Kapex up in smoke

[Administrator_JSVN]

Shane, what issues did the Service Dept Manager mention them seeing?   

I figured that might be asked. I actually typed it in my original post and removed it because I thought I might not be believed. But there were no issues that were on the radar.

I did specifically ask about the 4-5 reported cases of the TS 55 REQ not retracting after plunge. I had him take apart a saw and show me what he thought was the problem. We were expecting one of these back from a customer (also a FOG member) who reported this problem and I was going to hear about the actual findings but the Service Department Manager is out of the office this week. So, I expect to hear something on Monday about whether his hunch was confirmed. I'll reiterate that there are very, very few reported cases. I also asked about the report of grease dripping from the Kapex which is another rare case to make sure my understanding of the problem was correct and I was providing accurate information when I responded here on the forum.

The reality is that this forum is not censored. If there were widespread problems, they would be posted about here for all to read. If there's a problem, you guys are likely to read all of the juicy details for yourself and learn about it the same time I do.

But, I think Kev summed it up well with his reply...

I think I could say that even if you were unfortunate to have an issue, Festool would see it good.

We take care of our customers. I do it every day and go above and beyond in many cases what we guarantee. I've said this before here on the forum, but humor me in repeating myself: While we strive for perfection, there are problems with any product, regardless of price. The defining difference is how a company stands behind their product. I can say with confidence that we are among the very best in that respect.

 

[illumicon1]

As I am finally jumping off the fence and finally going to purchase the Kapex this week these comments are making me doubt spending $1375.00 on one tool. I spent a lot of time last week at the local Woodcraft store in Kansas City running through all of the features of the Kapex and was finally convinced of the extra cost. I've been outbid many times on Ebay on used Kapex's probably with no warranty ( this is probably a good thing).
I hope these are isolated situations.

I think I could say that even if you were unfortunate to have an issue, Festool would see it good.

Kev, that is one thing I do not doubt.

 

[Allikidej]

dfzsdrgdr

 

[Allikidej]

Mine Died today, again. This is the 3rd time. Same problem. Cutting parts. motor starts making a weird sound and starts to smoke. Sending it out to get fixed...... Still the best saw out there and i've had them all. BTW it's 6 years old and it gets used on a daily basis.

 

[Holmz]

Armature issues was never mentioned.

When the VCR stops working, the average person will throw up their arms and say it's a "short circuit".

When a motor fails, the average person will throw up their arms and say it's an "Armature Failure".

While these are both possible failure modes, in most cases it is simply people using what they think are generic terms that actually aren't generic, and do have specific meanings. A "short circuit" does have a specific meaning, and is rarely the cause for a VCR to fail. The same is true for an armature failure. That is a specific component in a motor, but is rarely the actual cause of a motor failure.

Just because the term "Armature" was used does not mean there is or is not any sort of trend. That is the equivalent of saying every electrical problem is a short circuit.

I admire admire JC Maxwell and the others very highly. But one does not need a physics or engineering background to know that when the smoke puffs out of it them, "It done burnt up".

People with burnt out saws may find this as a bit of "alternative fact" to suggest that the problem with the saw is not them burning up, but rather people are using poor nomenclature.

Whatever the mechanism is, it has not been fixed.

 

[jeh]

Mine Died today, again. This is the 3rd time. Same problem. Cutting parts. motor starts making a weird sound and starts to smoke. Sending it out to get fixed...... Still the best saw out there and i've had them all. BTW it's 6 years old and it gets used on a daily basis.

It's time to put it out to pasture. Buy the Bosch or the Dewalt FLEXVOLT saw and move on. There is absolutely no excuse for it failing this many times and as you know you are not the first nor will you be the last. Something has gone south in the design of the Kapex or the parts used within. At it's current price point it should be so over-engineered that it would never fail.

 

[antss]

FT could also lower the price.  [big grin]

People who buy a Harbor Freight saw don't really hem and haw when their $150 mitersaw goes tits up after a year or so.  Their expectation isn't that high for $150. If the same saw last three years they're ecstatic.

