Lamello

[GhostFist]

I  agree with what others above have said. Zeta for cabinets, df500 for furniture

 

[Holmz]

They are 1000-1050 euros without VAT in 230v from Germany.

It is only worth it if one is doing sheet goods, otherwise it is a waste of funds at any price.

In NA 120V I wish, For the US market Amazon.com is around $2300 with out tax or accessories...
...

John

The 230v would require a transformer or some wiring in a shop as 220v.
Stacks of connectors add up pretty quickly, as well as the accessories.
Easily one can shell out another k$ without a great deal of effort.

I have a lamello Zeta p-2 and I do love it and the various connecting systems are great but for ease of use you can't go past the domino it may be a one trick pony but it does that trick very well. As for the Mafell dd 40 I nearly bought one when I was living in the uk and it is a very impressive machine  but at the end of the day just buy a dowel jig it does the same job.

I think the DD40 would come into its own when you use its track system. I've been tempted to get one, even though I have both Dominos and a Zeta P2. The annoying thing about the DD40 is there are 2 models - exactly the same footprint, but with different power and RPM ... which is fine if you know your scope of activity before you buy. To me the DD40 and its track would make for the easiest LR32 build outside of a CNC.

For timber framing the low RPM one, and for "going the rabbit" with smaller bits the higher RPM one.
That said, I would personally get the lower RPM one and go slow... just in case I ever wanted to go big.

I  agree with what others above have said. Zeta for cabinets, df500 for furniture

^Agree^ Sheet goods is its forte.
So even some face framed cabinet would likely prefer the Domino for the raised panels and small stuff. Only the carcass would work well with the Zeta.

 

[leakyroof]

You've already gotten way more replies about the Lamello than you might have expected, but here's one more....
I bought my Domino 500 back when they were still pretty new to the US, but mine is the slightly later model with the non-pin front fence.  I haven't touched my Lamello Top 20 machine since.......
I still expect there's something I'll use it for, but I haven't dragged it out in years since I can sneak a 4mm Domino into what I'm working on for small stuff, or use the opposite end of the sizing with my larger 700 model if need be.
I can only really use biscuits 0, 10, 20 with the Lamello
I don't do Knockdown work yet, so the option of special fasteners and machines to work with them is something I'm glad is out there if I ever move in that direction..

 

[DrD]

I use my Domino on carcass work, but also incorporate pocket hole/Kreg joints.  Started thinking about this the other day, since I'm not inclined to give up the pocket holes, what does the Domino have over biscuits?  Couldn't come up with much, so I drug out my old DeWalt, and guess what?  The work was accomplished faster with the DeWalt  than with the Domino and since there are pocket holes (I use the Kreg Klamping Table for assembly) I don't think strength/integrity are much different. 
While a Lamello would be nice, it's too expensive for me, but I sure enjoyed watch Norm use his on NYWS.  I guess it's what you're used to using.

DrD

 

[Svar]

what does the Domino have over biscuits? 

1) Strength and longevity: long and thick solid wood tenon vs short (~10 mm deep into the stock) piece of particle board.
2) Can't stick a biscuit into the end of narrow stock.
Nothing wrong with either, just different methods for different tasks.

 

[Birdhunter]

Thanks for all the inputs.

Decided to stick with my DeWalt as I seldom use biscuits any more.

I have built several cutting boards/serving trays out of marble wood and royal Ebony. One was made using biscuits as I had loaned my Domino to a friend. I made two more after getting my Domino back.

Cutting biscuit slots was faster than using the Domino. The two trays I made using the Domino had much better surface alignment than with biscuits. This could be that I'm more used to the Domino, but I think the #5 tenons provide a lot better alignment than the #10 biscuits.

Although the cutting went faster with the DeWalt, total work time was shortened with the Domino in that I could go on to the next step after a much shorter glue drying time. The Domino tenons were solidly in place after only 5 minutes of drying time. I know the glue wasn't totally set, but it was solid enough for practical purposes.

 

[antss]

Not to be obtuse but, if you're gluing up staves does it really matter what you're using for alignment in terms of drying time ?

The glue dries at the same rate whether it's on a biscuit or a domino. You just spread glue , insert alignment device add next piece, repeat. Then put the whole assembly in your clamps.... yes?

If the glue has cured enough to handle - it's cured. That's time is not affected by a biscuit or domino, or dowel, or a homebrew loose tenon that I'm aware of.  Now I think that assembly is stronger with dominoes  (than biscuits) at the end of the day, but I just don't see how the cycle time is faster because of it .

Am I missing something ?

 

[Holmz]

The 'Tenso' holds it together, so the glue can be wet... Or no glue... But it is not designed to be removable so one uses glue with them

 

[GhostFist]

There really supposed to be used with glue. If something goes wrong the piece can be in connected if you're frantic enough.

 

[Holmz]

There really supposed to be used with glue. If something goes wrong the piece can be in connected if you're frantic enough.

For the boneheaded [blink] one could actually assemble it all with the ClampX, and then if it all was working OK then remove the ClampX and put in Tensos.
Obviously ^here^ I am speaking from experience.  [embarassed]

Of course I was too lazy to actually undo it all and put in tensos, and I like to work slow.

 

[antss]

You guys that are gluing up strips for things like cutting boards using $2000 tools with a box of fitting that cost $2 a piece and doing it all twice must be trust funders that also have nothing better to do with your time AND just like to tell folks you have exotic branded tools .

Because if you were doing this professionally, I can't believe there's a large enough market of customers willing to pay the premimum for your glued up product required to turn a profit and cover your xtra labor burden too.  [eek]

Heck, you could even just run them through your router table on a finger joint bit and glue em right up without then having to insert any biscuit, domino,tenso, clampx, spline ect.  and it would have 25-50% more glue surface too boot.  Would prob be just as fast too.

