Kitchen cabinet door fundamental question (perhaps a bit UKish in nature)

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Wuffles

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Ahoy hoy.

Ridiculous really, but I really don't know much about wood. I'm comfortable with my imported African MDF and the artisan sourced plywood sheets, so apologies in advance for the basic questions, the guaranteed misuse of terminology and probable misunderstanding of any responses I receive.

About to consider ordering a load of timber for the face frames of a bucketload of kitchen cabinets, and was going to order a large number of lengths of PAR oak or poplar finished to around 44mm x 22mm, domino them together and attach to the plywood carcasses. Or would pine do?

Now, should I be ordering a hardwood for the "shaker style" doors or can I get away with pine? It'll be framing a thinnish plywood centre - which according to my books is the way things are done.

Also, what do people normally use for edging plywood shelves and other things? Soft or hard wood?

Am I imagining the prices are vastly more expensive for the hard vs the soft woods? Bear in mind this is UK too American peeps.

Oh, and everything will be painted too.

Any advice greatly accepted.

Pip pip, tally ho etc.
 
I know a lot of people won't use poplar as it's soft and dents easily. Not sure what you would use maybe mahogany or beech ?

If it's all being painted can't you just use Mr mdf
 
I'd still need to edge it though really, and MDF wouldn't get past the quality control of the missus.

Oak is an option, but I'm not sure if it's exorbitant to use for the entire door surround. I can handle it (the cost) for the face frames.
 
Just finished 1 used tulip for doors and face frames with farrow and ball colour, which due to it marking to easy were over coated with an oil based paint
 
Right on.

Where would one go to for this kind of thing without breaking the bank? I went to the large local timber yard in Bristol today and was taken aback at the prices of stuff there. Including trim which was about 4 times the price of a place I use that posts from Rochdale.

I can get most things online, delivery is a bit much but it's still about a hundred quid cheaper on a £400 order than I could get at Robbins Timber. Only thing stopping me is not ordering enough and needing that one or two extra pieces which would knacker things up with having to have it delivered.
 
I would give serious consideration to mahogany on a project like this.
Hardwearing, easy to glue up, good finish and readily available.
 
I like options.

So which bits ought I be looking to use a hardwood for at a basic level? All of it except the plywood inserts on drawers and cupboards?

Flying blind, sorry.

Is edging on a shelf ok with pine?
 
Wuffles said:
Right on.

Where would one go to for this kind of thing without breaking the bank? I went to the large local timber yard in Bristol today and was taken aback at the prices of stuff there. Including trim which was about 4 times the price of a place I use that posts from Rochdale.

I can get most things online, delivery is a bit much but it's still about a hundred quid cheaper on a £400 order than I could get at Robbins Timber. Only thing stopping me is not ordering enough and needing that one or two extra pieces which would knacker things up with having to have it delivered.
Click to expand...
Try any decent timber yard they should be able to get it, obviously if you don't buy regular you are going to pay more for it.
It sands nice has good straight grain only thing we found it does like to chip when routering against the grain which can't be avoided alot of the time.
 
Wuffles said:
I like options.

So which bits ought I be looking to use a hardwood for at a basic level? All of it except the plywood inserts on drawers and cupboards?

Flying blind, sorry.

Is edging on a shelf ok with pine?
Click to expand...

Use the hardwood for all face frames, door stiles and rails, foredges etc.
Door and drawer panels can be ply. The grain structure will match.
You'll find you will have enough off cuts from the build to do the foredges etc.
I wouldn't do them in pine it's too soft, splits easily and knots to avoid etc.
 
Tulipwood is great for painting and very stable, only downside is that it is a bit soft, loads of people use it for painted furniture. I sometimes use a grade of maple called colour no defect for painted cabinets. It has marking in the grain which would not be suitable for a clear finish but is fine for painting and doesn't dint as easy as tulipwood. Oak is not really suitable for painting as the grain is too rough.

Doug
 
Thanks everyone.

I had Tulipwood loaded in a cart, but it's listed as Tulipwood/Poplar - little confusing perhaps to me. I'll price some stuff up with them and see what the other timbers will run to.

Is there a particular rail and style size I ought to be looking for or is it personal preference? Am looking at 22mm depth for the face frames, so the doors would be the same thickness I suppose?

http://www.timbercut4u.co.uk/shop/product/north-american-tulipwood-poplar-p12.aspx#.VKxp5aYzXFo

I have some of the gear to rip timber myself, but no thicknesser and more importantly, no room to work until the kitchen is built and I can get on with tidying.

I've got room to cut, domino and assemble one unit at a time. Then it's glued, tacked and shifted out of the meagre space I have left in amongst all the household items and my own junk lying around the place.

What surprised me about the price of the trims at the place in Bristol was they were borderline Wickes prices, even with a discount applied. I guess I've been spoilt with sheet materials and softwood pricing from my local merchants - they just can't do hardwoods so I'm a bit stuffed you see. Or the trims I want.
 
