Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
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Bugsysiegals
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How does this compare to the parf system? Has anybody used both?
Cheese
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Svar said:
[member=15585]Svar[/member]
I finally got the Hole-Boring Jig.
The template holes are 37.40 mm ID.
The brass template bushing has a 30.00 mm OD.
The Whiteside router bit has a 12.70 mm OD.
So going strictly by the numbers, the holes should theoretically be 20.10 mm ID.
After boring 60 holes they actually come out to an average of 20.19 mm with a standard deviation of .05 mm.
Unfortunately, the Woodpecker dogs that ship with the MFT Layout & Assembly Square have an OD of 19.90 mm, while Veritas dogs have an OD of 19.80 mm.
So again doing the math:
20.19 - 19.90 (Woodpeckers dog) = .29 mm/.011" slop.
20.19 - 19.80 (Veritas dog) = .39 mm/.015" slop.
The good news is that I bored 12 holes and over the distance of 12 horizontal holes (approx 45”), from the leading edge of the 1st, to the leading edge of the 12th, I’m measuring 1055.50/1055.75 mm from a theoretically perfect value of 1056 mm. [cool]...very... [cool]
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Cheese
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I received the Woodpeckers MFT Jig and decided to use it to route 20mm holes in 19mm thick Baltic birch using the recommended Whiteside 1/2" router bit.
The first 32 holes:
I worked on this top outside on a large teak table (roughly 250#) that will seat 12 people so it's rather sturdy, however it will still sway a little bit, much like an MFT. Not a lot of sway but it's there. The hole making was difficult and after the initial plunge, the router still had to be moved in a circular pattern 8-10 times for each hole. It was slow going. The hole diameters averaged 20.20mm with a std deviation of .2mm. Time needed was 2 hours. [mad]
The second 32 holes:
It started raining so I moved the project downstairs to the work bench. This bench is solid with no movement what so ever, it probably weighs in around 600-700#. The hole making was much easier because of the sturdiness of the bench, however the router still needed to be moved in a circular pattern 4-5 times for each hole. The hole diameters averaged 20.15mm with a std deviation of .05mm. A definite improvement. Time needed was 1-1/4 hours. [sad]
At this point I decided to halt the project and just think about the next step. I had now produced 64 holes that averaged 20.20mm to 20.15mm in diameter. However the actual range of hole sizes was 19.92mm to 20.54mm. [eek] This was pretty much out of control for precision positioning with existing commercial dogs.
Woodpeckers dogs = 19.90mm
Veritas dogs = 19.80mm
What I had was a top that could be used for clamping but certainly not for locating pieces precisely.
After more measuring I realized the hole location accuracy for this jig was spot on. After routing 12 holes, the distance from the leading edge of the 1st hole to the leading edge of the 12th hole measured 1055.50mm versus a perfect dimension of 1056.00mm. Not quite up to CNC tolerances but extremely accurate for this type of fixture.
What I really needed to control was the final hole diameter if I wanted to use this for precision registration of parts. Uniform hole diameter is what I was after. Once I achieved that, I could then make custom sized dogs that fit the holes or purchase the adjustable dogs from UJK.
With this in mind, I decided the next step would be to purchase the Festool 20mm hinge boring bit and use it with the Woodpeckers jig. The Festool bit would give me a consistently round hole and a consistently sized hole.
I just needed to machine an aluminum adapter ring with a snug ID to fit the Woodpeckers brass guide bushing and a snug OD to fit inside the Woodpeckers template. The final 32 holes were routed with this combination.
The third 32 holes:
The project was again moved outside and placed on the teak table. The OF 1400 speed was set to 4 and that seemed like a sweet spot. The holes were incredibly easy to produce because the only motion needed was to plunge the boring bit into the ply. No extra circular motion needed. The holes came out to 20.10mm with a std deviation that's nil. Time needed was 15-20 minutes. [big grin] [big grin]
Photo 1. The aluminum adapter bushing.
