Kapex - The good side

[rmoursund]

Well I've been using my second Kapex for the third day and everything is wonderful.  I purchased this saw because my old saw (Dewalt) was over 10 years old and I was due for an upgrade, but the price.  After taking the leap I was one who ended up with one of the bad saws from the start.  My dealer sent a new one and it has "been the beginning of a beautify relationship".
The thing that surprised me the most - the quality of the cut.  I was expecting accuracy with bevel, miter and compound cuts, and this was delivered by both of the saws that I used, but the cut quality - WOW!.  The only thing I can compare it to is something that would come off my Lion miter trimmer.
Yes, now that I have a saw with a properly working miter, life is good.  And for me, throwing in the Lasers, dado capability and the sliding saw's increased capacity, well that's just gravy.
I know Festool will get this all settled to everyone's satisfaction, so not to worry.  I think we have a great saw here that will provide years of satisfactory service.

 

[waynew]

I wish I could say the same re quality of cut. This is my first mitre saw so perhaps I'm expecting a little much, but for $1300 I don't think so.

The blade leaves marks on the end grain where the back edge of the blade comes to rest after a cut (that is, the edge closest to the operator).

Is this an adjustment issue, blade not quite 90o to the fence?
Does any other Kapex owner see this?

Thanks,
Wayne

 

[rmoursund]

Wayne,
I don't understand were the problem is occurring that you are describing:  leaving marks on the end grain which is the edge closest to the operator.  I am getting razor smooth cuts on the end grain, on the top of the board and on the front side (the side facing the operator) of the board being cut.  I am getting some very minor tearout on the bottom of the board being cut and an increased amount (but acceptable) on the back side of the board (the part of the board against the fence).  This is true for the "Chop Cut" and the "Push Cut" as described in the Kapex owner's manual.  Please note that you should never use a "Pull Cut"
There should be no problem with the blade not being set 90 degrees to the fence, as far as tearout is concerned, for that is the whole purpose of the miter adjustment.
The only other thing I can think of is that when cutting wood you should be sure to increase the speed of the saw to a setting of "6".
Hope this is of some help.

 

[waynew]

Wayne,
I don't understand were the problem is occurring that you are describing:  leaving marks on the end grain which is the edge closest to the operator.  I am getting razor smooth cuts on the end grain, on the top of the board and on the front side (the side facing the operator) of the board being cut. 

Okay, I got my front and back side mixed up LOL. So, according to your explanation the blade marks are occuring closer to the front side of the piece (closer to the operator).
If I'm cutting 16/4 ceder beam then the marks are located at the lower corner of the cut to the right (looking end on, closer to the front side). As the blade slows to a stop it seems to wear on the cut piece and causes a slight impression of the blade. I'm talking about a 1/64" - 1/32" but its quite noticable and has to be sanded out.

Please note that you should never use a "Pull Cut"

I've been using the push cut for the most part due to the size of the lumber, other than that its the chop cut.

There should be no problem with the blade not being set 90 degrees to the fence, as far as tearout is concerned, for that is the whole purpose of the miter adjustment.

After you wrote that I had to think about it again because I'm use to table saw.   If the blade was slightly off true 90o to the fence and I did a push cut while the mitre was at 0o couldn't that cause the front of the blade to rub on the cut piece?

The only other thing I can think of is that when cutting wood you should be sure to increase the speed of the saw to a setting of "6".
Hope this is of some help.

Yep its on 6.

Tearout has not really been a problem.
Thanks for your response.
Wayne

 

[Warrior]

Wayne,

It sounds like the piece might be getting pushed into the blade after the cut as the blade spins down.

Are you using the hold down clamp? I generally like to use it since it is so easy to use. If you prefer not to use it make sure the piece is held firmly and does not move durning and after the cut. I definately suggest the clamps usage especially for miter/ angle cuts since there is a tendancy of the cutting action to pull on the work piece.

Eiji

 

[rmoursund]

Wayne,
The saw blade should be parallel to the direction the saw slides on the rails or problems could result; I would think primarily burning the end of the stock if it was clamped and/or moving the stock out of position if it was not, among other problems which might be what you are experiencing.  I should add that this is really above what I qualified to comment about, it is only an uneducated guess.
I can say that I am not experiencing anything like what you describe.  Concerning end grain, I cannot tell the difference between a piece that has been sanded and a piece that has come directly off the saw ? I actually did this test.
I would highly recommend that you contact the Festool folks to find a solution to the problem.  Having used two saws that made such great cuts I know they will get you on the right track.

PS:  In my first post, I stated that I was experiencing some minor tear out on the back side of the cut (the side that lies against the fence).  To reduce tear out to zero, add a zero clearance fence to the saw?s auxiliary fence.

 

[Spike]

Bad blade. Out of tension or dished. I can guarantee if you "sight the blade" on start up and coast down you will see it flutter or wobble. You can try rotating the blade 90-120 degrees on the arbor and try again, that might cancel out the cut issue but chances are another blade will do much better.

 

[waynew]

Thanks for those replies, I thought some pics would help.
The clamp does a really good job and I am pretty sure the piece itself isn't moving during the push cut. The blade mark occurs exactly where the blade comes to a stop at the end of the cut.

 

[Warrior]

Wayne,

test a chop cut vs a push cut.

 

[Spike]

Blades with large anti vibration slots and thin kerfs are especially prone to flex, run out, minor variations in rpm's, and "dishing". I myself prefer thick or standard kerf blades with no laser cut anti vibration slots.

