Kapex up to hype?

O

otis04

Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Messages
137
I currently have an old Makita LS1211 saw that has served me well for 15 years.  Unfortunately, it is now hard to get consistent 90 degree cuts and may be time for a new saw.  I have several Festool products but, like all tools, they are not perfect.
Is the Kapex clearly (i.e 2X better) better than the competition.  I am a homeowner but have built 2 houses on nights and weekend as well as lots of built in cabinetry, furniture, etc.  So I will use a good saw for a long time.

Thanks for the input,

Chris
 
Personally I find the cut quality, precision, and accuracy to amazing.  I did need to adjust the lasers, but they are consistant,  dead on, and useful. I can count on them.  I recently was fitting some pieces  that I was cutting to fit. And to get the fit really good  I was shaving the end off with the Kapex repeatedly. Like a 1/64 ( swear, probably less on a couple cuts) at a time. It was no trouble at all.

Seth
 
Chris, I'm not going to offer my opinions because, let's face it, they would be biased. But, I would like to remind you that you can purchase our tools and try them risk free for 30 days. Just take it back for a refund if you're not satisfied. Refer to our 30-day guarantee for complete details.
 
I would say no, they are not 2x better than the competition. The  cut quality, precision, and accuracy is no better than the last Makita i had. What  is a lot better than the Makita is the adjustment, Don't had to lean over to the back of the saw to make adjustments, plus the zimmer frame is great. I used to have to pick the Makita up from the back of my van and carry it down corridors through doorways etc. now i just wheel the Kapex about...  [laughing]

John..
 
I have had a couple Makita LS 1013's as well as the Bosch 10" slider (not the new model) I found all the saws accurate out of the box, the Makita's and Bosch both developed problems after a short while. They were still accurate but there is more to it than that.

The Bosch was very loud, even with earplugs, and it did not have a smooth operation when cutting. When I pull the head down to slide it back for a cut it was a jerky/stiff movement. I replaced the required parts and saw minimal improvement. Those issues, coupled with the huge footprint (compared to the Kapex) caused me to sell it for half what I paid for it. A waste of money in my mind.

The Makita fence bent with what I consider moderate use, and only myself using it. The handle and pin system that locks the miter in place fell apart on the 2nd Makita after a couple weeks use. The bevel lock on the Makita is a joke, once I open the locking lever it twists a bit and this jambs things which does not allow the saw head to bevel without wiggling and fiddling.

With both the Bosch and Makita, they did work, and did cut accurately (after I fixed the bent fence on the Makita). So in this regard the Kapex is not twice as accurate as any of my other saws. The Kapex is smaller, lighter, has much better dust collection, accurate and useful lasers, the bevel scale is huge/accurate and with the fine tuning available with a turn of the handle is far easier to get the bevel angle you want. So to me the Kapex, when all things are considered, is for sure twice the saw that my others are.

I find the whole "is Festool worth the cost" a hard question to answer definitively. What is important to you? Almost any tool will/can give as good a result as another, some just do it more easily. If you value an efficient and well designed tool then it becomes worth it. For me Festool is worth the cost, for others maybe not.

Jason
 
I guess if we have to deal with disclosures, as a moderator I am biased, but I bought my Kapex at full price with my dollars.

In 28 years of using miter saws - electric or otherwise - I have never personally experienced one other than the Kapex that made the experience enjoyable.

Everyone will have their pros and cons and opinions.

All I can say is that I make my living with assistance of my tools and after doing the debate for almost 18 months I got the Kapex- I do value my money - my other saw died.  I remember that previous saw and am not looking back.  I have no regrets.

Peter

 
otis04 said:
I currently have an old Makita LS1211 saw that has served me well for 15 years.  Unfortunately, it is now hard to get consistent 90 degree cuts and may be time for a new saw.  I have several Festool products but, like all tools, they are not perfect.
Is the Kapex clearly (i.e 2X better) better than the competition.  I am a homeowner but have built 2 houses on nights and weekend as well as lots of built in cabinetry, furniture, etc.  So I will use a good saw for a long time.
Thanks for the input,

Chris
Click to expand...

Over all this may be a bit difficult to quantify. Depends on what yor use is and what features are most important for you.

