Laguna table saw

[Lbob131]

Nice little saw  the Fusion. Very well finished with superb machining  on the cast iron beds.
Not sure I like  the anti kickback/articulated  upper  guard. And no dust extraction  on it which some people might not like.

I notice the 45  degree  function  operates  in the opposite  direction  to  SIP  table saws. Handy I guess  if  (like me) you  only  use  the fence  on the right  hand side of the blade all the time.

Wasn't so handy on my old SIP.

I believe the 10"  Fusion costs - $1299
From here..
http://www.lagunatools.com/New-Machines/fusion-10in-tablesaw-110v

And the 10"  SIP  £1080 ($2198  Canadian Dollars)
http://www.craigmoreonline.co.uk/sip-table-saw-10/?gclid=CLyQiLzwm8cCFYbItAodiIgPOQ

I think both machines  are manufactured  in Asia. Not necessarily  an indication  of bad quality.
SIP  fit a 3hp motor  and Laguna 1 3/4HP.
The SIP  has a micro adjuster  for the fence  and additional  slider  add  on optional.
The Fusion has Dado  facility  I believe.

Laguna  machinery is not available in the UK  AFAIK.
Dado  facility  would never ever  get past the border  police  at Calais. LoL. (Unless  its a Felder)

An interesting  discussion  here  on Laguna..
http://festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/laguna-tools/

Haven't had time to read it all yet.  ;D
Had no idea  they were  based in southern California.

Just something I  would note about  the plastic  push stick  that  is supplied with the Fusion.
My old SIP  came with one of those  and I  snagged it  on the end of the blade once  and the kick back nearly broke my wrist.

 

[Tayler_mann]

Well, I'm an American, proud of it, and not stubborn. I've never seen a sliding saw in my 30 plus years of woodworking except on the Internet.

I tend to buy the best products that offer an excellent chance of getting good support. If I lived in Europe where sliding saws are common and where dealers are more local, I'd definitely consider buying one, especially if it had the Sawstop safety feature.

Not stubborn, just a realist.

First of all, Hammer is in the USA and backs their warranties 100%. Where my colleague and his Powermatic that took 6 months to receive and didn't work out of the crate took 1 full year to replace. The Hammer is a money back gurantee and don't taint their products by having a half witted sales men trying to back their product. The sliding saw and movable fence should reduce all aspects of kick back and pinching. If you have 10 employees using a table saw than the saw stop is probably a good idea I will admit that. If you are a fully skilled and knowledgeable soloist than the sliding saw should give you enough safety to not lose a finger.

I misunderstood, Holmz.  When you wrote 'I got this:...' , I thought you owned the same saw in that link.  That's alright, I'll ask my European slider follow-up questions in another thread and hopefully hear from actual owners, and not some tool aficionado with a wish list and strong opinions on how to spend money not their own.  Which brings me to the OP's inquiry, which the way I'm reading it, is simply asking for feedback from actual owners of a specific saw--the Laguna Infinity.  What follows is nothing remotely related to that very specific query.  Instead one reads things like saw stop is equivalent to a craftsman saw, or that a hammer slider is about the same money as that Infinity--all kinds of bogus statements that neither help the OP's query nor anyone else for that matter.  It's alright to rant and rave, freedom of speech and all that, but it would help if the arguments had at least some basis in fact.

Now to your comment. I do not own a Hammer sliding saw. However, I planned on buying either a Laguna, Powermatic, or something similar of a saw. I had my sights on the Powermatic and it cost $3000. Right before I pulled the trigger I went to the local lumber mill who has the 79" sliding table. With that visit and one real sight of one of hear beautifully crafted machines running I immediately canceled that and am waiting till I get my shop built. I will use my TS 55 for 5 years of I had to so I i could get he Hammer. That's why I left the comment is that I was in the OP same shoes before. I made the decision on waiting because I realized the mistake I would make in purchasing something else, something with dated technology. Nuff said on this thread. It turned into brutality and weak minded insults when it was meant for a learning experience from all angles.

 

[nickao]

A Cabinet saw is NOT dated technology.  A 30 year old cabinet table saw is dated tech. We can compare  European type saws verse "conventional" or cabinet saws and though some call the European saws "Modern" saws, Sliding table saws and fences have been around since the inception of the table saw! Those are styles and both styles are dated in 2015. Both have  models that are older  with older tech and newer models with newer technology.

