Kreg Rebel Pocket Hole jig.... Domino patent violations?

fritter63

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Just learned about the new Kreg Rebel Pocket hole jointer.... and after watching this review of it.... dang, it is sure VERY similar to how the Domino setup and adjustments work. Patent violations? Or they all expiring? Or am I seeing more similarities than there really are?

 
I don't know why you're even thinking about the Domino anymore. Didn't you see the thumbnail? "Game Over", baby. It's Game Over time for Domino users. Time to switch to the New Miracle That Will Change Woodworking FOREVER: Cordless Pocket Hole Jigs!!!!

I saw that video yesterday. I don't know the details of Festool's Domino patents but I presume that Kreg would have stayed away from violating a patent.

That said, I wonder who is really going to be interested in Kreg Kordless other than the brand new woodworker with no tools.
 
Um, I don't get which part of a Domino patent this thing might violate.
It drills holes at a fixed angle. Like a biscuit joiner but with a drill bit.
 
I don't see it replacing Domino at all. PH screws and domino tenons not the same. I use both together on a lot of builds.

I also don't think it will replace my bench mounted Kreg.

However I do see it replacing pretty much all use of the portable clamp on Kreg jigs. Except when there might not be room for the machine. On a large piece (too big to put on bench unit). This could probably do ten holes in the time of one hole with the clamp on units.

I think it is a big improvement over those. One tool, set it down and go. No fiddley alignment, no clamp, plus DC attachment! Sure will be handy, and it is on my buy list.

Seth
 
Um, I don't get which part of a Domino patent this thing might violate.
It drills holes at a fixed angle. Like a biscuit joiner but with a drill bit.
1) the tool body quick releases from the base for tool changes
2) the "depth" setting is just like the Domino plunge depth setting
3) the edge guide reference somewhat reminds me of of the domino right angle fence adjustment for vertical depth
4) that you plunge the body forward (like a domino or biscuit jointer) now unlike just drilling with a drill.

Maybe these are too general. Heck, I'm the guy who constantly see stolen plots in every movie he watches now. :)
 
The new pocket jig will be of appeal to pocket hole jig base and people who find the price of a DF500 too much. As for current DF users or people who appreciate the functionality and efficiency of the Domino machine, the new pocket jig is not a loose tenon alternative. In other words, the two different machines serve different needs and woodworkers.
 
These days with all the battery adapters available you can get a tool like this and run it on whatever battery platform youre already using. It won't be long and someone will make a Kreg battery adapter. It's a cool tool, but won't replace a Domino.
 
I still think Triton continues to blow it with their cheap duo-doweler. Wouldn’t cost much to address the issues and that would provide a better cheaper alternative to the Domino.
 
I still think Triton continues to blow it with their cheap duo-doweler. Wouldn’t cost much to address the issues and that would provide a better cheaper alternative to the Domino.
I don't think there's any amount of make-up that'll improve that pig!

Everything about it is just horrible. It would be a major engineering design to get a decent working unit.

Funnily enough I own the Mafell unit they bought to try and engineer their own model from.
 
I don't know why you're even thinking about the Domino anymore. Didn't you see the thumbnail? "Game Over", baby. It's Game Over time for Domino users. Time to switch to the New Miracle That Will Change Woodworking FOREVER: Cordless Pocket Hole Jigs!!!!

I saw that video yesterday. I don't know the details of Festool's Domino patents but I presume that Kreg would have stayed away from violating a patent.

That said, I wonder who is really going to be interested in Kreg Kordless other than the brand new woodworker with no tools.
I don't know how you managed to sit all of way through it without immediately running out to the store and buying at least two of those. I for one, have already deposited my DF 700 directly into the trash can to avoid any potential humiliation.
 
It would be a major engineering design to get a decent working unit.
According to Peter Millard
)
the Triton needs improved manufacturing processes:
  • Rack and pinon fence height adjustment is rough when operated.
  • Trigger doesn't lock on
  • Motor doesn't have soft-start
  • Push spring resistance is too light (was too hard in prototype versions)
  • No pins nor paddles, like the Lamello BJ, but unlike the Lamellos and Dominos, the edges of the fence and body don't line up, and weren't designed to line up.
  • No center of drill mark on the sides of the tool
  • Clear plastic window doesn't have slots to allow for lateral adjustment to drilling center (fixed via plastic scraping and drilling)
He said even at twice the price of the current tool, it'd still be way cheaper than anything else comparable and have the market to itself.
 
