Lets see what YOU would charge to make this unit.......

[waynelang2001]

Hi Guys,

I've started my next project and from what I've heard so far I'm pretty much doing my work for free at the prices i charge [tongue]. I've added a rendering of the latest project, so lets see what you guys would charge for it.

It measures 2.7 meters wide and 2.5 meters tall. Let the Pricing begin !! [2cents]

 

[fortrout]

Wayne,
  It really does not matter what someone else would charge . You have built a very nice unit, which should make both you and your client happy. Pricing is a regional thing , pricing in New York is not the same as in Little Rock, Arkansas or South Africa. The market controls price, know your cost to build and the local market. Enjoy the woodworking and don't let the thought that you sold it to cheaply ruin the experience.

 

[mouppe]

Man, your renderings are amazing. Can you tell us your estimate for the material and how many hours you will need?

Also, I think it would help the proportions of such a large unit if you graduated the shelf heights a little so that the upper ones were smaller than the lower ones, particularly as you have the L-shaped space in the middle.

Richard.

 

[waynelang2001]

Wayne,
  It really does not matter what someone else would charge . You have built a very nice unit, which should make both you and your client happy. Pricing is a regional thing , pricing in New York is not the same as in Little Rock, Arkansas or South Africa. The market controls price, know your cost to build and the local market. Enjoy the woodworking and don't let the thought that you sold it to cheaply ruin the experience.

Thanks for the comment but i actually have not built the unit yet  [doh]...this is only a rendering i did on the PC. Im not worried about my pricing i was just interested to see what the markets around the world would have to charge in order to make this job worth while for them.

 

[waynelang2001]

Man, your renderings are amazing. Can you tell us your estimate for the material and how many hours you will need?

Also, I think it would help the proportions of such a large unit if you graduated the shelf heights a little so that the upper ones were smaller than the lower ones, particularly as you have the L-shaped space in the middle.

Richard.

Hi Richard,

I estimated materials to be about R8000, not sure on the hours but im pushing to have it finished within to 2 weeks, or 12 days.

The shelving is all adjustable so the client can pick and choose how she wants them.

 

[mouppe]

R8000 is about $1100, plus 2 weeks work, would you say $4000?

 

[nickao]

"It really does not matter what someone else would charge ".

That is NOT how a business man should look at it ever! You need to be at the high end of your competition or you are leaving money on the table!

The trick is to get the MOST money possible, period. There is only one point of a business, its not to make the best thing or be happy, etc, etc, it is to make money and I mean profit.

You need to make the most money possible where you can actually sell the work. If the person pays that amount they are happy or they simply would buy elsewhere.

I would say 4000.00 to 6000.00 would well cover regional differences. If the price is not yet figured and given to the client I would quote a price of 5400.00 to 6000.00 initially and then feel out the client. If they balk then tell them you will re-work some of the construction techniques and see if you can do better and then come in at 4400.00 to 5000.00.

If you want to quote a rock solid price not allowing for negotiation I would come in at no lower than 4400.00 and stick to your guns. Remember, your quality is the best and you care about your product, you get what you pay for. You make the item locally by hand and are proud of every item you make.

Just imagine getting the 6000.00 without the client even blinking, then think about man I almost charged 4000.00! Be confident, almost every craftsman I know under values their work because they do not want to rip someone off. It is NOT ripping anyone off, your work is a great value. I under priced my work for years and I tell you the more you charge and get the less complaints you will get too. It is the people looking to pay nothing that actually complain the most about nothing.

 

[Mr. Jeff Smith]

"The trick is to get the MOST money possible, period. There is only one point of a business, its not to make the best thing or be happy, etc, etc, it is to make money and I mean profit.

I understand your point, but that view takes an extremely limited view of what a business can be and also ignores the long term view.

To Wayne, I'd price that unit around $4500 in my area.  Good luck.

 

[waynelang2001]

Very interesting views coming through, and i think i might take alot away from this topic. I often do feel like i do not want to " rip off " the client but every time i give a quote and they take it without a second thought i do find myself saying MAN!! I could have charge a bit more and they would still pay it. I reckon I have been under valuing my work then ???

Oh and on what i have quoted for this job it comes to $2500 give or take a dollar or two.

 

[Brice Burrell]

...Oh and on what i have quoted for this job it comes to $2500 give or take a dollar or two.

Wait, you're say 12 days of your time is only worth $1400?

 

[tigger]

Hi Wayne

I have done a costing on the unit and for us here in SA, I think your price is "saleable" but I would charge around R 22 500.00. Having seen your work, I gotta tell you that you could probably get around R 25 000.00. I used to charge industry standard for my kitchens and odd one-off builds. About two years ago I literally doubled my prices and I have yet to stand still. Okay, I only work on referals but the precedent is there so my next prosepective client already knows my workmanship.
As I believe you're a notch higher than myself, I think you will amaze yourself at what a client is prepared to pay for a quality custom built piece of furniture. If you look at the market for the first two quarters of this year, in Cape Town, the only guys that are busy, are those that truly CHARGE for their work. I, personally would be too embarrased to charge what they do, but these guys are always busy. Pisses me off when I see them in their new vans and with more Festool than I would know what to do with. But I couldn't live with myself if I did the same.
The guys that do really econo stuff are dead quiet.
Just try it and see what your client says.

