Latest GRC-12 TSO Product

[Klemm]

[member=67413]box185[/member] - you're quite right that a ball driver with a long enough blade or a flexible shaft driver could be made to work. Where we derailed with the wedge or other expansion device was the cost imposed by market level pricing for such a low volume item in woodworking.
it would be interesting to see a proforma itemized list of parts with production and tooling cost for every single line item, plus tooling amortization and see what selling price would have to result.

Ask what the individual cost of the mass produced "D" Wedgelock is.

Hans

 

[rst]

Whenever I design a jig or tool modification, I always subject it to the KISS principle, a philosophy very similar to Ocam's Razor... Keep It Simple Stupid.  It always amazes me how many things a designed in an overly complicated manner.  I sell service and repair Gyro Tech automatic doors.  The gearbox for their automatic swinging doors was the original non-hydraulic or air operated door opener.  It was designed by one man in the 60's and every part excepting the motor and controls is exactly like the original today.  How many designs can claim that...not even Festool.

 

[chrisrosenb]

I put the GRC-12 connectors on a pair of 1080 guide rails.

No alignment variation on inside extrusion
[attachimg=4]

Isn't the inside extrusion, where the saw rides, the only extrusion that needs to be in alignment?
That is where my alignment jigs mount.

 

[Klemm]

I put the GRC-12 connectors on a pair of 1080 guide rails.

No alignment variation on inside extrusion
[attachimg=4]

Isn't the inside extrusion, where the saw rides, the only extrusion that needs to be in alignment?
That is where my alignment jigs mount.

[member=1903]JD2720[/member]  -You are correct to the extent  that you are talking about "lining up the two ends of the upside-down t-slot the saw rides on. That's the easy part. The challenge is to keep both tracks pointed, as perfectly as possible, in a straight line.

hope that helps clarify when we're talking about "aligning"

Hans

 

[Gregor]

While the principle of the wedgelock is great when your want to apply pressure along a seam (or a card in a holder) it might fall short when it comes to aligning the t-slots at the seam between two FS rails. This would need some testing.

But to have a rail connector operate on the sides of the t-slots (instead of top and bottom, as all current solutions do) would IMHO be a good idea to follow as the sides of the slot have to be parallel and in one line to get a straight cut.

A slight deviation in the vertical direction would worst case hinder movement of the saw (it might catch on the ledge) if there would be an offset at the rails seam, but that shouldn't happen when the rails lie on a flat surface when being connected and the flexibility of the rail itself should compensate for any slight non-parallelism on the vertical axis...

 

[skids]

good test Neilc...I think the very fact the rails move is what makes these TSO connectors more valuable..Every time you move them easier to square them back up with out additional straight edges.

 

[Klemm]

The latest generation of the GRC-12 Connector (REV C)
began shipping from TSO April 29, 2019. A refined connector-body profile is accompanied by the most noticeable change – custom set screws -reflecting customer suggestions since the release of the original configuration:

A large “flat-foot” Set Screw which retracts into the counterbored Connector body has replaced the original blunt tip set screw. No more divits in guide rail t-slots. More specifics can be seen athttps://tsoproducts.com/tso-products-guide-rail-squares/grc-12-self-aligning-guide-rail-connectors/

And here’s a tip for new users:
When first using the Connector set, the retracted Set Screws need to be loosened by turning the 3mm ball-tipped Allen Hex Driver clockwise. When packaged, these set screws were tightened to keep them from vibrating out during shipment. Tightened a bit too much, it turns out. This misled some customers thinking there is something wrong because of the force required to break them loose.
The nature of a ball driver means there is intentional play between the Driver and the hex-socket  compared to using a straight Driver or L-wrench. We are now retracting the Set Screws only lightly into the Connector body

Hans
PS: a picture I tried to attach to this post earlier seems to have caused an upload problem -I'll try the picture again separately

 

[Klemm]

one more try to upload the GRC-12 REV C picture . . .
Hans

 

[Bob D.]

The flat heads on the screws will not bite into the rail, which may be both good and bad. Good as it does not damage or deface the rail (inside the alignment grooves), and bad because they will not have the same 'grab' as a cup point set screw does. Once you snug the stock set screws down they are less likely to slip I would think. I wonder if adding a cross hatch pattern to the flat face of the TSO screws would be enough to eliminate the slip. Of course that would mean it might Mar the surface of the rail inside the grooves but it would be less damage than done by the stock Festool set screws I think.

I just received mine yesterday but haven't even opened the box, busy with yard work yesterday. Maybe later today I will get to check them out.

 

[Klemm]

[member=60461]Bob D.[/member] – thank you for giving me the opportunity to explain the engineering decision behind the GRC-12 a little bit more:
To begin with – the job of any connector is to keep the rails from shifting horizontally. There is no appreciable lateral force to pull the guide rails apart.

Traditional guide rail connectors rely on friction between the connector body and screws (or Makita flat plate). To retain guide rails in alignment these connectors need to be kept from sliding horizontally Left/Right.

The GRC-12 Connectors oppose mis-aligning horizontal guide rail forces by locking the Connector body into the opening of the guide rail t-slot. It accomplishes this by using a jack screw effect from what used to be a set screw shape. Our special “Flat Foot” Screws need only to eliminate vertical clearance when snugged up. The actual “holding” is done by the inability of the interlocking shapes of the GRC-12 and the guide rail t-slot to move laterally while in compression.