Tulipwood / Poplar is same timber.
FYI, I had a quick look at your supplier and prices seem to be on the high side.
6" oak OG skirting is more than double per LM what we would expect to pay.
 
I've not bought from them before, but they were a lot cheaper than the place I visited today. I'll keep looking for somewhere local, I'd prefer that for a few reasons.

Trims are coming mail order though :)
 
Wuffles said:
I've not bought from them before, but they were a lot cheaper than the place I visited today. I'll keep looking for somewhere local, I'd prefer that for a few reasons.

Trims are coming mail order though :)
Click to expand...
Robbins timber, Lathams try them
 
Robbins was the place I tried yesterday and was much more expensive than the mail order place - perhaps I was asking the wrong person for the wrong stuff.

I'll give Lathams a call and try and find somewhere more Somersety too.

On UKW someone did once recommend me a place for exotic hardwoods a similar distance from me to Yate, but in a southerly direction, so might try them.

Cheers for your help.

Any suggestions from anyone on my other question?

"Is there a particular rail and style size I ought to be looking for or is it personal preference? Am looking at 22mm depth for the face frames, so the doors would be the same thickness I suppose?"
 
Wuffles said:
Robbins was the place I tried yesterday and was much more expensive than the mail order place - perhaps I was asking the wrong person for the wrong stuff.

I'll give Lathams a call and try and find somewhere more Somersety too.

On UKW someone did once recommend me a place for exotic hardwoods a similar distance from me to Yate, but in a southerly direction, so might try them.

Cheers for your help.

Any suggestions from anyone on my other question?

"Is there a particular rail and style size I ought to be looking for or is it personal preference? Am looking at 22mm depth for the face frames, so the doors would be the same thickness I suppose?"
Click to expand...

22 or 19 depth is fine (see what your timbers are less a pass or two on thicknesses) but yes same thickness doors and face frames.
I generally take the width of face frame is half as wide as door frame.
Last kitchen was 68mm rail and stiles so face frame was 34mm.
This kitchen had a few cabinets side to side so gave an even perspective.
Would be perfectly fine if you have purchased all door stuff to rip in half and then edge giving you two face frame pieces. Would be less than half but only marginally.
 
Hi wuffles

I honestly would consider M R M.D.F .you will need no lipings and the edges for shelvs and stuff .also if it's a shaker style door you can use 18mm MDF and add a 6mm stile and rail to the face  .it will be a lot cheaper and you will only need a couple of different materials .i wouldn't consider ply for carcasses they will need too much painting .just my opinion
 
SMJoinery said:
Wuffles said:
Robbins was the place I tried yesterday and was much more expensive than the mail order place - perhaps I was asking the wrong person for the wrong stuff.

I'll give Lathams a call and try and find somewhere more Somersety too.

On UKW someone did once recommend me a place for exotic hardwoods a similar distance from me to Yate, but in a southerly direction, so might try them.

Cheers for your help.

Any suggestions from anyone on my other question?

"Is there a particular rail and style size I ought to be looking for or is it personal preference? Am looking at 22mm depth for the face frames, so the doors would be the same thickness I suppose?"
Click to expand...

22 or 19 depth is fine (see what your timbers are less a pass or two on thicknesses) but yes same thickness doors and face frames.
I generally take the width of face frame is half as wide as door frame.
Last kitchen was 68mm rail and stiles so face frame was 34mm.
This kitchen had a few cabinets side to side so gave an even perspective.
Would be perfectly fine if you have purchased all door stuff to rip in half and then edge giving you two face frame pieces. Would be less than half but only marginally.
Click to expand...

Understood. Makes perfect sense.

VW MICK said:
Hi wuffles

I honestly would consider M R M.D.F .you will need no lipings and the edges for shelvs and stuff .also if it's a shaker style door you can use 18mm MDF and add a 6mm stile and rail to the face  .it will be a lot cheaper and you will only need a couple of different materials .i wouldn't consider ply for carcasses they will need too much painting .just my opinion
Click to expand...

I take your point, but it's for my permanent gaff and I am trying to recreate a very posh and woody look for her indoors. She had her mind set on the same kitchen we had before in the past few doer upper houses - Neptune - but this time I figured I'd give it a wallop myself and save a few grand [unsure]
 
Nothing nicer than a handmade kitchen.
Saves a fortune and it's nice indoor workshop stuff.

I recently did our utility room and used MRMDF for carcasses.
Rolled the paint not sprayed and tried an experiment to see what was best, either painting when it was sheets, before it was assembled or after it was installed.
Winner hands down was just before assembly although I'd be really tempted to prime and undercoat full or even half sheets before cutting and then final coats before assembly.
Water based satin paint was very durable. No marks from saw / router etc.
I can easily get primed mdf but if I could get primed MRMDF I'd be a happy boy.
Good luck with the project.
Before, during and after pics expected!
 
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