Good luck with this. PM me if you want to know how I tested the waters on my new pricing.

 

[nickao]

tigger I had a similar experience I more than doubled my prices in 06 and actually sell more now than I did then and that is factoring the economy as well.

"I understand your point, but that view takes an extremely limited view of what a business can be and also ignores the long term view".

I will never understand that statement, I guess . To me, my way of thinking it is the only way to keep the business viable so that it can ever be all it can be. It is the long term view.

The company I had where I was really the cheapest around went belly up. I had the best quality, the best workers, the guys were happy and making more than me. Great news, except as a business it was done for because I was too nice and really thought that the altruistic views I had at the time to make a great company where happiness was the point really had merit. I found out the hard way business is business.

I am very opened minded and would love to hear your point about "extremely limited view of what a business can be". To me a business is making money and the entire point, everything else is "extra goodness" as my 8 year old would say.

I would  like to hear your comments NOT from a  a corporations point of view that may have a duty to use is excessive profits to help the community, but from a small businessman's standpoint that has to succeed to pay for his own family's bills as well all his employees bills.

I know that the business is much more fun when I am making a good profit. I love what I do and am very lucky I have a wife that allows me to do it, but when the time comes that I do not make money its over and I may be in a job I  hate.

Possibly this can start a thread in what a person personally thinks a business could be. I say it is ALL about making money(Festools help that greatly!) or forget it. None of the other stuff that comes along with a company to make it  "all it can be" can come about without making great money. Somone in the company has to watch the numbers and be a shark.  

 

[waynelang2001]

Hi Wayne

I have done a costing on the unit and for us here in SA, I think your price is "saleable" but I would charge around R 22 500.00. Having seen your work, I gotta tell you that you could probably get around R 25 000.00. I used to charge industry standard for my kitchens and odd one-off builds. About two years ago I literally doubled my prices and I have yet to stand still. Okay, I only work on referals but the precedent is there so my next prosepective client already knows my workmanship.
As I believe you're a notch higher than myself, I think you will amaze yourself at what a client is prepared to pay for a quality custom built piece of furniture. If you look at the market for the first two quarters of this year, in Cape Town, the only guys that are busy, are those that truly CHARGE for their work. I, personally would be too embarrased to charge what they do, but these guys are always busy. Pisses me off when I see them in their new vans and with more Festool than I would know what to do with. But I couldn't live with myself if I did the same.
The guys that do really econo stuff are dead quiet.
Just try it and see what your client says.

Good luck with this. PM me if you want to know how I tested the waters on my new pricing.

Ok so its good to see my pricing for SA isnt to off, but i think your right i could get away with charging 25k. All my work since I started on my own has come via word of mouth. Im hoping to get a website going some time this year but i wonder if i would be able to keep up, but i guess thats a good place to be in. I think by putting my pricing up it would also allow me to take just that little bit of extra time to do the perfect job and really make the client feel like there getting more then they paid for.

 

[waynelang2001]

...Oh and on what i have quoted for this job it comes to $2500 give or take a dollar or two.

Wait, you're say 12 days of your time is only worth $1400?

Half a months work and i make up for more then my monthly salary needs..........so yes I'm ok with that. But from what I've been reading in this post that is going to change very soon.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I look at it this way, I can work my  off all day everyday just to make wages, or I can charge more money, work less and make more money.

I know that people think the economy is in the crapper but, I can tell you this, there are still people out there that will spend good money on whatever they want.  Those are my kind of people.  Those people may be hard to find if you keep working for the bottom half of the consumers.

I almost went broke with this mentality this spring but, when I finally popped some work, I stacked the benny's back up in a hurry.

I have 2 projects going on now that the home owners don't care what it costs, they just know what they want and will not settle for less.

They are out there, go find them.

 

[cje]

I was in consultancy previously.

After 1 or 2 years of many hours for low rates I doubled the rates. Within another 2 years I added another 50%.
The result: boring gigs stayed away, only serious challenging gigs remained popping up. Actually, I got more requests than I was able to/wanted to accept, so I became very picky in what to accept and what not. And guess what, for 'emergency' calls (show up within 24 hours) they were happy to pay twice the meanwhile already steep rate.
To achieve all this I had worked carefully at my reputation of someone who was able 'to deliver'.

Good luck, CJ'60

 

[tigger]

Ok so its good to see my pricing for SA isnt to off, but i think your right i could get away with charging 25k. All my work since I started on my own has come via word of mouth. Im hoping to get a website going some time this year but i wonder if i would be able to keep up, but i guess thats a good place to be in. I think by putting my pricing up it would also allow me to take just that little bit of extra time to do the perfect job and really make the client feel like there getting more then they paid for.

This little bit of info is what really gets me the bizz. I like to include things they never expected. I don't always elaborate on everything I'm putting into the job. It makes for a nice surprise when I hand over the work.