According to Peter Millard
)
the Triton needs improved manufacturing processes:
  • Rack and pinon fence height adjustment is rough when operated.
  • Trigger doesn't lock on
  • Motor doesn't have soft-start
  • Push spring resistance is too light (was too hard in prototype versions)
  • No pins nor paddles, like the Lamello BJ, but unlike the Lamellos and Dominos, the edges of the fence and body don't line up, and weren't designed to line up.
  • No center of drill mark on the sides of the tool
  • Clear plastic window doesn't have slots to allow for lateral adjustment to drilling center (fixed via plastic scraping and drilling)
He said even at twice the price of the current tool, it'd still be way cheaper than anything else comparable and have the market to itself.

I suppose it is unique in that no two holes are ever the same!

Shame it's so rubbish as the early Triton stuff that came out of the Moorabbin plant was fairly ground breaking at the time, and probably single handedly resulted in a massive DIY explosion at very affordable prices.

Pretty much everyone had a Triton Mark 1, 2 or 3 back then!
 
I asked ChatGPT to give me a summary of inexpensive Domino-Killers and to rank costs. I think most people that are averse to buying a Domino end up spending almost as much on alternatives, then end up buying the Domino anway.

-----------------------

Great question — this is exactly the trap that a lot of us fall into: “I’ll try the cheaper options first before I commit to a Domino” … and then you look back and realize you’ve already spent Domino money on half-measures.

Let’s run the math. I’ll use rough new-retail USD prices (as of 2025).


🎯 The Benchmark​

  • Festool Domino DF 500 set: ≈ $1,200 (with systainer, assortment of cutters & tenons).
  • (The Domino XL DF 700 is closer to $1,600–1,800, but we’ll benchmark the DF 500 since that’s the more “general use” machine.)

🪚 The Experiment Path (Low-End → Upward)​

  1. Milescraft JointMate (budget dowel jig)
    • Price: ≈ $20
    • Total so far: $20
  2. Rockler Beadlock Pro
    • Price: ≈ $60–80
    • Total so far: ~$100
  3. Jessem Dowelling Jig
    • Price: ≈ $250
    • Total so far: ~$350
  4. Dowelmax Jig
    • Price: ≈ $400–500
    • Total so far: ~$800
  5. Triton DuoDoweler (TDJ600)
    • Price: ≈ $300–350
    • Total so far: ~$1,100

👉 At this point, you’ve already spent Domino money and still don’t have a Domino.


  1. (Optional escalation) Lamello Zeta P2
    • Price: ≈ $1,600–1,800
    • Now you’re deep in premium joinery land, well past Domino territory.



📊 Cost vs Tool Count​

  • By the time you’ve worked through 5 tools (JointMate → Beadlock → Jessem → Dowelmax → Triton), you’ll have spent about $1,100–1,200.
  • That’s essentially the price of a brand-new Festool Domino DF 500.

And if you get tempted by the Lamello… you’ll blow past even the Domino XL budget.



🏆 Takeaway​

  • Experimenting “bottom-up”: You’d likely acquire 5 tools and spend about the same as a Domino.
  • What you actually get: A drawer full of half-redundant jigs that each do 70% of the job, slower.
  • What you don’t get: The speed, efficiency, and resale value of a Domino.



Do you want me to make a step-by-step “Domino Journey” timeline — like how a woodworker would rationalize each purchase before finally giving in to the Domino? (It’s a pretty funny/tragic arc).

Yes.

Perfect 😅 — here’s the “Domino Journey” timeline, the path many woodworkers take before admitting defeat and buying the Festool:




🪚 The Domino Journey (A Tragicomedy in 6 Acts)​


Act I — The Optimist ($20)


  • Purchase: Milescraft JointMate
  • Rationale: “I don’t need to spend $1,200. This little jig will do everything the Domino does!”
  • Reality: Holes wander, alignment’s tricky, joints creak when stressed.
  • Outcome: $20 poorer, but still convinced the right cheap tool exists.



