Lets see what YOU would charge to make this unit.......

[jmbfestool]

I have been lucky I think with some jobs.

I under priced a kitchen took bit longer than it should but I priced it so my fault. When the job was done the client came up to me and said you have under priced your self havent you. I was like yip [unsure] but I priced the job so cant do anything about it. Well he gave me the money and he said have given you a extra 20% more.

My mate priced this job and underpriced it I told him he under-priced it soon as I got on the job told him he was a dickhead lol well I said ill help you out if you help me out on a job to make up for it.

Any way when the job was finished my mate told the client he underpriced the client said how much more do you want my mate said well double the price client said no problem and paid up.

Another job I had to make a radiator cover and hang two doors. I told him how much it was 2 weeks later he gave me the money said sorry for taking so long to get you the money and gave me a  15% more.

JMB

 

[woodguy7]

2 weeks to get paid, jeez i wish it was like that here.  I give 30 days credit & most take it & some take more.

I never over price just to be bartered down.  My price is my price.  If they say it is a bit expensive then i smile, say thank you for asking me to quote for the job & leave.  I never haggle over price.  My first price is the amount i want & i don't like to play games.  Just the way i do it & it works for me.

Woodguy

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I just don't think a lot of people take into consideration all the costs of doing business.

I also know 10 years ago I worked for peanuts but, thought I was doing good because I was soooo busy.

I was so busy because I was the one being taken advantage of by the customer.

You have to find your sweet spot and then tweak from there.

I will not negotiate a price, if it is too much then we have to change the scope of work, not just take the hit on my end.

Being a poor carpenter is no fun, I would rather be a poor employee then have to deal with all the bs that comes from being self employed.

I am in business to make money, not just pay the bills.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

2 weeks to get paid, jeez i wish it was like that here.  I give 30 days credit & most take it & some take more.

I never over price just to be bartered down.  My price is my price.  If they say it is a bit expensive then i smile, say thank you for asking me to quote for the job & leave.  I never haggle over price.  My first price is the amount i want & i don't like to play games.  Just the way i do it & it works for me.

Woodguy

My final payments from people are usually only about 5-10% of the total cost of the project.

I also have in my contract that if payment is not received in full within 10 days of satisfactory completion, my workmanship guarantee is null and void.
You don't pay me, I don't fix something that breaks later.

I am not a door mat for people to walk all over, when it is my job I am in charge.  When you let the homeowner get the upper hand you are in for a world of hurt.

 

[Mr. Jeff Smith]

Charging as much as possible should be a value to the consumer and give a good profit. Anything less than as much as you can get you left money on the table.

Charging as much as humanly possible and NOT getting the job is where it is wrong. The point is to charge as much as you can while making sales. No one pays something they feel is to much. They move on.

That is not what the market research lead Toyota, Honda and eventually Saturn to conclude.  They found that many people, woman in particular, will commit to purchasing a vehicle even though they feel it costs to much.  This is a result of the personal relationship that is formed in the sales process which has people commit to buying to satisfy the other party despite their belief its overpriced.

That sounds all fine and good if you are a cars salesman, but the reality is those same people are likely to tell others they overpaid and to chose a different car manufacturer in the future to try to avoid overpaying.  You can see how this can easy lead to reduction in net profit overtime.  The concept that someone won't pay more than they feel something is worth is economics 101 I agree, but its not reality.

By the way, Toyota, Honda and Saturn all had great success is achieving loyal customers (as reported by the owners themselves) and word of mouth marketing in their early years by having simple displayed prices and no haggling policy; clearly demonstrating the value of taking a longer term relationship perspective with customers.

 

[Mr. Jeff Smith]

Hi Wayne, just curious what price did you settle on?

 

[waynelang2001]

Hi Wayne, just curious what price did you settle on?

I had already giving a quote before opening this thread, I charged R18 800.00. I think thats about $2700 US.

 

[woodguy7]

1,643.57 British pounds sterling

Sorry Wayne, seems to cheap to me.  Hope you do ok out of it though, all the best.

Woodguy.

 

[Mr. Jeff Smith]

Hi Wayne, just curious what price did you settle on?

I had already giving a quote before opening this thread, I charged R18 800.00. I think thats about $2700 US.

Got it, see that on the previous page now.  I thought you were still debating on final price.  Good luck with the project!

 

[CNC Paul]

You end up with an annual figure, divide that by 260 (52 weeks @ 5 days) then divide that by 8 (Hours) and there is an hourly rate that you need to run your business.

Guy    

Guy,

Sorry , but I think you are way off. No one is productive 2080 hours per annum, you have not taken out holidays, estimating, meeting clients, and all those jobs it takes to run a business. I think it would be closer to 1600 hours.

I think Wayne's unit would be around 3000GBP

 

[waynelang2001]

Ive worked out a hourly rate now for my future jobs, It is not as high as most of the other members would charge but i think its fair for my time, I just cant justify having a hourly rate that makes me feel like I'm ripping off my clients. All my work has been through word of mouth and over charging might hurt that setup.

Ive come up with a hourly rate of R200.00 ( US$24.50----------17.34 British pounds ). It might change in the future, but I will need to see how well this price goes down with clients.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            [dead horse]

 

[Mac]

I wish you all the success you deserve with this Wayne. I really respect your approach to your clients as well as your work  and believe it'll pay dividends for you in the future.
[big grin]

Rick

 

[nickao]

"feel like I'm ripping off my clients"

That is key for each person.

It  can be a confidence thing (your work may be worth more than you actually think). Or you may be spot on.