Photo 2. The aluminum bushing along with the Woodpeckers guide bushing.
Photo 3. The average play between a dog and the first 32 holes, .016-.017".
Photo 4. The average play between a dog and the second 32 holes, .007-.008".
Photo 5. The average play between a dog and the third 32 holes, .005".
Photo 6. A typical hole routed with the 1/2" router bit and the circular motion needed to clean up the hole.
Photo 7. A look at several of the holes routed with the 1/2" router bit. Almost all of them appear to be irregular and a little out of round.
Photo 8. A look at several of the holes routed with the Festool hinge boring bit. Uniform in size and round.
Photo 9. The MFT layout square.
The first 32 holes:
I worked on this top outside on a large teak table (roughly 250#) that will seat 12 people so it's rather sturdy, however it will still sway a little bit, much like an MFT. Not a lot of sway but it's there. The hole making was difficult and after the initial plunge, the router still had to be moved in a circular pattern 8-10 times for each hole. It was slow going. The hole diameters averaged 20.20mm with a std deviation of .2mm. Time needed was 2 hours. [mad]
The second 32 holes:
It started raining so I moved the project downstairs to the work bench. This bench is solid with no movement what so ever, it probably weighs in around 600-700#. The hole making was much easier because of the sturdiness of the bench, however the router still needed to be moved in a circular pattern 4-5 times for each hole. The hole diameters averaged 20.15mm with a std deviation of .05mm. A definite improvement. Time needed was 1-1/4 hours. [sad]
At this point I decided to halt the project and just think about the next step. I had now produced 64 holes that averaged 20.20mm to 20.15mm in diameter. However the actual range of hole sizes was 19.92mm to 20.54mm. [eek] This was pretty much out of control for precision positioning with existing commercial dogs.
Woodpeckers dogs = 19.90mm
Veritas dogs = 19.80mm
What I had was a top that could be used for clamping but certainly not for locating pieces precisely.
After more measuring I realized the hole location accuracy for this jig was spot on. After routing 12 holes, the distance from the leading edge of the 1st hole to the leading edge of the 12th hole measured 1055.50mm versus a perfect dimension of 1056.00mm. Not quite up to CNC tolerances but extremely accurate for this type of fixture.
What I really needed to control was the final hole diameter if I wanted to use this for precision registration of parts. Uniform hole diameter is what I was after. Once I achieved that, I could then make custom sized dogs that fit the holes or purchase the adjustable dogs from UJK.
With this in mind, I decided the next step would be to purchase the Festool 20mm hinge boring bit and use it with the Woodpeckers jig. The Festool bit would give me a consistently round hole and a consistently sized hole.
I just needed to machine an aluminum adapter ring with a snug ID to fit the Woodpeckers brass guide bushing and a snug OD to fit inside the Woodpeckers template. The final 32 holes were routed with this combination.
The third 32 holes:
The project was again moved outside and placed on the teak table. The OF 1400 speed was set to 4 and that seemed like a sweet spot. The holes were incredibly easy to produce because the only motion needed was to plunge the boring bit into the ply. No extra circular motion needed. The holes came out to 20.10mm with a std deviation that's nil. Time needed was 15-20 minutes. [big grin] [big grin]
Photo 1. The aluminum adapter bushing.
Photo 2. The aluminum bushing along with the Woodpeckers guide bushing.
Photo 3. The average play between a dog and the first 32 holes, .016-.017".
Photo 4. The average play between a dog and the second 32 holes, .007-.008".
Photo 5. The average play between a dog and the third 32 holes, .005".
Photo 6. A typical hole routed with the 1/2" router bit and the circular motion needed to clean up the hole.
Photo 7. A look at several of the holes routed with the 1/2" router bit. Almost all of them appear to be irregular and a little out of round.
Photo 8. A look at several of the holes routed with the Festool hinge boring bit. Uniform in size and round.