Seth
 
Some days I make 300+ cuts with mine.  Some days 30 but, everyone is spot on and the saw is easy to use.

 
otis04 said:
I currently have an old Makita LS1211 saw that has served me well for 15 years.  Unfortunately, it is now hard to get consistent 90 degree cuts and may be time for a new saw.  I have several Festool products but, like all tools, they are not perfect.
Is the Kapex clearly (i.e 2X better) better than the competition.  I am a homeowner but have built 2 houses on nights and weekend as well as lots of built in cabinetry, furniture, etc.  So I will use a good saw for a long time.

Thanks for the input,

Chris
Click to expand...

Chris, a belated  [welcome],

First of all, I hardly think the many raves for Kapex are hype. Although I frequently participate in Festool classes, I am not on the Festool payroll. My fairly large shop builds high-end custom cabinets. Currently I own 5 Kapex. Two of those were bought the day Kapex could be sold in the USA.

Both of those are permanently installed on long benches in my shop. Two other Kapex are on rolling stands with dedicated CT22 which can be positioned as needed. The fifth Kapex is my newest. It is attached to a UG stand and has a dedicated CT36.

Before I bought my first Kapex I had the chance to use them in shops of friends while visiting Europe. Like others I have been using radial arm and miter saws for over 60 years. At the time I bought my first Kapex I owned a newish Hitachi 10" and a veteran 14" radial arm saw. Consequently I have limited experience using any Kapex to cut wood thicker than 3"

Many of my friends do a wider range of woodworking. I notice they all own various framing saws in addition to their Kapex. In planning my current shop I ordered a new 550mm radial arm saw, to cross-cut thick and wide rough pieces of hardwood. After cross cutting those rough pieces get re-sawn on our horizontal band saw prior to edge trimming, jointing and thickness planing.

Besides the precision and super cut-quality of the Kapex, I am thrilled by the effective dust collection. This saves time in the shop and is vital to our reputation when installing our cabinets in the homes of fussy clients.

Only you can say what features you NEED in a saw and which you want. Only you can justify the price of a Kapex. My suggestion is to consider all the costs of using a finish saw. For me it comes down to avoiding costly mistakes. On a typical day the Kapex installed in my door and frame department cuts enough exotic hardwood that material costs more than the retail price of a Kapex. That cabinet maker performs well over 300 cuts on the Kapex, which does have a Tiger Stop.
 
otis04 said:
I currently have an old Makita LS1211 saw that has served me well for 15 years.  Unfortunately, it is now hard to get consistent 90 degree cuts and may be time for a new saw.  I have several Festool products but, like all tools, they are not perfect.
Is the Kapex clearly (i.e 2X better) better than the competition.  I am a homeowner but have built 2 houses on nights and weekend as well as lots of built in cabinetry, furniture, etc.  So I will use a good saw for a long time.

Thanks for the input,

Chris
Click to expand...

We all know that most things that happen to cost twice as much aren't necessarily twice as good.  Trying to justify the Kapex in this regard may be a losing proposition.  It's (debateably) the best miter saw out there.  There are other saws that cut as well, that have decent dust collection and are relatively small and light weight.  None of them do it with the same grace as the Kapex.  The biggest issue that I see now is a lack of long term quality of the current saws the competition is putting out.  This is a sticking point to me.  I've read on other forums guys knocking the Kapex saying their Milwaukee or Makita saws are just as good at half the price.  Now two-three years later, these guys are talking about their saws aren't what they used to be.  I snicker as I read.

Bottom line, just because it is expensive don't expect it to be perfect in every way.  It is, in my opinion, the best at dust collection, it makes near perfect cuts, its been reliable for me, and the thing is easy to carry.  If those features are worth a premium to you then the Kapex may be a good value.  Good luck with your decision.     
 
I bought the Kapex when it first became available because I really liked the large easy-to-read bevel scale and the rotating handle for setting bevels. I also liked the idea an innovation of the "special cutting position" for achieving cuts in taller materials and the light weight. Dust collection was also a major factor.  While I have always payed for innovation and quality throughout my woodworking career, and though I am a believer in the motto:  "when you buy expensive, high quality tools, you only cry once",  I still believe that the saw is overpriced. When people ask me if the saw is "worth $1300"  I usually tell them no, but point out the things that I like about it.
 