New table saws of any type are all new technology, not dated and not old.  Anyone that has used a 30 year old table saw knows that in about 2 seconds! The manufacturers actually have to make the induction motors louder on purpose now to be safe so we can hear them. The dust collection is fantastic. The fences on some units can be as precise as .001. The tables and extensions can be granite or precision ground steel. The smaller 1 3/4HP motors are now powerful enough to do almost any operation a 3HP or even 5HP unit could do. And as we know the safety devices are becoming prevalent. It's all new tech,, not dated!

There is a difference between  a sliding table saw and a European style saw. A slider of course can be a cabinet saw. So calling it a European ,for me anyhow, makes more sense than calling it a modern or sliding saw. European Table Saws generally can't take a stacked dada head and the fences tend to be much Weaker overall for what us American actually do with table saws. Many of these operations people with Europeans saws simply must use routers and router tables. And of course the main difference is that the European table saws are sliders, designed so from the ground up.

A European table saw is in no way "better" than a Cabinet(conventional) saw, it's different. They may be "better" for some people, but not all. If someone didn't cut large panels why in the world would they need a big sliding table? The table saw actually excels at a lot of things no sliding table is even needed for. And in my 32 years in woodworking I still haven't needed a sliding table! And if I did I would toss on a nice after market sliding fence to my table saw with my custom 96" Incra set up.

A TS is not a substitute for many application of a table saw and vise versa. Yes there are cross over operations, but I would much rather use a TS to cut a stack of ply on site, but I  want my table saw to kick out tons of 2" rails for my cabinets.

I don't suggest anyone wait years to get something they can't afford instead of getting a tool now that they can afford and jump in the hobby. IMHO, even a 250.00 DeWalt table saw is better in hand than no table saw at all. And a 600.00 DeWalt(the newest model being so fantastic), though loud, is more than likely what most Festool guys need more so than a European or Cabinet saw as they depend on the portability. The Laguna the OP talks about is not a bench top or portable, but I have seen the 1 3/4 category saws like this Laguna on job sites so there is a possibility at least, not without some effort, for the Laguna to go certain larger jobs where the Conventional Cabinet and European saws just can't go.

Another thought, instead of a 3000.00 cabinet saw or 6000.00 European saw maybe consider a band saw as the center of the shop, especially for some people that can and do use the TS so much. The Band saw long ago became the center point of my shop with the table saw being used, but no where near the way it once was. And because of that a large expensive table saw simply is not warranted for me. Many people that have gone to the band saw as the shop center have found the same. Especially those that have adopted the Track saws.

As far as the Laguna the OP asked about it's a great saw in the  1 3/4hp category.  I chose a craftsman in the same 1 3/4HP category that was 400.00 less on sale and for many years it has been kicking it. I have had zero issues. This particular Craftsman table saw still gets great ratings to this day. I made some fantastic mods. 96" incra fence, cast iron table extensions, huge outfeeds, etc and am very happy. And I can slam ply and even over sized MDF panels through with no slider!

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I dunno, my 83 year old Whitney 77 TS with a rolling left table puts just about every saw I have ever used or been in front of, to shame.

The arbor bearing is the size of some of these new 3hp foreign motors.  That saw will run all day long and cut anything you feed the 16" blade.

My 87 year old greenlee 495 will rip anything you stick through it, even 4" maple and leave edges that need no further attention for joinery.

Yes, they are no 10 foot stroke slider, but I use no ply in anything.

They are awkward to SL lumber, much easier to pay another nickle a foot to have my lumber R1E.

 

[Birdhunter]

In the effort to not be a stubborn American, I watched the Hammer video and read a number of articles on European sliding saws.

If I were cutting a lot of sheet goods or large panels, I think the Hammer saw would be better than my Sawstop. For the small stuff I do, the Sawstop is better. A track saw helps with the sheet goods break down.

I was impressed with the quality and engineering of the Hammer saw. The video was excellent and presented the uses of the slider.

If I had room in my shop, is order a Hammer.

 

[Tayler_mann]

In the effort to not be a stubborn American, I watched the Hammer video and read a number of articles on European sliding saws.

If I were cutting a lot of sheet goods or large panels, I think the Hammer saw would be better than my Sawstop. For the small stuff I do, the Sawstop is better. A track saw helps with the sheet goods break down.

I was impressed with the quality and engineering of the Hammer saw. The video was excellent and presented the uses of the slider.

If I had room in my shop, is order a Hammer.