Now, if we're just discussing this a pure hobby and what's really important here is the "gizmos" and the acquisition of such , and telling (showing off) of one's new toys , and the satisfaction of owning/collecting said gizmos , and maybe their occasional use like a birdhunter may relish or envy a new Purdy..............................

If so , this has really turned into a pointless discussion.  If you can shoot straight , that $150,000 12 bore double isn't any better a tool for the task of acquiring dinner than a $1500 Beretta semiauto, and those aren't any better than a Russian knockoff cost half again as much.

Like the lamello, festool, and dewalt, they are all tools - and will all do the job in the hands of a skilled operator.

 

[jimbouk]

The lamello is for sheet goods not what you are talking about.

Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk

 

[Birdhunter]

Regarding the question about "glueing up staves", I am attaching a photo is the trays. The borders are royal ebony and the center is marble wood.

 

[Birdhunter]

" that $150,000 12 bore double"

Oh please please don't tell my wife about that gun!!!!

 

[DrD]

[member=727]antss[/member]

Ah, but once you've effortlessly tracked and then smoked a clay with your Vandalia Grade Krieghoff, you'll never be satisfied with anything less, I guarantee.

DrD

 

[GhostFist]

For the record, I work professionally as a set Carpenter on film and use my lamello constantly for a variety of applications. There is the initial cost of the machine which is expensive, there is the expense of the connectors, but there is money saved when I don't have to fill holes for fasteners or use 1000 clamps.
Check your attitude, or are you trying to show off?

You are on a premium power tool forum, if you're still humming and hawing about the price of this stuff then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[leakyroof]

[member=727]antss[/member]

Ah, but once you've effortlessly tracked and then smoked a clay with your Vandalia Grade Krieghoff, you'll never be satisfied with anything less, I guarantee.

DrD

. But do you store your shotguns in a custom case from Holland and Holland..... [doh]
I'm amazed at the cost of these firearm makers and the things they offer.
Way off topic for a moment, but Land Rovers warranty cost on this Holland and Holland case is $40,000.... [eek]

 

[Holmz]

... You are on a premium power tool forum, if you're still humming and hawing about the price of this stuff then I don't know what to tell you.

There is some psychology with confirmation bias, and belief that the tool is only worth the cost... if the tool is green.
This happens all the time, and usually goes something like:

1) You need the green tool because you get what you pay for.
2) Those tools do not do anything different than the green tool, and are therefore a waste of money.

And the use of "Trust funder" to discredit and emasculate them, gets extra credit points.

"Clear on the set"

But it is all true about glueing the staves, so there is some likelihood that we were taking across different tools.

 

[antss]

I believe hemming was the word you were searching for.  And I'm not really doing that either.  I've been using and BUYING  Festools long before any of you guys knew they existed.  Back in the days they were called Festo and had powder blue accents and army grey bodies !

I have shelves and systainers full of them, but am not naive enough to think they hung the moon because they are better run than most tool companies.  Sometimes a Festool is the best tool for the job.  Other times, it's not. Sometimes that "not" tool would do the job, but wouldn't be better or faster. Sometimes the other tool is cheap tool from a manufacturer that doesn't have a stellar rep, or customer service, or cult following.  None of that has any bearing on whether that tool can do the job or is better than the fancy tool.  That's my point .  And this is the "other tool" section , not the "other premium tool" section.  Based on those, you shouldn't be so accusatory or quick with the "tude" comments. Pot calling the kettle black and all that is the pertinent idiom I think.

Doesn't appear birdhunter came round to ask about ownership experience, prestige, or what would be a good acquisition for a collection.  He asked if Lamello's added cost for a biscuit joiner would be warranted for his project.  Seems that the fan clubs' argument wasn't persuasive enough for him.  Also seems some of you took my questions as a personal affront.  Sorry.  I never said that Lamello wasn't a fine tool, or wouldn't do the job.  I did, and still, say that buying a new tool for that job is kinda silly and buying a zeta or other doubly expensive option for gluing up strips is not warranted- especially if you're not going to use it for other purposes.

That it no way means that I think those tools can't do the job - they can. But most probably already have tooling that can do a better job already, and its silly from a non collector's point of view to buy one to do that task only.  Ghost - I totally get that those Lamello's are valuable to you and your work on a constantly changing and moving jobsite.  For fixed based operations of things like bhunter is making there are better options, sorry.  A better tool is not always one of superior quality. But you're certainly welcome to disagree with me.

DrD - never cared much for the Prussian guns' chunky receivers.  Personal taste - K guns are stout and they certainly refined what Remington just couldn't figure out. I prefer the Italian style myself. But I don't take affront to folks that tell me they are too dainty or that my 28 SxS isn't the right tool for clays.  [wink]

leaky - they have a liquor cabinet option as well.  I'll bet if you know whom to ask you could get a roulette wheel and a pull out bed and have all the vices then covered. All of that stuff just leaves less room for the dogs though. So again - I think there are better tools for that job. Like a slip or three.  My storage cabinet is made by antss out of cuban mahogany - a very rare material in the U.S. And it doesn't leave the house.  I do admire that H&H design freshened up by those aluminum sides though. 

 

[leakyroof]

leaky - they have a liquor cabinet option as well.  I'll bet if you know whom to ask you could get a roulette wheel and a pull out bed and have all the vices then covered. All of that stuff just leaves less room for the dogs though. So again - I think there are better tools for that job. Like a slip or three.  My storage cabinet is made by antss out of cuban mahogany - a very rare material in the U.S. And it doesn't leave the house.  I do admire that H&H design freshened up by those aluminum sides though.

. But $40,000 dollars nice????  A 5.0 liter Supercharged Engine at the front of the car costs $39,000.  The shotgun case costs more than the engine .... [eek]