Loctite 5-minute epoxy—a cautionary note

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Packard

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I bought a package of Loctite 5-minute Epoxy Adhesive.

The adhesive worked fine.  The problem with it is that it comes with two nozzles that automatically swirl the epoxy together in exacting amounts.  It mixes much like vanilla and chocolate soft ice cream does.

The problem is, you get only two drinks from the well.  In my case, I used so little in the first application and the second project was going to require even less.  So it would cost 4.50 per use. 

Instead, I tried squeezing out a large glob and mixing it manually.  The resulting glob never cured. 

So while the self-mixing is very convenient, it can be very expensive to use.  You cannot reuse the nozzles as the adhesive cures inside. 

So now I am going to buy a package that features manually mixing the adhesive and hardener to re-glue the small project.  I will use the remaining nozzle when I have a larger project to glue. 

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It can't be used more than twice because they only give you two tips, or because even after the second use, the plunge side starts to mix and harden?

If it's a matter of a lack of tips, one would think that the good folks at Henkel Adhesives could just sell spare tips, but I don't know how the shareholders would feel about that.

If it's endemic to the product design that even after two tips the applicator starts to back-mix and cure, they should fix that as well.
 
[member=75217]squall_line[/member] it's about the tips, more accurately, how many you have and how much adhesive you use at any one time.
The adhesive we use for solid surface material (Corian) works exactly the same way. Using a very small amount is rather wasteful, as it takes quite a bit to fill the mixing tube itself, but that's the way it is.
Of course the tips are available separately for it. We get them in bags of 100. The tube is much larger too, (500ml) and can be used many times. It does have an expiration date, but its well over a year.
If you leave the tip on the cartridge, it can harden back into the rest of the tubes. They should be removed and plugged with the original cap. You can continue to use it until it's empty, if you have enough tips.

That small retail package, they probably don't care. They assume you'll use it once and be done with it. It's very similar to "super glue". It comes in tiny packages because it will be hardened in the bottle before you get to use it again, but for commercial applications, it is available in much larger containers too.
 
I followed the directions and removed the tip after using and sealed it with the supplied cap.

My point was that this system probably does not suit most consumer applications. 

If you think you will use all the adhesive in one or two instances, then it is very handy.  Otherwise, a 2-tube arrangement with hardener mixed externally will be more economical.
 
Usually 6 month shelf life once open so it's kind of a of moot point for the 'consumer' audience.  Bottles of Quickcure 5 will set you back about 3X than those mixer tubes.  That'd only make sense if your job is small batching over the 6 months.  If you're only using it at most 3 times in 6 months, just get the tubes.

 
I've used quite a lot of 20min epoxy in packs just like bought from my local Lidl supermarket.
Squeeze the whole pack out and mix it up, it takes a few HOURS(!) to set (and it's supposed to be 20min epoxy).

Regards
Bob
 
For woodworking, the slower setting glues are supposed to offer greater adhesion.

The theory goes like this:  The slower setting allows the epoxy to flow into and penetrate the pores of the wood (or wood product). That supposedly creates better adhesion. I have never seen any data on it though.

As for cure time, it seems they must measure it differently nowadays. I used to be able to find 30 minute epoxy.  The longest cure time I could find recently was five minute stuff.  But the 5 minute stuff cautions that it does not reach full strength for 24 hours.  So, I suspect some different standard is being used for cure times lately.
 
Packages will generally list the tensile strength of the cured glue. Slower cure time will equate to higher tensile strength as the chemical reaction between he resin and catalyst (hardener) will be more optimal achieving the higher strength.  This would apply to porous and non porous surfaces.

Personally I've never cared for the mixing type nozzles and much prefer mixing my batch with an awl on card stock. 

Side note, if you want a less viscous consistency while working, heating the mixed glue with a heat gun will make it more runny and allow it to penetrate small gaps.  Heat will reduce the open time so you need to work quickly. I like to spread the glue as best I can then heat after it's on my surface.
 
Vtshopdog said:
Packages will generally list the tensile strength of the cured glue. Slower cure time will equate to higher tensile strength as the chemical reaction between he resin and catalyst (hardener) will be more optimal achieving the higher strength.  This would apply to porous and non porous surfaces.