And thank you for your purchase, Bob [smile]
Hans

 

[reidbailey]

I received my connectors and accompanying ball Allen wrench this week. It appears that the Allen wrench is too small for the screws. I know with a ball head there will be play but this has no purchase to turn a screw.  I emailed a video to support earlier this week but have yet to hear back.

I also know I can use a different sized Allen wrench but really like the accompanying one sent with the connectors.

Has anyone else experienced this?

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[Koamolly]

I received my connectors and accompanying ball Allen wrench this week. It appears that the Allen wrench is too small for the screws. I know with a ball head there will be play but this has no purchase to turn a screw.  I emailed a video to support earlier this week but have yet to hear back.

I also know I can use a different sized Allen wrench but really like the accompanying one sent with the connectors.

Has anyone else experienced this?

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Yes.  I ordered two sets of connectors.  One set the Allen wrench was too small, one set it was the correct size.  Was going to send an email with photos.

 

[TSO_Products]

I received my connectors and accompanying ball Allen wrench this week. It appears that the Allen wrench is too small for the screws. I know with a ball head there will be play but this has no purchase to turn a screw.  I emailed a video to support earlier this week but have yet to hear back.

I also know I can use a different sized Allen wrench but really like the accompanying one sent with the connectors.
Has anyone else experienced this?

[member=60461]Bob D.[/member] - [member=67723]reidbailey[/member] – and other GRC-12 purchasers

Loose fit of the Eklind 3mm Allen Ball Driver into Special Foot set screw:
we are aware of the issue and will work with the Eklind to see what solution we can come up with quickly. We found that the Screw Socket and Ball Driver dimensions appear to be running at their opposite tolerance limits creating excessive clearance.

The first production lot of the new GRC-12 (REV C) was packaged with the Special Screws retracted into the body and tightened (too much) to keep them from vibrating loose in shipping. So to get started after unpacking a hard right hand twist on the driver or L-wrench is required the first time. Actually an L-wrench makes breaking it loose easier.

If you encounter any difficulties, email to info@tsoproducts.com – our ZENdesk customer service system creates a ticket and a record for us to respond to without risk of falling through the cracks at our end.

Our apology for this inconvenience.
Hans and Eric 

 

[Cheese]

Also look at the Eklind handle top/end there should be a 3 engraved on the end.

 

[Bob D.]

Thanks, I emailed you earlier today. I also found the ball to be undersize and the shaft slightly oversize when compared to my Elkind 3mm L wrench. Also, the hex in the screws seems slightly oversize. Tough to take an inside measure using a 6 inch micrometer but I came up with 3.14mm. I don't know what the tolerance is for a socket head screw but this seems high. Still the supplied wrench is off and that's not TSO's fault, they didn't manufacture them.

I thought when I opened the box; "wow, how about that, TSO sent along a made in USA hex driver from Elkind". One minute later my joy was neutralized as the ball spun around inside the hex. I did find that the T15 Torx driver on my Festool Toolie multi function tool fits snugly as does a standard 3mm hex wrench.

 

[Bob D.]

Also look at the Eklind handle top/end there should be a 3 engraved on the end.

Yes, mine has the number 3. The ball is so small I was thinking maybe it was a 2.5mm with a 3mm handle by mistake.

 

[Koamolly]

Both mine say 3 on handle.

 

[Klemm]

Also look at the Eklind handle top/end there should be a 3 engraved on the end.

Yes, mine has the number 3. The ball is so small I was thinking maybe it was a 2.5mm with a 3mm handle by mistake.

Bob and [member=66704]Koamolly[/member]: can you put a caliper on the ballends and email us the results?

getting data will help nail down the cause and be sure to get the correct Ball Driver replacements.\

Hans

 

[Bob D.]

I sent an email earlier today Hans with those measurements. The ball is 2.50mm and the shaft is 3.15mm, and when I measured my Elkind 3mm L wrench it was dead on 3mm. Also, the hex in the screws are slightly over 3mm, I checked a few of them and they are 3.12 to 3.15mm best I can measure but not easy to get the inside jaws of the mic in there.

I sent you a link to a video in my public folder on OneDrive too.

 

[reidbailey]

Thanks, I emailed you earlier today. I also found the ball to be undersize and the shaft slightly oversize when compared to my Elkind 3mm L wrench. Also, the hex in the screws seems slightly oversize. Tough to take an inside measure using a 6 inch micrometer but I came up with 3.14mm. I don't know what the tolerance is for a socket head screw but this seems high. Still the supplied wrench is off and that's not TSO's fault, they didn't manufacture them.

I thought when I opened the box; "wow, how about that, TSO sent along a made in USA hex driver from Elkind". One minute later my joy was neutralized as the ball spun around inside the hex. I did find that the T15 Torx driver on my Festool Toolie multi function tool fits snugly as does a standard 3mm hex wrench.

I had a similar experience.

Hans & Eric - I did email my issue earlier this week. Twice actually. Perhaps it’s still waiting to be acknowledged but I posted here in hopes of validation that I was either losing my mind or if someone else has experienced the same thing.

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