At $1600 , the bar is set pretty high and people expect their saw to last more than three years regardless of the power grid or whether they're cutting thin pieces of trim molding or 4x4 posts.  In fact that bar is so high, I don't think there are any bars higher for portable mitersaws.  And that's the headache for FT.

Like someone already a said , it's about managing expectations. And at $1600/saw my expectations are pretty darn high.

 

[ben_r_]

FT could also lower the price.  [big grin]

People who buy a Harbor Freight saw don't really hem and haw when their $150 mitersaw goes tits up after a year or so.  Their expectation isn't that high for $150. If the same saw last three years they're ecstatic.

At $1600 , the bar is set pretty high and people expect their saw to last more than three years regardless of the power grid or whether they're cutting thin pieces of trim molding or 4x4 posts.  In fact that bar is so high, I don't think there are any bars higher for portable mitersaws.  And that's the headache for FT.

Like someone already a said , it's about managing expectations. And at $1600/saw my expectations are pretty darn high.

I agree. The Kapex is $1475 though, not $1600. LINK

 

[Jaybolishes]

Well for me after I pay .07 in tax that totals up to $1578.5.  Of course this can be avoided with online purchases but people are still supposed to still pay that tax if I'm not mistaken.

 

[RobWoodCutter]

I am heavily invested in FT.

Dust Extraction: CT Midi, CT22, CT26; Saws: TS-55, TS-75 + 5 tracks; Drills: CXS, T 18+3; Routers: OF1010, OF1400, OF2200, MFK700; FS1400/2-LR32; Sanders: RO150, ETS 150/3, LS130, DTS 400, DTX90; Jigsaws: PS 420, PS 300 MISC: Domino DF500, OS 400 EQ, HL 850 E; Kapex KS 120; Router table with 2-extensions CMS-VL MFT/3, Plus multiple accessories sets.

I started buying them 8-9 years ago. I have only had two problems. The Kapex leaking oil and the OF1400 trigger latch failing several years ago soon after I mounted it to the CMS router table. It just won't stay latched in the on position after a few seconds. It worked great handheld up till that point until it was permanently mounted to the CMS.

I am sure I could order a replacement trigger to fix it but if it goes south again.... I just sucked it up and use a spring clamp to hold the trigger on now.

I also use a run the Kapex and the tracksaws on a separate circuits from the vacs at 120V. All the other FT's I run through the VACS. 

Rob

 

[Rsrflooring]

Same boat here. My kapex has burned uo 2 times in 2 years. However the service dept says its my fault and it is and isolated incident. Quick search on fog shows i am not the only one. For dust collection its top of class. For realability and longevity not even close. Im leaving festool and going back to makita with their new saw coming out.

 

[dlu]

Mine Died today, again. This is the 3rd time. Same problem. Cutting parts. motor starts making a weird sound and starts to smoke. Sending it out to get fixed...... Still the best saw out there and i've had them all. BTW it's 6 years old and it gets used on a daily basis.

Makes me wonder if the failures are related to the way it is being used. One thing that kills motors is heat. In motors heat (mostly) is a function of current. One cause could be a voltage drop due to a long (and/or undersized) extension cord.

 

[ChuckM]

If there is someone who knows what cause(s) the breakdown, it'd be Festool, having made so many repairs (how many? We don't know, it does) and collected the necessary data. So many "reasons" or speculations covering motors, voltage, user's habits, etc. have been advanced that we are still no better in preventing saw breakdown or understanding its pattern.

 

[antss]

Suppose all these fellas are using their Kapexs incorrectly - however that is ? [unsure]

I'm pretty sure most are not newbies to the game and this isn't their first saw.  How come their other saws aren't smokin motors after a couple of years of being used incorrectly also ?  These same guys that plunked down $1500 +/- for a mitersaw likely did not change their sawing habits once they got their gee-wizsuperterrific wunderbar cutting system. 

So, same use patterns (most likely) but only the really expensive saw burns out.      [doh]