.

I'm sure Dewalt wouldn't offer the same repair deal but then again the Dewalt only cost $300.

Well, it could also be argued that if Joe hadn't used the Dewalt saw for all of the heavy lifting, the Kapex may have smoked out earlier, possibly when it was still under warranty.  [tongue]

Let's all just hope that Festool has indeed found a cure for this issue, we could all use some peace of mind over the Kapex.

 

[ProCarpenterRVA]

I don’t know what you expected out of an 8 year old tool. The 20amp circuit “requirement” continues to be referenced when it is not relevant. It does make people feel good. The tool had a design issue and they fixed it for a reasonable cost. No other company would give away a repair on a tool that is 3 years out of warranty or even give you the parts. To expect more is unreasonable.

Do you think a car dealer would repair a car that it 5 years out of warranty for free. We (everyone who reads FOG) represent a minuscule number of their users and have no clue what the failure rate is.

This. [emoji3595]

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[ChuckM]

I think if your DeWalt broke after so many years of service, you can question if they would give you the same deal? Would you also be disappointed? Some of these (brands) do go up in smoke as-well.

I'm sure Dewalt wouldn't offer the same repair deal but then again the Dewalt only cost $300.

Well, it could also be argued that if Joe hadn't used the Dewalt saw for all of the heavy lifting, the Kapex may have smoked out earlier, possibly when it was still under warranty.  [tongue]

Let's all just hope that Festool has indeed found a cure for this issue, we could all use some peace of mind over the Kapex.

I hope so, too, as my Kapex, if it smokes, will at least have a new and better life.

I  certainly expect more from Festool than Dewalt or others...after all that was why I forked out so much for the mitre saw in the first place...the same reason why my car is twice as expensive as an average car of the same kind on the street.

If I don't get the kind of value from my car or from my dealership I expected, I will walk away from the make or car dealership on my next purchase. My money, my call.

 

[xedos]

Actually Jim , many car dealers do exactly that.  I just got a notice for a 15 year old LandCruiser for a defective air bag something or another to be replaced.  I just need to call a dealer, not necessarily the one I purchased it from for an appointment. No charge, and I can guarantee their shop rate is more than $78/hr.

Now, I think we all understand that they're only doing this because the government is bullying them into doing so. I've also had two levels go out of kilter that have been replaced after ten plus years. One Stabila, and one Empire. Replaced without much fanfare with a newer model since mine were no longer in production. 

My point is, other companies do service and replace old equipment years out of warranty. Not the norm, but it happens.  Sometimes coerced, sometimes out of goodwill.  The other current flowing through this saga is expectation. I think it's fair for guys that buy the most expensive mitersaw on the market from a company that positions itself as the "best" to expect their saw to last as long or longer than a "regular" brand like dewalt, makita, or hitachi. Good dust collection doesn't make up for an xtra two to three times the cost especially at the expense of longevity in most people's eyes.

It's been mentioned that dewalt won't extend any goodwill for that twenty year old saw. I'm sure that's correct. Heck they probably don't even have parts for it.  But , the expectation when it was purchased for $2-300 was much lower because it wasn't the most expensive, or held out to be the best.  There was an expectation that it would last a decade. 

Festool is in a bit of a pickle because of their market position with this saw. Clearly there was an issue evidenced by the failure reports around here and elsewhere. And because they "improved" the motor - something they don't normally do during a product's cycle.  There is no big brother squeezing them to make good , it's not a documented saftey issue.  They also must realize that if they tell the customer base sorry - they'll get a black eye for certain.  Festool seems to be doing the best thing to both navigate a path between sinking their bottom line and keeping their reputation intact.

 

[deepcreek]

In defense of my admiration for the DeWalt DW705, I used it five days a week in my construction business for sixteen years before it moved into a cushy home in the air conditioned shop.

It's cut treated fence posts and Hardie trim and 2x framing lumber in addition to a lot of millwork and who knows what else.  Sometimes run on a generator and always with long jobsite extension cords.  Now it cuts 8/4 hardwoods (mostly Mesquite and Pecan) down to size.

It's even been unintentionally left out in the rain and yet this saw is still going strong after twenty years.

Perhaps that set an unrealistic expectation for the Kapex's longevity.  The Kapex certainly is more accurate and feature rich with far superior dust collection.  It also cost four times as much.

In the end, I'm satisfied with the way Festool handled splitting the costs on the repair.  I'm just a bit disillusioned that it (and so many other KS 120's) required the motor to be rebuilt in the first place.

 

[deepcreek]

I got my Kapex back from Festool repair yesterday (Wednesday) and shipped it back to them today (Thursday).

There was concealed damage from UPS that resulted from the saw being dropped upside down. The impact went from the motor housing down through the miter turntable.  Now it does not want to move and the locking handle doesn't work.  There are also some cosmetic dings that might not bother some people but bother me.

Arrrrrgghh!!!

This could not happen at a worse time.  I'm right in the middle of a project with a firm deadline only three weeks away and have compound miters to cut.

Ethically, I'm not willing to "borrow" a Kapex from a local dealer by purchasing it with the intent to return it within 30 days.

Joe

 

[ChuckM]

When it rains... [sad]

 

[Steve1]

  This includes the 203552 End Shield Assembly (armature & bearings) at $167.64, 494785 Brush Holder with Brushes at $20.79 as well as the 494970 Field Assembly at $82.50. 

The above items add up to replacing the entire motor. 

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

That’s terribly bad luck. I still don’t think Festool pay enough attention to packaging. I bought a new type Kapex a while back, brand new. It also arrived upside down, and came in Festool factory packaging, which (in my opinion) is not adequate. Good if being handed over a counter but, no good for shipping.

I sent Festool a polite mail, stating what happened with photos. I never heard a word from them.

 

[Cheese]

This could not happen at a worse time.  I'm right in the middle of a project with a firm deadline only three weeks away and have compound miters to cut.

Joe is there a local Festool source that you regularly purchase your Festool items from? If so, maybe talk with them & explain your situation and possibly they'd give you some time on their Kapex.

I know if I was in your situation, I'd definitely talk to the local Woodcraft people that I purchase from. The worst they can say is no.  [smile]

 

[deepcreek]

This could not happen at a worse time.  I'm right in the middle of a project with a firm deadline only three weeks away and have compound miters to cut.

Joe is there a local Festool source that you regularly purchase your Festool items from? If so, maybe talk with them & explain your situation and possibly they'd give you some time on their Kapex.

I know if I was in your situation, I'd definitely talk to the local Woodcraft people that I purchase from. The worst they can say is no.  [smile]

My local Woodcraft did in fact offer to let me use their Kapex but it's set up in their wood room and gets a lot of use cutting boards down for customers.

Luckily, I have a friend who is a fellow furniture maker and he offered me uninterrupted use of his Kapex all day on Monday.

 

[Harry1561]

I've had my Kapex for about 3-4 years now.Have used it for all types of work, framing, primeline  weatherboards (with the diamond blade),decking etc l look after it but don't baby it at all.  This week l did a fix out on a house for the 1st time in a while and just loved the Kapex, it's a pleasure to use, if mine went up in smoke I'd get another one without question.