I know I wasn't going to post on this again but you made it lively again. First off Way to be progressive  [big grin]. Quick question though, do you not think being able to straight line rip up to 4" rough cut lumber would be useful. I guess truly it doesn't even need to be rough cut because 99/100 times I have to put a  straight line (with my TS) because it has warped or gotten slightly damaged in shipping on a large palette. I don't care about breaking down panels with the large sliding table I want to straight line all my material! I am in the business of building furniture and I am a solo mission except the very very few times I need someone for glue ups. I build fine furniture that is perfect. My raised panels do no get squared in a saw they are not a mm off (sometimes it happens though  [mad]). I have found that since I switched to my TS as my main saw for ripping and I move my saw through my material not my material through my saw I am much more accurate and my furniture builds have become that much better, precise, and quicker. I never have to clamp out the .1 mm of human error I made with my saw on a glue up anymore. I screw my mirrored parts together rip them at once. I also haven't touched a jointer in going on 8 months! Do you know how much time I save not sanding tear out from a jointer (haven't invested in a whisper helical cutter yet)! So the main point to this rant I just did is that moving your tool across your material is always going to be more accurate than your material through your tool. Why do you think a CNC has a spindle that moves or why flatbed cutters do as well! Your machine could take up 1/10 the foot print but guess what it is inaccurate even when a machine is feeding it. So think of it like this; with a sliding table saw you are moving your tool (sliding table) across your material. Make your first cut with the table and the second flip the piece and throw it through the fence, or like our local mill had done has made nice little marks to square it up on the sliding table and rip away! Perfect cut every time.

My mentor and I had a race one day when he was giving me a bad time about my TS. We made a 18" x 32" inset panel door. With rails and stiles 50x20x10 (wide x thick x r&s) he used the table saw and the edge sander for jointing. Guess who made it to the shaper first. And also guess who's rail and stiles where still 50 mm on the button. I have to say after the shaper though and into glue up he wizzed passed me like road runner past Wiley coyote. He had also been doing woodworking and carpentry for 50 years. His panel also had a slightly better edge when stained since he jointed it with an edge sander with 220 on it. The edge sander/jointer is probably the coolest tool ever seen. His panel was also within such a small fraction of a mm closer than mine, but I think it was error I came across during glue up. I was still defeated in the end but still beat him with the pieces at the shaper.

Please I truly so wander why some people do not see the hype in the straight line rips with the sliding table? I want to know for constructive criticism I can look at the machine with before I purchase one. Maybe it will lead me to a different model like I was swayed away from cabinet saw once before.

 

[travisj]

I "upgraded" from a Powermatic contractor saw to a Sawstop cabinet saw.  I thought about "European" saws and briefly looked into them.  My decision was based on a couple of things:
I use a dado set frequently, I make cove molding on a table saw, but most importantly, I am comfortable with a traditional cabinet style saw.  My impetus for the upgrade was to get functioning dust collection, but my wife made the Sawstop decision.  Her comfort level has increased with the addition of the safety brake and the fact we have small children who want to learn and work in the shop with me. 

Essentially, I chose to go with what I was comfortable with which I think should be one of the main questions involved. 
After that has been met, what are the other reasons for the upgrade?  You can do a lot with the older Craftsman 113 saws (my grandfather and dad both had them).  A fence, pulley, and belt upgrade can make a world of difference on any contractor type saw.  I loved mine, but I couldn't get the dust collection dialed in.  I personally don't see the $1k benefit of going from a contractor saw to another contractor saw.  I'm all for shiny new tools, but in the end, what is the OP looking to achieve?

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I would have no use for straight lining lumber on a big slider, it is not efficient.  And all I use is solid lumber.

I pay the hardwood supplier a nickle to do that.  I can tune it up on the 30" jointer if need be. 

 

[Meyer138]

I am also looking at the Laguna Fusion table saw to complement the Festool line of products I will soon be purchasing.  I think this is a great option for the hobbyist to semi-pro category. It will cover 99% of what most WW do in these categories and can be converted to 220v!  The unsatisfactory customer service opinions are also outdated (have not found many post 2012).  The bosch 4100-09 is also a front runner (for space-saving and ability to take dado blades) since it will be stationary in the garage most of the time. 

I was going to purchase the sawstop 3hp, but decided the safety is hyped up more than needs to be. I don't have deadlines, therefore I should always be paying attention (and use push sticks, etc). Tell me, how many accidents have you heard of recently with all the safety gear included (other than sawstop) that have happened while using a riving knife, push sticks, anti-kickback devices, goggles and hearing protection?  I don't think the extra money is worth it if you are careful.

That's like saying a gun isn't safe if it doesn't have a safety......keep your finger off the trigger unless you're ready to shoot! Pay attention on what you are doing......