Photo 9. The MFT layout square.
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bigshaw929
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Cheese,Cheese said:
Did you make your own adapter bushing? I’m interested in acquiring one if possible? I don’t have the ability to make one but it looks to be just what this woodpeckers set is missing.
Thanks,
Bill
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Rick Herrick
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Morning [member=44099]Cheese[/member] . I am very interested in buying this WP jig and after reading this thread, it looks like this bushing you made is the key. Will this have to be homemade, as you did, or do you know of another option?bigshaw929 said:
I use the Part MK-II with no issues and I have a cutting table I made, that gives me good 5-cut results. I don't anticipate using this jig for registration work but I do like the thought of less time doing the boring, which I think you indicated that the boring bit is much quicker than the 1/2" cutter?
Cheese
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Rick Herrick said:
Hey Rick...unfortunately, machining a custom bushing is the only route that I know of. [sad] Over the last several years I've had 25-30 requests for a bushing so there is a market out there and it's probably a lot larger than we think. I've even given the dimensions/drawing to [member=7266]jeffinsgf[/member] for him to diddle around with.
Just make sure that the bushing is a tight fit in the router and a slightly looser fit in the template. That way every time you reposition the router the bushing remains in the router.
I should add, I was boring through 18 mm Baltic birch rather than MDF and maybe that's the reason I had the issues that I did. At any rate, I just needed to solve the problem and the Festool cutter along with the bushing was the charm. The holes were rounder, easier to cut and faster to cut.
Also make sure to place a spoil board under the work piece to prevent tear-out on the bottom surface.
Rick Herrick
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Thanks Cheese. I sure hope WP could do something to help here. If anyone can do machining like this, WP has the set up to do it.
Rick Herrick
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Plywood.
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- TSO still sells the ParfGuide Mk 2 . . . and its in stock [wink]
Hans
Hans
Start your own thread. Rick Herrick
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acer66 said:
I think it might be a good tool but I have been trying to find the correct 1/2" bit I want to use because it looks like getting a bushing that would work with the 20mm boring bit ain't gonna happen. For a quick couple of holes, this jig would be easier than the Parf MK-II.
Cheese
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Rick Herrick said:
I'm certainly not trying to throw salt in the wounds Rick but...I was working in the shop tonight checking out some prototype items and on a whim I decided to measure the distance between the spacing of the vertical holes and the spacing of the horizontal holes on an MFT that I produced using the Woodpecker's jig...the results were simply incredible.
Using a go/no-go gauge there were only 2 sets of holes in the entire field that failed the test. And those holes were machined using the original Woodpecker recommended 1/2" diameter router bit. Everything that was machined using the Festool bit with the bushing adapter passed the go/no-go gauge test.
There seems to be at least two things to do to improve this entire "make your own MFT process".
Number one is to standardize on a cutter diameter or on a manufacturer of a cutter......oh boy, just thinking about this will definitely lead me down another rabbit hole...it's probably time to stop.
Rick Herrick
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No worries Cheese, more information is usually better. I usually go to Whiteside when I need a bit. The ones on the WP for this jig are all 'up-cut'. Being somewhat of a rookie, I thought you would want a down cut here so your entry hole would be the best. The WP sight does not list any of the 3-flute varieties, which I think may be better? Thats why I spent a lot of time yesterday trying to figure which 1/2" bit. Since you again confirm the 20mm is probably the better option, I will keep on that path.
Since the OF1400 is somewhat 'center challenged', can I do this with the OF1010? I saw that the FT 20mm bit is 8mm shank so it would fit, but would the router be strong enough? But again, that leaves me with the bushing issue. Really not sure why WP didn't come up with one.
Since the OF1400 is somewhat 'center challenged', can I do this with the OF1010? I saw that the FT 20mm bit is 8mm shank so it would fit, but would the router be strong enough? But again, that leaves me with the bushing issue. Really not sure why WP didn't come up with one.
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