Kitchen Draws and a question or 2 or 3 .....

[Crispy]

Ive been trying to justify my tool purchased to my wife  [big grin] by updating our kitchen setup while not being allowed to change the carcasses.

Ive opted for mostly drawers but due to the layout i have to still have a few cupboard doors too, all the hardware is blum - Movento slides and tipon soft open close everywhere i can.

Ive found out the hard way that front panels i had chosen -  the "kiln dried pre-made panels" that bunnings ( our version of bigbox store but without the range) are not so great..

While cutting the panels up the bound up so much it stopped the tracksaw blade, until a handy screwdriver saved the day.
And the cupboard doors i tried to/ did make bowed like a *&*&%&^%(*er, however the dominos in them probably dont help

First set of drawers were for all the pots, pans, lids and the wok, but i think i may redo them.
I have not told my wife this yet, as they are a little long and sit flush with the bench end, and when leaning on the bench they tend to 'pop' open, its gotten a little tedious over the last year.
I also want to redo the front of the wood paneling, as i should have joined the 2 panels together and then cut them down so i didnt have to add 2mm when i made the cupboard doors next to them, which to me stands out when i look at them.
Also sanded the factory finish down, and have had a hard time trying to get the same colour look from stains, and to do it without it looking like a 5yr old painted them due to the streaking i get.
View attachment 1

Anyway, getting on to the questions, for the 3rd set of drawers i made i used the blum free cabintet maker layout tool thingy, and even though i specified a certain height ( depth?) of the draw it made all the sides quite a bit shorter, is this a normal thing for drawers.
I wanted 180mm deep, but the sides on the plans were specced at 137mm deep - does this matter?
I didnt think about it till now, but i maybe could have changed the measurement - will try that on the next lot i make.

The second lot of drawers ive made without the front wood panel ( pre blum free softare find) I made the front quite high so that when i get around the adding the friont panel on i have a crapload of wood area to use for screwing to, this incase it bows or bends also.
Is one way better than the other?
View attachment 2
(soz - this was not sideways in my phone or on my laptop....)

Last thing is im trying to set out the 3 drawers ive made currently for plates, some cuttlery, glasses, coffee mugs and the last draw will contain the multitude of alcoholic berverage glasses my wife has collected over the last 25 yrs ( wine, champers, cherry etc)
Ive done a mock up of how i think it should be seperated using 6mm mdf and tape, and a couple of pin nails.
Is there a better way than what im doing, as it will be removable ( if/when we sell) as everyone has different sizes requirements etc.
But i have to do it for all 3 drawers ive made, and i dont want to remove the shelf to put the drawers in till im ready, which will probably take a fair bit of faffing around till im happy.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I would guess that the side length changing is due to the fact that the back of the drawer is relative to the length of the slide. It is trapped by the pin, rather than being able to run deeper, like the typical side mounted guides.  Of course, this means that the drawer is no longer "full extension", since any extra length of the sides will not move completely out of the cabinet.

I have zero experience with Bunnings panels, but I would say that bowing/twisting comes from either timber that was too wet when glued, or processed to quickly after gluing, while the moisture from the glue is still present.

My question is about the first pic. How do you expect those drawers to work, when they are so close to the others, in the corner?

 

[squall_line]

I would guess that the side length changing is due to the fact that the back of the drawer is relative to the length of the slide. It is trapped by the pin, rather than being able to run deeper, like the typical side mounted guides.  Of course, this means that the drawer is no longer "full extension", since any extra length of the sides will not move completely out of the cabinet.

I have zero experience with Bunnings panels, but I would say that bowing/twisting comes from either timber that was too wet when glued, or processed to quickly after gluing, while the moisture from the glue is still present.

My question is about the first pic. How do you expect those drawers to work, when they are so close to the others, in the corner?

I didn't look that closely until it was mentioned, but it definitely appears that the drawers will run full-on into the pulls from the existing drawers.  That seems like a recipe for frustration.

 

[Packard]

The pullouts that I built used side mount drawer pulls and I made the box from 3/4” solid lumber about 4” high all around. 

