Kapex: What is the precision level you'd expect?

[CNX]

Hi all,

After postponing to buy a Kapex for more than a year, I finally pulled a trigger. Now I see myself using it a lot (I use my MFT+TS55 less frequently now, though).

When I got the saw, the 90 degree was within the spec but noticeably off. The adjustment was easy and now it's dead on. It keeps the alignment better than the MFT. I'm happy and glad that I finally bought it.

Now, my question is the calibration of the 45 degree miter. I found several threads discussing about it, but it seems there is no easy way to adjust the 45 degree, independent of the 90 degree adjustment. Basically, we just need to rely on the precision of the miter gauge.

The issue is, my 45 degree is "slightly" off. I don't think that would affect the quality of my furniture making; wood moves anyway. I don't have a plan to make picture frames either, but when I tested a frame, I can see the inaccurate 45 degree. If I'm not mistaken, the inaccuracy multiplies in the picture frame.

So, I guess my question to you is, which one of the following would be your reaction to it?

1) Yeah, this is what you expect from any kind of miter saws and we need to live with it.
2) If we want dead accurate 45 degree, do not rely on the indentation of the gauge and just find out the accurate position (like 45.1 degree in the miter gauge reading).
3) No, you should replace the gauge or try to calibrate (somehow) until you get a perfect picture frame!

I would appreciate your experience with Kapex on this matter.

Thanks,

Susumu

 

[greg mann]

Do a search for a Kapex supplemental manual. Rick has a nice procedure outlined for doing just what you want. If you found it easy to adjust 90 degrees I think you should have little trouble getting both 45s tuned as well.

 

[CNX]

Thanks Greg,

Yes, I followed Rick's manual for the 90-degree adjustment but I think his manual doesn't touch on the 45 degree calibration. In FOG, there is a thread discussing the 45-degree adjustment by moving the miter gauge fore (wider angle) or aft (narrower angle), but I'm not very convinced by this method because there is not much room for the gauge to move fore and aft.

 

[peter halle]

As Greg mentioned, it is not too difficult to make the adjustment you need.  You don't need that much fore and aft movement assuming the angle is close.

Peter

 

[FinishingCanuck]

As Greg mentioned, it is not too difficult to make the adjustment you need.  You don't need that much fore and aft movement assuming the angle is close.

Peter

What he said

 

[CNX]

Thanks Peter,

I'll try to do the fore / aft.
Hope it won't mess up my 90 degree.
Another way, with potentially a wider range of adjustment is to rotate the gauge using the center screw as a pivot. I found there is quite a room for wiggle in this way.
This could adjust one side of the 45 degree, potentially screwing up the other side. So, if I can get a good result with fore/aft, that'd be better. Because I use only the left side for miter cuts, I would care less for the right side, though.
Anyway, I'll do some work in this weekend and update you.

Thanks,

 

[Birdhunter]

Please let us know how this turns out. My Kapex was dead nuts on for 90 and 45 out of the box, but I may need to adjust it in the future.

 

[Johnny5]

My 45's were off pretty significantly out of the box.  Tried f-ing with the adjustment, but couldn't get it right.  I just couldn't figure out an effective, accurate way of gauging where the miter plate was vs where I was moving it.  Seems that in order to move it fore and aft, all three screws need to be loose.  But how can you possibly slide it fore/aft by hand without affecting your 90*? Then if you throw out your 90 getting the 45's dialed, all three screws need to be loose again to reset the 90, opening up the possibility of whacking out the 45's again.  Some have said they use a feeler guage but i can't figure out what they're gauging off of being as the miter plate floats with nothing in front or back of it.  Maybe I'm missing something, but I sent it back to let Festool eff with it.  For what it costs, i expect the basics to be dead nuts.  Just got it back and haven't had the chance to check it, but hopefully they got it right or they will be seeing it again.....

 

[CNX]

Hi all,

OK, I spent some good time with my Kapex, fiddling around with the miter gauge.
Long story short, Rick, Greg, Peter are all correct. There are enough room in fore/aft to adjust the 45 degree without changing 90 degree accuracy. I was appalled by how small the fore/aft adjustment is needed to cause noticeable changes in the 45 degree cut. We are talking about tiny degrees, but when two 45 degrees are butted together, the inaccuracy multiplies, which bothers us, right?