"Whats that ?" "oh, that's your waste disposal unit! It comes standard with my kitchens. Didn't I tell you?"

Man, I love the look on their faces.

"...and this switch is for the back-lights in your glass door cabinets and when you open your grocery unit, there is a light that comes on automatically!"  [jawdrop] "Have you seen that your dustbin opens automatically when you approach it?"

I could write a book on the client reactions to some of these "extra gadgets"  Aah, the gift of giving. Makes the job a little more fun.

 

[Spike]

Not knowing how you would go about constructing this piece nor the materials i.e. drawer slides, type of hardware, finish, sheet good type etc... I see my price delivered of about $7800-8200. My price would be based on Domino construction, Blumotion slides, 3/4" Columbia Forest ply, solid wood where applicable, finished back, ML Campbell Magna Max laq. Would take me about 15-18 days to build and deliver.

 

[-woodsman-]

I agree with the consensus here. Waynelang2001 you are a talented fellow and should be charging more of a premium for your work.  And from what I can see your pretty quick as well for a one mann opp.  I do not own my own company yet. I have some grate clients but not enough to warrant leaving the steady paycheck I get every week.  Because I have a day job my time for side work is very precious.  I only take on work I find interesting.  I do charge a little under the comparable high end one off guys in my area.  Not much but a little.  I do this for two reasons.  1st so I can offer hand made items to clients who feel personally invested in me and the product at a reasonable rate. 2nd Im always learning and taking on things maybe a little above me.  Just because I haven't done it before dose not mean that I cant.  But I don't feel right charging the same as somebody who dose that one particular thing day in and day out.  they will win hands down foe lead time.  I base all my prices of off a hourly rate.  This is also nearly twice what it was 2-3 years ago.  I'd like to think I am also twice the carpenter I was then.  We all love what we do and the fun jobs tend to be the expensive ones.  There is nothing worse than investing so much of yourself into a project and at the end find that you are the one who is paying for it.  Every job is a learning experience, not just the woodworking but estimating and dealing with clients as well.  Lastly(Sometimes I can drag things out longer that necessary so bear with me[dead horse]) I don't mark up my materials.  I know a grate mill shop that the company I work for uses and he gives me a good deal.  I always pass this on to my clients.  I do not have a shop, nor a vehicle for transporting large amounts of stock.  They pay for deliveries and I can spend more time working.  The open billing is somthing that clients love, I want them to trust me and to feal at ease when they see my hourly rate.  I want to have a connection with them and know that they understand why my product/skillset is worth what it is.

Sometimes.....sometimes....I can't help take on a project at a loss because its soo cool.

Keep up the good work and continuing  to make me feel like a snail with you build times. [thumbs up]

 

[waynelang2001]

I agree with the consensus here. Waynelang2001 you are a talented fellow and should be charging more of a premium for your work.  And from what I can see your pretty quick as well for a one mann opp.  I do not own my own company yet. I have some grate clients but not enough to warrant leaving the steady paycheck I get every week.  Because I have a day job my time for side work is very precious.  I only take on work I find interesting.  I do charge a little under the comparable high end one off guys in my area.  Not much but a little.  I do this for two reasons.  1st so I can offer hand made items to clients who feel personally invested in me and the product at a reasonable rate. 2nd Im always learning and taking on things maybe a little above me.  Just because I haven't done it before dose not mean that I cant.  But I don't feel right charging the same as somebody who dose that one particular thing day in and day out.  they will win hands down foe lead time.  I base all my prices of off a hourly rate.  This is also nearly twice what it was 2-3 years ago.  I'd like to think I am also twice the carpenter I was then.  We all love what we do and the fun jobs tend to be the expensive ones.  There is nothing worse than investing so much of yourself into a project and at the end find that you are the one who is paying for it.  Every job is a learning experience, not just the woodworking but estimating and dealing with clients as well.  Lastly(Sometimes I can drag things out longer that necessary so bear with me[dead horse]) I don't mark up my materials.  I know a grate mill shop that the company I work for uses and he gives me a good deal.  I always pass this on to my clients.  I do not have a shop, nor a vehicle for transporting large amounts of stock.  They pay for deliveries and I can spend more time working.  The open billing is somthing that clients love, I want them to trust me and to feal at ease when they see my hourly rate.  I want to have a connection with them and know that they understand why my product/skillset is worth what it is.

Sometimes.....sometimes....I can't help take on a project at a loss because its soo cool.

Keep up the good work and continuing  to make me feel like a snail with you build times. [thumbs up]

Thanks woodsman, i do this for a living so ofcourse I will be done with a job alot faster then you who has another full time job. I actually dont have transport either even though ive been working for myself about 3 years now............i had to sell my brand new honda just to get my workshop up and running. Im hoping to get a bakkie.........um truck to those outside of South Africa, later this year. Like you i try to build a good relationship with a client. Every 5 days or so i will drop them a email to let them know how things are going, and even send them some photos of progress to put there mind at rest. Im still trying to figure out how to get to a hourly rate. Does anyone have some ideas on the best way to go about this ????