I realize that it is quite low for drawer sides, but I have never had anything spill over the edges of the drawers, so OK so far.  Some of the pullouts were made several years ago.

I found that with the lower front and sides, full extension slide hardware is not really necessary.  It is easy to see to the rear of the drawers because of the low fronts and sides.

When I get home I will take a few pictures and show.

I recently made all new doors (shaker) and all new drawer faces for my kitchen and finished them with paint.

I used Blum face frame soft close hinges, 1” oversized in height and width for a more modern look.

While I replaced the original hinges, I found that I did not have the arm length or flexibility required to replace the slides.  Kudos for anyone who has been able to replace the drawer slides. 

I made my doors from 3-1/2” x 3/4” x 24” poplar boards that Home Depot calls “project boards” and sells for $2.00 each.  The center panels were made from 1/2” thick plywood which I reduced the thickness at the edge to 1/4” by removing material from one side only.  I have not seen any warping, twisting, or bending. 

Most of the drawers were made from a single piece of 3/4” thick MDF.  No problems there either.

I started making the rails and stiles with stub tenon joints, but switched to mitered corners with dowels to improve the appearance of the painted finish in the corners.

If I were building fresh boxes too, I would have opted for all drawer layouts. The drawers dramatically improve space usage.  I did add pullouts, but that becomes a two or three step operation.

(I have one cabinet that has left and right doors and I have to open both doors to operated the pullouts—so three steps.)

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Absolutely. [member=75217]squall_line[/member]  Drawers that meet in corners need a filler that is at least as wide as the pulls or they will bang into each other.
I know someone who added pulls to drawers that were designed to be opened by the undercut profile on the edges. The lower drawers where ok, because they opened across a door, but the tops both hit the pull.

 

[Crispy]

I would guess that the side length changing is due to the fact that the back of the drawer is relative to the length of the slide. It is trapped by the pin, rather than being able to run deeper, like the typical side mounted guides.  Of course, this means that the drawer is no longer "full extension", since any extra length of the sides will not move completely out of the cabinet.

I have zero experience with Bunnings panels, but I would say that bowing/twisting comes from either timber that was too wet when glued, or processed to quickly after gluing, while the moisture from the glue is still present.

My question is about the first pic. How do you expect those drawers to work, when they are so close to the others, in the corner?

The first pic was just a shot of what i was afterlook wise, the LHS has to stay cupboards due to the amount of wasted space in that corner if i did drawers.
Which is how it looks currently below.
[attachimg=1]
The bowing of the wood i tried for weeks and i do mean weeks to get rid of by following all sorts of great methods i found on the internet (short of throwing the wood in to the pool for a few days to ensure proper water ingress - how i felt at the time [tongue]).
The cupboard doors panel was soaked with a hose ( cant remember which side), then left with enough weigth on top to turn them concave while i was working away for 2 weeks ( multiple times) and it still didnt make a difference.
View attachment 2
I dont own a thicknesser, so i cant thin them down, i did consider trenching the rear of the doors with the tracksaw and then using maybe a 3mm ply piece to cover it, or using steel or aluminium angle inbedded in the panel to hold them straight.
But thats all a future kurt problem.

All the drawers are made from 12mm b/c marine ply with some 17mm form ply as a base for heavy things, plates, pots etc, and all held to gether with either just dominos or dominos and glue.

The look my wife wanted was of the darker coloured panels all the way around the kitchen, so existing cuttlery draws, pantry and everything else.

There is a lot of trial and error in things i seem to do at home. I dont mind, but I do tend to spend more than i perhaps should have by the time i finish things.

 

[fritter63]

Anyway, getting on to the questions, for the 3rd set of drawers i made i used the blum free cabintet maker layout tool thingy, and even though i specified a certain height ( depth?) of the draw it made all the sides quite a bit shorter, is this a normal thing for drawers.
I wanted 180mm deep, but the sides on the plans were specced at 137mm deep - does this matter?
I didnt think about it till now, but i maybe could have changed the measurement - will try that on the next lot i make.