Act II — The Tinkerer ($80)


  • Purchase: Rockler Beadlock Pro
  • Rationale: “This is literally a floating-tenon system! Same principle as Domino. Nailed it.”
  • Reality: Clunky jig, awkward drilling, chunky “beadlock” tenons look like Lincoln Logs.
  • Outcome: A drawer full of oddly ribbed blocks and the faint sense you’re being mocked.



Act III — The Serious Hobbyist ($250)


  • Purchase: Jessem Dowelling Jig
  • Rationale: “I’ll just invest in quality. Dowels are strong — stronger than Dominos even! Who needs a fancy plunge cutter?”
  • Reality: Gorgeous jig, but setup is slow, drilling endless holes is tedious, and you start dreaming of a green machine.
  • Outcome: Your work is precise… but you envy every Domino demo on YouTube.



Act IV — The Engineer ($450)


  • Purchase: Dowelmax
  • Rationale: “Okay, THIS is the ultimate jig. People say it’s stronger than a Domino. I’ve beaten the system!”
  • Reality: Yes, joints are rock-solid. But it takes forever to clamp, drill, unclamp, repeat. You look at your project pile and sigh.
  • Outcome: You’ve achieved strength, not speed. The Domino shadow grows darker.



Act V — The Compromiser ($350)


  • Purchase: Triton DuoDoweler
  • Rationale: “Fine. I’ll buy a machine. This will be basically a Domino.”
  • Reality: It’s fast… but fiddly, less precise, plastic-heavy. You keep thinking, “This feels like the Harbor Freight version of what I really want.”
  • Outcome: By now, you’ve spent Domino money on tools you barely use.



Act VI — The Surrender ($1,200)


  • Purchase: Festool Domino DF 500
  • Rationale: “…Fine. Just shut up and take my money.”
  • Reality: You make 6 perfect joints in 60 seconds. You laugh, you cry, you wonder why you didn’t do this 3 years ago.
  • Outcome: A new era of woodworking speed and smugness begins. You look at your drawer of jigs like old relationships you’ve outgrown.



📊 Totals Before Domino​


  • Tools acquired: ~5
  • Money spent: ≈ $1,100
  • Time wasted: Countless hours fiddling with jigs
  • Emotional cost: Resentment + regret



Would you like me to also break down what happens if, instead of the cheap-to-expensive route, someone jumps straight to the Lamello Zeta P2 path — the “bougie alternative timeline”?
 
The thing with the Domino is that they keep their value really well. Assuming you have the spare cash, you can buy it, try it out for a year or two, and if you don't like it or don't use it, you can sell it for pretty close to what you paid for it. You can't say that for many (or any?) of the "experiment path" tools listed. So the Domino is even better value!!
 
If the goal is just "stick 2 pieces of wood together" sure there are a hundred cheaper ways to do it.
The flaw of pocket screws is exactly that "pockets". Pretty much all of those other alternatives are better, in that regard.

Pocket screws do have a place, but they have limitations too. I have had a K-5 for a long time. That's the bench mounted model, with the locking lever in the front. (You have to reach around for the K-4)
It comes in a kit, with the hand-held Vice-grip type block too. Then there is the little "single hole" unit too. It is great for hose ones you didn't know you needed. However, the pockets are a problem.
They have their place, but they can't do it all.

@4nthony that's hilarious, true but still amusing.
 
Well, if I couldn’t afford a Domino, I’d get the Cam-A-Line dowel jig from Woodpeckers.
Before I got the DF700 I used a mid sized plunge router with long ½” bits. Build things like my 42” wide front exterior door.
 
Patent violation is done on a percentage basis and IIRC in Oz it means the competing device/machine must be different by at least 30% whatever that means! The fact that some parts of a device are the same does not violate a patent in itself if other parts are totally different. That is why patent lawyers exist I guess and deep pockets of cash are the first thing needed when you hold a patent. Been there and done that and got ripped off in the process.
 
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