The Kapex can also cut trenches, not sure if the Makita does that but I have used that feature a lot.
 
It's a premium price.  If it's something you feel you have to justify then you have to need everything it has offer including the light weight.  For instance, I lift mine in and out of the back door of a four door Chevy pickup with the back seat folded down.  I'm not supposed to be tearing the interior up.  I can put it in and take it out without scratching anything and without killing myself.  That is a big deal to me.  Something like that probably doesn't mean a thing to you.  If you need to crosscut wide drawer sides accurately in the field then that would be another reason that the Kapex would probably serve you better than any other saw.

The Festool marketing material always shows guys out in the field.  On the floor, on a Kapex MFT in the room they are trimming.  The price reflects two things.  First, the saw is not made in Asia and second they are selling portable excellence and that justifies the premium price. 
 
otis04 said:
I currently have an old Makita LS1211 saw that has served me well for 15 years.  Unfortunately, it is now hard to get consistent 90 degree cuts and may be time for a new saw.  I have several Festool products but, like all tools, they are not perfect.
Is the Kapex clearly (i.e 2X better) better than the competition.  I am a homeowner but have built 2 houses on nights and weekend as well as lots of built in cabinetry, furniture, etc.  So I will use a good saw for a long time.

Thanks for the input,

Chris
Click to expand...

you will like it.

is it worth $1,300 when you can buy something similar for $500?
most folks will say no.

buy it right before you have a fair bit of cutting to do... take it
home, cut with it for a month, and if you aren't happy, return it.

couple things i've noticed about power tools.

manufacturers have "refurbished" units on sale all the time.
they are returns that have been cleaned up and are sold at
a discount.

i've not yet seen a refurbished festool.

i don't think very many people return them. but then again,
not that many people buy them either.

second thing, is look on something like craigs list, which has
a ton of used tools for sale....

currently in so calif there are three things for sale....

a vacuum in hollywierd for $500
a 12 volt drill for $175
a ts 75 for $600 in san deigo

that area contains one of every six people living in america

nobody sells festools. and if they do, it's for about 80% of new,
usually.

there's a reason why.
 
Is the Kapex pricey?  Yep.    Is it worth it?    That depends on your criteria.

I bought a Kapex after using a Bosch 4410L for about two years.  While the Bosch is a decent saw, dust collection wasn't great, the bevel scale was poor, and the left pullout wing wasn't coplanar with the bed.  However...

The biggest issue was the weight and bulkiness.  With the permanently mounted adapters for my saw stand, it weighed 75lbs!  (I weighed it on my digital scale.)    Almost every time I picked it up, my back went out.  And off I went to my chiropracter.  At $40 a pop, that adds up fast!  In one incident, it took three trips to my chiropracter to straighten out the back!!!

The Kapex's lighter weight and compact form make it easy for me to pick up.  So far, NO problems. 

So is a Kapex worth the price to me?  Damn straight!  (And my back agrees.    [cool] )

Dan.
 
FulThrotl said:
i've not yet seen a refurbished festool.
Click to expand...

Funny, I actually have one...  I bought my HL 850 as a refurb.

They did a sale a while back to clear out some inventory of refurbs.  It may have just been a one-time thing, or maybe they'll do it again in a few years when they have sufficient inventory again...

 
Kapex is in the house !!!  I have used a Ridgid sliding compound miter for a few years now and have hated the thing all along, heavy, dirty, and as un accurate as it can get.  Finally broke down and bought the Kapex on Saturday and it is fantastic thus far, except the lasers were not even close to the cut mark, but they are easy to adjust so that is now taken care of.
 
I'm purely a DIY'er and I don't have space to leave tools out - this means every time I want to do something ... out with the tools, do the work, away with the tools and then tidy up.

The Kapex on the trolley with the extension arms and a Festool Vac means the mitre saw is out and set up in 5 minutes, away in five minutes and virtually no clean up. To me thats a saving and a reduction in the "no fun" stuff, to a tradesman - that has to be very significant.

Add quietness, accuracy, quality ...

Next there's reliability and support!

I now have a large collection of Festool tools - you really don't appreciate what Festool brings to the table until you've used at least two different Festool products ... then you start to see it in pretty much everything they make.
 
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