Personally I've never cared for the mixing type nozzles and much prefer mixing my batch with an awl on card stock. 

Side note, if you want a less viscous consistency while working, heating the mixed glue with a heat gun will make it more runny and allow it to penetrate small gaps.  Heat will reduce the open time so you need to work quickly. I like to spread the glue as best I can then heat after it's on my surface.
Click to expand...

Interesting. 

My application was to adhere a 1/2” diameter fiberglass rod in a 1/2” through hole drilled in a Bakelite (billiards) ball.  I added several divots to the interior of the hole using a Dremel tool to allow the epoxy to pool. 

I through drilled because a blind hole would have created a hydraulic pressure forcing the shaft out of the hole. 

The glue up required only an amazingly small amount of glue.  Adhesion has proved to be excellent.  But waste in the mixing tube exceeded the amount of adhesive actually used for the glue up.  So this system was poorly chosen by me.  (I chose it because Loctite was a brand I was familiar with.)

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the material or design.  It simply was not well-suited for my application.  I wanted to raise the awareness of that issue.  (And $4.50 per application seemed rather rich.)
 
I gave up on the mixing applicators long ago. I found I ended up throwing away more than I could use before it did what it does best, harden. I've been buying the package of separate 4oz. bottles of resin and hardener and getting much longer life. In fact I have found I get longer shelf life with the JB Weld brand in this packaging than the Loctite brand in the same packaging.
 

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I know it's frustrating to purchase an adhesive and not be able to use the remaining material 2-3 years later, but I've just accepted it as the cost of doing business.

It happens with caulk, epoxy, paint and even drywall mud. How many times have you opened an old tub of USG All Purpose mud and found that most of the remaining stuff in the container is covered with mold? Would you put that stuff on your wall, I wouldn't.

The epoxy costs $5 a tube and if I can only get 2 fixes for that price that's still a great deal. It's certainly better than having to spend $25 for a new item.

I've had this happen with 3M epoxy, Vulcum caulk (expiration date), JB Weld epoxy, GE Silicone, Sika Anchor Fix and Hilti anchor adhesive...and these are some of the best industrial adhesive materials available. I'd dread to think the results obtained with the DAP krap product line.
 
Cheese said:
I know it's frustrating to purchase an adhesive and not be able to use the remaining material 2-3 years later, but I've just accepted it as the cost of doing business.

It happens with caulk, epoxy, paint and even drywall mud. How many times have you opened an old tub of USG All Purpose mud and found that most of the remaining stuff in the container is covered with mold? Would you put that stuff on your wall, I wouldn't.

The epoxy costs $5 a tube and if I can only get 2 fixes for that price that's still a great deal. It's certainly better than having to spend $25 for a new item.
Click to expand...

Sure, if you know that going in, and then you can adjust your purchase as well.  Better to get the smaller tube for the higher per-ounce price than the larger tube with a lower unit cost but overall higher cost that will all go bad before you use it.

This is one of those instances where experience is a harsh teacher.
 
squall_line said:
This is one of those instances where experience is a harsh teacher.
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I love the experience is a harsh teacher statement...that's good.  [thumbs up]

Is anyone else having a slow response on this website...this stuff seems to take forever to load and refresh.
 
I noted the slowness in another thread.  It is getting to the point where I will wait for it to improve before logging on again.
 
Cheese said:
How many times have you opened an old tub of USG All Purpose mud and found that most of the remaining stuff in the container is covered with mold? Would you put that stuff on your wall, I wouldn't.
Click to expand...

Flood the bucket and make sure to get the stuff that's not flooded off the sides.  I tend to go several months between uses since I do room to room.

 
During the depression my grandmother got to the habit of cutting off the moldy parts of cheese and bread and continued to use the rest.

I did not live through that time, and I throw out the moldy cheese and bread.

I would be concerned that the moldy stuff would compromise the rest.

I’ve given up on premixed wallboard mud.  It is invariably too viscous to spread well.  The powder can be mixed to the desired viscosity, keeps better and costs less.

 
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