If you are careful, you can move the gauge without moving the center portion that much. I managed to change fore-aft 5 times without significantly altering the 90 degree. In the first try, I move too much to aft (didn't believe this much wiggle did anything), making the angle too wide. I did back and forth five times. I guess I ended up in "close enough". I guess I could do it forever, chasing perfect picture frame, but after I found 4 out of 5 try was worse than my starting point, I finished my quest at fifth time, which seems as good as or maybe slightly better than the beginning. At least for the two 45 degree, it seems perfect 90 degree. Now I don't have energy to challenge the complete 360 degree (picture frame) again. Maybe later when I feel like it, but honestly, I don't think it's really a matter because,,,, wood moves anyway. I also didn't check the right side. Now I know it is theoretically possible to adjust everything (left 45, 90, right 45), but at some point, such efforts are not realistically needed, I guess. I may try in the future when such a need arises.

For now, my 45 degree meets flat surfaces in the current project. For the molding, the current accuracy should be enough. The squareness of what would be molded (meaning my carcass) would be less than Kapex anyway.

As for the Kapex as a product, my feeling is, it is not realistic to expect this level of accuracy for any woodworking machine at this price range out of the box. It is so tiny adjustment. As long as it has a scheme for adjustment and it can hold the set up, it should be fine. However, I do wish if there would be a better way to adjust the gauge. Currently, it can move freely in all direction. 90 degree is easy. We just have to make sure the gauge is free but attached to the miter handle. Then I can tap the handle slightly to the direction I want and screw down the gauge. It is just one-dimensional adjustment. However, for 45 degree, we need to release the gauge from the miter handle and the gauge can move translationally and rotationally. I wish there would be set screws to restrict the fore/aft and rotation around the center screw.

Anyway, this is my report. Hope it is useful.

 

[peter halle]

Glad to see that you got it adjusted.  Happy Kapexing!

Peter

 

[Drich]

Is this a one off thing or hit and miss. I'm looking to get one here next week and don't want a bunch of head aches with having to ship it out and risk more damage. I just got a jc10 compressor that went through WW2.

 

[CNX]

Hi Drich,

I don't think it is really a problem of Kapex. When we deal with accuracy, it is usually not an issue of whether it is accurate or not. It is a continuum from absolute perfect (which is theoretically impossible) to a level of defect. What I'm talking about is not a level of defect. No matter which miter saw we get, we can do endless quest for "better" accuracy, which becomes at some point, pointless. Rick's manual does say, "However, care should be taken in over-using this calibration procedure because it has such a fine accuracy that it could be easy to get carried away and try to over-calibrate the saw".

Many users in this forum say "Kapex was dead on out of the box". In my case (- 0.11 degree off), it was within the spec (+/- 0.16). So we can call mine was a "hit", not a "miss", but 0.11 degree is actually noticeable when I use my trusted Woodpecker or Stanley (by the way, my other squares are off by  similar degrees). So, I decided to do the "over-calibration". I would say it was rewarding, because now every time I cut 90 degree and put my Stanley, I don't see any light leaking and go "Hmmmm, nice". Does it affect the quality of my work? Maybe not. I think the fact that it is easy to put Kapex into this accuracy is a nice thing, rather than something worry about.

As for the 45 degree, I'm not sure if there are any other miter saws out there that allow us to calibrate easier than Kapex (and without messing up the 90-degree calibration). As I said, I wish there was an easier way to dial in the 45-degree calibration with Kapex, but again, the fact that Kapex offers a way to calibrate is a nice thing. As I said, I'm talking about ever-so-slight error. Thinking about how expensive a Stanley combination which has only one moving part, it is not reasonable to expect Kapex to deliver the "Stanley" accuracy every time out of the box.

So, I want to make sure that I'm not bashing Kapex. It is more like, a guy like me may need to spend a good weekend to tune-up a Kapex.

Hope it helps

 

[Drich]

Thanks for going into such detail for me. That puts my mind at ease. I'm spending a lot of money on Festool tools as I'm redoing my whole way of doing things and did not want to be unhappy with the way I'm going. I had to sell all my large shop tools as I moved for a job and no longer have a shop area. If the kapex is as good as the sander and ct that I used for the first time this week I'll be in heaven. I did get to use tom's that day and I was impressed with it. Thanks again

 

[sancho57]

I dont havee  a prroblem with  mines. I use it primarliy for 90s and its dead nuts. Now 45s are a different story, your always going to have some variation 45 to 45. Meeaning you cut 2 45s to  joint to gether and they both will not be exactly the same. Its due to how ya hold the piece, clamp  etc and the blade variations etc. You will  notice it especially on picture frames (for example)
Now the question am I happy with  the results Im getting,

Oh heck ya. In order to get a perfect miter it does take a little adj a bit of sanding here and there to adj the 2 cuts to each other. Not much and with the Kapex less then any other tool Ive used.