Slow your feed rate down (how fast you push saw through work piece). I also lift the saw out of the cut when finished while the blade is still powered or spinning but ONLY do this if BOTH pieces (left of blade and right of blade) are clamped firmly in place. This will prevent the blade from relaxing it's tension in the cut.

But like I said in my post above, it more than likely is a bum blade.

 

[MiterMaster]

From the pic it appears that the blade is not quite square to the table.  Did you check that the blade runs parallel to the entire length of the saw table, as it appears your cut is  a tad off.

Mike

 

[Spike]

Forgot to ask Wayne, how does the piece of wood look to the left of the blade? Bet you anything it has no marks in it.

 

[waynew]

Wayne,
test a chop cut vs a push cut.

I kind of expected this, the cut was perfect. For the test I cut the same piece of (2" x 12") timber and removed the piece remaining with a hand saw.

I'll respond to the rest of the questions tomorrow after I've had a chance to test your suggestions.

Thanks,
Wayne

 

[woodshopdemos]

Wayne, I dont think anyone has mentioned this yet, but let the saw stay where it is at the end of the cut and let the blade come to a complete halt before moving.

Based on my reading of the pictures, the feathers at the rear of the cut can be eliminated by placing a wood fence directly behind the piece when cutting.  The other cut or swirl on the end of the board suggests that there is some wood movement during the cut.Try the holddown clamp tosee if that doessnt fix it.

 

[waynew]

Slow your feed rate down (how fast you push saw through work piece). I also lift the saw out of the cut when finished while the blade is still powered or spinning but ONLY do this if BOTH pieces (left of blade and right of blade) are clamped firmly in place. This will prevent the blade from relaxing it's tension in the cut.

But like I said in my post above, it more than likely is a bum blade.

Slowing the feedrate down did help a little but but the swirl marks were still there. Lifting the blade out of the cut before the blade powers down helped alot but thats really not an option, most of the time a cant get a clamp on the otherside for safety purposes because the piece is too small.

From the pic it appears that the blade is not quite square to the table.  Did you check that the blade runs parallel to the entire length of the saw table, as it appears your cut is  a tad off.

Mike

Because we are talking about a very small a error here I'm not exactly sure how to measure it for the full length of travel.

Forgot to ask Wayne, how does the piece of wood look to the left of the blade? Bet you anything it has no marks in it.

No problem with the piece on the left of the blade.

Wayne, I dont think anyone has mentioned this yet, but let the saw stay where it is at the end of the cut and let the blade come to a complete halt before moving.

John,

That precisely what I've been doing.

Based on my reading of the pictures, the feathers at the rear of the cut can be eliminated by placing a wood fence directly behind the piece when cutting.  The other cut or swirl on the end of the board suggests that there is some wood movement during the cut.Try the holddown clamp tosee if that doessnt fix it.

I dont really have a problem with the feathering at the end, that can easily be solved with a backer board or wooden fence as per your suggestion. The issue is with the swirling marks left on the end grain, and as I stated in a previous post I'm using the hold down clamp and the piece is not moving during the cut.

Thank,
Wayne

 

[Warrior]

Wayne,

try this test.

Make a cut.

With the saw head down, not all the way down, with the teeth just above the table. Power up the saw and lightly push the cut end of the piece(with it against the fence) sideways until the spinning teeth just contact the cut end of the piece.

You should hear a continuous swish of the teeth against the board.

If you hear a swish, swish, swish, then you have a bent blade or arbor. Try another blade to rule out either. Or take off the blade and check it with a straight edge across opposing diameters.

If there is a continuous swish the most likely you have a bad saw which has the head out of alignment. You should be able to tell if there is a difference in the cut quality with a chop vs push cut. If this is the case or if you have arbor wobble I would get a replacement saw right away.

Also check if the turn table and base is aligned.  If that is the case then I would get a replacement saw.

Eiji Fuller

 

[MiterMaster]

From the pic it appears that the blade is not quite square to the table.  Did you check that the blade runs parallel to the entire length of the saw table, as it appears your cut is  a tad off.

Mike

Because we are talking about a very small a error here I'm not exactly sure how to measure it for the full length of travel.

Quick and simple way to test that your blade is parallel with your table is set-up your square and check the front of the blade, then pull your saw forward and check the blade again, pics attached to highlight what I'm trying to say....

Mike

 

[waynew]

Eiji,

It was very hard to hear anything other than the noise from the saw, however judging by the pattern left on the end grain it seems to be brushing the piece in an even manner.

MiterMaster,

This little exercise told me that the travel is out by over a 1/32" over the entire length of travel. Because of the travel issue its not that clear whether the blade is also unparallel to the table but it seems its okay in this respect.

The travel is from front left to back right.

Thanks,
Wayne

 

[woodshopdemos]

Wayne, do you get the same swirl on each and every cut and at the same place.
Do try using a backer piece behind it and cut all the way thru.

One mother thing, with the saw off (f course) move the saw to the point wher it madee that swirl and see if there is any play in the head and/or the blade.

 

[MiterMaster]

MiterMaster,

This little exercise told me that the travel is out by over a 1/32" over the entire length of travel. Because of the travel issue its not that clear whether the blade is also unparallel to the table but it seems its okay in this respect.

The travel is from front left to back right.

Thanks,
Wayne

It's a simple fix to get the blade back in alignment.  If I'm reading your response correctly, simply loosen the 3 screws holding the miter tab in place, with the screws loosened, gently tap the scale to the left, check with your square and bring the blade back in alignment.  Once in alignment, re-tighten the 3 screws and try your cut again - see if this fixes your problem.

Even if it does not fix your problem, at least you will know this was not the cause and you can rule out that possibility and move on to the next possible cause.

Mike