I just did a similar project last year.... rebuilt the drawers of our kitchen island that came from Mexico (on massive 10 foot by 5 foot cabinet). And they used el cheap side mount slides that never worked well, and they made the drawers only 12" deep when they had 3 feet of depth!

So... I replaced them all with custom drawer boxes (dovetailed of course!) and the blue motion slide. They are awesome. I don't know why their builder made those boxes so much shorter than the opening,  I remember the the specs for drawer box design looked really conservative, like they wanted 12mm of clearance. At first I thought this might be for tip in clearance, but those full extension slides don't need that. So I just made my boxes with like 6mm of clearance, worked fine.

Bottom line, you just gotta think about clearances when things move in and out, etc, and you should be ok.

 

[luvmytoolz]

[member=78392]Crispy[/member] You could always reach out to someone with a thickie or drum sander (so long as it's not pine) near you that would run them through for you on the Woodwork Forum. There's a lot of helpful guys there that would be happy to.

 

[Steve1]

On your mock-up, I don't like the accessibility for grasping the bowls.
Perhaps try making the dividers just 50mm tall --- the bowls stack, so they should stay in place.  But consider possible movement when opening/closing the drawer.
Also,  I don't like the utensil packaging.  Utensils should lie flat, and with scallops on the dividers for finger access. 
It rather looks like you don't have enough room in there for bowls and utensils.  I have an entire 22" wide drawer dedicated to utensils.

 

[Crispy]

On your mock-up, I don't like the accessibility for grasping the bowls.
Perhaps try making the dividers just 50mm tall --- the bowls stack, so they should stay in place.  But consider possible movement when opening/closing the drawer.
Also,  I don't like the utensil packaging.  Utensils should lie flat, and with scallops on the dividers for finger access. 
It rather looks like you don't have enough room in there for bowls and utensils.  I have an entire 22" wide drawer dedicated to utensils.

Cheers Steve, I had not really considered making the deviders smaller, but will have a play around on the coming weekend

And on the note of the utensils, i will probably just change that to knives forks, spoons and chopsticks - the main things used rather than trying to cram as much in as possible ( which is what i was trying to do).
I had thought that the angle might make it easier to get to them, but it it would still require a larger space width ways per utensil.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

[attachimg=1]
The bowing of the wood i tried for weeks and i do mean weeks to get rid of by following all sorts of great methods i found on the internet (short of throwing the wood in to the pool for a few days to ensure proper water ingress - how i felt at the time [tongue]).
The cupboard doors panel was soaked with a hose ( cant remember which side), then left with enough weigth on top to turn them concave while i was working away for 2 weeks ( multiple times) and it still didnt make a difference.
View attachment 2
I dont own a thicknesser, so i cant thin them down, i did consider trenching the rear of the doors with the tracksaw and then using maybe a 3mm ply piece to cover it, or using steel or aluminium angle inbedded in the panel to hold them straight.
But thats all a future kurt problem.

All the drawers are made from 12mm b/c marine ply with some 17mm form ply as a base for heavy things, plates, pots etc, and all held to gether with either just dominos or dominos and glue.

The look my wife wanted was of the darker coloured panels all the way around the kitchen, so existing cuttlery draws, pantry and everything else.

There is a lot of trial and error in things i seem to do at home. I dont mind, but I do tend to spend more than i perhaps should have by the time i finish things.

This is basically a dog chasing its tail situation....and exactly why framed panels, breadboard ends, and dovetailed batons exist. The dynamic action of the wood is never going away. You could get it perfect "today" and in as little as a day or two, be right back in the same place.
That panel is too thin for its width and will always move. Then you have the problem of grain selection. That 3rd board, from the left, contains all of the pith. The core of the tree is the least stable part of it, and often the reason that box store construction lumber looks like a water ski.
Excessively wide panels are the most vulnerable to grain flow. It matters where the piece came from in the tree, and even how big the tree was, when harvested.

 

[tjbnwi]

Drawers are easy, we just make them difficult at times…..

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Tom