Charging as much as you can get is not ripping people off though. And most of these comments are for businesses, someone that gets taxed and 1099 sent to them  for their work. Which means the price needs to be 1/3 higher than someone else not doing that just to make the same money.

25.00 may sound like a lot and may be fine if you are an employee where taxes are taken out. Remember that 25.00 cost the employer at least 45.00 so 45.00 is what the single woodworking businessman needs to charge just to get the 25.00 an hour. A lot of workers just don't get that and think man 45.00 an hour you ripping them off. If I charge 25.00 an hour I am at 15.00 and that does not include overhead, just Ins and Tax. No gas to get there no parking fee, no tool maintenance, etc. So 25.00 an hour as a business may get me 10.00. I may as well to to the Menards for 12.50 an hour without the headache of a business. Of course working cash 25.00 an hour is a totally different story.

All that being said now I only sell consigned pieces at a single non negotiable price. I am afraid to work it out backwards and find out my hourly rate.  

 

[jmbfestool]

In England when you say your on a wage  example 15 GBP an hour which is what carpenters are on average on the books its before tax. So when your saying 25 an hour I was thinking that was before tax.

No one in the UK says their wages with tax deducted.

but your saying it after tax so to me the wages are higher than I though.

JMB

 

[-woodsman-]

Wayne please post some pics of the new project and maybe your shop as well.  How long does one of your renderings take?  If you hadn't said it was one I would have thought it was real. 

 

[nickao]

In England when you say your on a wage  example 15 GBP an hour which is what carpenters are on average on the books its before tax. So when your saying 25 an hour I was thinking that was before tax.

No one in the UK says their wages with tax deducted.

but your saying it after tax so to me the wages are higher than I though.

JMB

I think you misunderstand.  A standard carpenter makes about 25.00 an hour before his taxes are pulled if he is working for someone else's business. That business than has to match the employees taxes and pay the workers comp and liability Ins which can bring the employers cost for that 25.00 an hour employee 45.00. Meaning if I pay a guy 25.00 it cost me as the owner 45.00 an hour for this worker because of workers comp, liability and matching his taxes.

Now if I start a company and work on my own I can't pay myself just the 25.00 an hour because I as the business owner now have to pay for my own workers comp and liability ins insurance as well  as the tax that is taken out of the 25.00 wage.

This is just in general. There are some ways around this as some times as the single worker you can wave your workers comp legally, but more and more you can't get jobs if you do that. And there are ways for a business owner to write things off their taxes,etc, but in general a carpenter working as his own company has to charge more than what a similar carpenter working for someone else makes,  just to make the same amount of money.

Again if someone is not carrying the liability ins, paying workers comp, or paying self employment tax, which is really working for cash then by all means they can charge the same as what a carpenter makes working for someone else. It's not legal, though I have done loads of "side" jobs myself in the day.

 

[woodguy7]

The general rule of thumb here is that if i pay a joiner 10 GBP then i have to charge him out at 20 GBP minimum because of all the expense's, holiday pay ect ect.

Woodguy.

 

[nickao]

Yes, something  like that exactly is my point., And I think  a lot of guys starting out charge to little because they just do not get how expensive it can get. I made that mistake for years really, thinking that if I charge to much I was ripping people off because my friend only made 20.00 an hour or whatever, not really getting he was making a lot more than that because the employer covers a lot of costs taken for granted by every employee.

It is rough in the trades because the insurance has gotten out of control, but we can get someone killed, an office worker can't, that's why their workers comp and liability is probably 10 time less than a self employed carpenter. Some of  the villages even started requiring 100,000 bonds if I was to cut into anyone's home, which was another 150.00 expense.

I think all this needs to be taken into consideration for the question of "what would I charge for this".

 

[Jay Knoll]

Pricing is a funny thing..... when times were good here in FL I heard from a cabinet shop owner where I pick up odds and ends (I'm just an homeowner doing stuff for myself, no side jobs) that guys who were sticking up there noses over a kitchen install job that was $50,000 were happy as clams to get a $10,000 job this year.

I had a long time relationship with a very good electrician.  He did jobs in our various residences for over 10 years,  I never asked for a quote, never complained about his bills, his work was excellent and he "gave me a discount" (don't know if that was really true) because I did the clean up after him. Most of the time the work was done on his schedule, so my flexibility allowed him to work on bigger jobs and use my projects as "fill in"  Nevertheless I was a happy customer and quick to give him a referral to my friends.  Some of them said they thought he was expensive, I always thought I was getting good value; he had great design sense and really knew how to work a circuit though a house without tearing the whole place up.

Then came the last job.  he installed some high intensity lights over our sink.  Over the years we had some problems with them, sockets going bad, transformers burning out.  I'd call him, he'd fix it I'd pay him and he'd go on his way.
  That was until last year when I called him for another occurrence of the ongoing problem.  "I can't make any money fixing that he said.  I didn't ask you to work for free I replied.  He still refused.  I feel like I helped him start out when he was small and hungry and that constant support was worth something.  But he'll never get another referral from me, nor another call.  I've found other guys that are equally as good and cheaper to boot!

Do you want to make $80,000 a year?  And cover your overhead?  You can do the math and figure out your required hourly rate.  I doubt you'll be able to make that installing closet shelving but certainly could with the quality of work I've seen here.
Doing great work that meets your customer's expectations on time and within the bid will get you what you want, and create a bunch of satisfied customers to boot.

 

[waynelang2001]

Wayne please post some pics of the new project and maybe your shop as well.  How long does one of your renderings take?  If you hadn't said it was one I would have thought it was real. 

Hi Woodsman,

When im done with the installation i will post pics of progress and the final product in a new thread. That rendering took about 6 hours to do.