Looking for advice on first purchase (dust collector and maybe a sander)

[Goz]

Hi everyone!  I've been drooling over Festool for years and am about ready to make my first purchase.  I'm a hobbyist, in the process of renovating/restoring a 1950's house my wife and I own.  The previous owners didn't take great care of it (they either neglected issues or did poor quality repairs) so we are taking on a lot of work to restore it to its former mid-century glory.

My current project (the one prompting the purchase) is repairing, sanding, and painting the window sills.  I tested and there is lead-based paint, so I want to contain as much of that dust as possible.  The Festool dust collectors (with HEPA certification) seem like the best tool for the job.  I'm thinking a MIDI or CT-26.  I've read some comparisons on the forums and am leaning toward the 26 just for future flexibility.  I am also debating whether I should pair this with the Rotex 90 or the Bosch detail sander.  The Rotex seems like an extremely versatile tool, but the price is a bit staggering and I've read that dust collection in delta mode isn't great.  The Bosch is 1/3 the price, decent at dust collection, but not nearly as versatile.  I think a more fair comparison would be to the Festool DX93, but since it's discontinued, that's not really an option.

I also have a number of projects in the queue. 

• Wood garage door needs a sand and re-paint.  My test didn't show LBP, but home testing can be inaccurate if it's encapsulated, so I think it would be safe to assume this also has it.  Don't need to go down to bare wood, so with careful sanding I can probably minimize the risk of lead dust.
• Next summer I will probably be stripping, re-glazing, and painting all the wood windows.  For that I will likely get a SpeedHeater or build a steam box to remove paint with minimal lead dust creation.  But a detail sander will probably come in handy for touchup sanding after paint removal in that project.
• There are a number of built-ins that need to be sanded and painted.  Seems like another place a detail sander would be helpful.
• As we work on each room we are skim coating the drywall (either to fix damage from wallpaper removal or to eliminate texture).  I don't think a Planex is in my future, but it would be nice to be able to sand with less drywall dust. The Rotex 90 would be way too small for that, but I don't know if one of the 150 sanders could work since I would only be using it for that occasionally?
• The kitchen cabinets could use a sand and re-paint.  They are new enough that it may not be LBP, but since it's interior work, good dust collection would be nice.
• There are a bunch of louvered closet doors that need to be repainted.  This work would take place in a basement "shop". 

I know that's kind of all over the place.  But any advice on the model of dust collector, Rotex vs. Bosch, and tools I may be forgetting would be fantastic.  I'll probably end up buying more tools after this first purchase.  My understanding is that the green containers just start multiplying after your first few.

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[semenza]

Hi,

  Welcome to the forum!  [smile]

        I think one thing  to keep in mind with the RO90 delta DC is that many of us Festool users are use to the excellent DC on Festool sanders and when something is not as good , even within the Festool line,  it stands out. I would say the DC with the RO 90 delta is not as good as with the other pad on the 90 but is still quite good. It depends a lot on how much flat surface the pad is resting on. EX - doing the corner of a window sill could still have a good portion of the pad on the surface even though the sanding focus is the corner.

      The RO 90 is certainly going to make much, much faster work of the non-corner areas than the Bosch detail sander.  My guess is that when you start doing the sanding you will find that the RO90 is well worth the money spent.

      Can you post a picture of the windows? The details of profiles and such might help with getting  the best answer.

Seth

 

[nclemmons]

Welcome to the FOG!  Sounds like you have a  good list of projects ahead. 

I'm also a hobby user.  And I've done all of the tasks you are planning to do with my Festools.  I have the RTS 400, the RO90, RO150 and ETS 150/3.

If you are doing window sills, you might consider the DTS or RTS 400.  Both give you a little more surface area and tend to work longer than a detail sander in terms of paper wear.  The RTS is a nice general purpose sander and the DTS adds the cornering capability.  If you are only doing sills or cabinet fronts and face frames, the detail aspect might not be as critical as general flat sanding.

I just sanded and repainted kitchen cabinets using the RTS400 and ETS 150/3 and it worked great. 

RTS - great for flat surfaces, getting into square corners, etc.
RO90 - I use for general sanding, polishing.  Great for detailing a car, or buffing out furniture tops.  Nice for narrower 'straight runs, like siding, or window skirts, particularly with an interface pad to enable more flexible paper control.  I do use the triangle detail attachment on occasion and have an extra set of the replacement pads as they do wear out if you aren't careful in the corners.
RO150 - heavy but a beast and great from rough to finish
150/3 - excellent for panel sanding.  I use this and the RTS for drywall patching.  If you are doing an entire skim coat, you'll want to go bigger than the RO90 as you suggested.  I understand the commitment to the Planex and depending on how much area, the 150/3 is a nice size and weight for quickly sanding drywall.  I tend to use 150 to 180 grit on drywall patches.  The new ETC version of those sanders are supposedly lighter weight and lower center of gravity, but more money.

For dust collection, if you are largely sanding, the Midi could do really well for you.  As you said the CT26 gives you a bit more capacity and flexibility for a boom arm in the future.  Capacity would be more important in routing, planing, or using a saw which will have larger chips.  I have both vacs and actually prefer the Midi for doing work around the house due to lighter weight and easier maneuverability.  It rolls easier and also has a brake to keep it in place if you are near a stairwell and want to make sure it stays on the landing!  Both are HEPA. 

I have not used the Bosch detail sander.  I had a Fein with dust collection attachment for years but never found the dust collection on those tools to be that great, but perhaps Bosch is better.  It would certainly let you conserve some dollars and perhaps get the small DTS or RTS and a Bosch.  Or the 150/3 and the Bosch for more area coverage.

The RO90 is certainly versatile and I find it does a great job.  But if you are thinking to the future and refinishing drywall, I think the RTS or DTS could cover both tasks - or step up to the 150/3 or 125 version. 

 

[ear3]

Depending on the width of the louvers in your future project list, the RO90 (with extended delta pad) may be the only tool that could reach in there to sand it, so that may factor into your decision.

Unfortunately, one has to factor into the already considerable cost of the RO90 a stock of the replacement delta pads if your plan to use it for a lot of corner and edge work.  These can wear out pretty quickly under certain conditions of use.

As for dust collection, I think Seth's point is a good one -- when using the RO90 in delta mode, sometimes the only way to get at something is to engage only the tip or the edge of the pad, with the rest of the pad lifted slightly off the surface, which cuts down on the effectiveness of the dust collection.  But this would be the case for any sander.  The DC capabilities of the RO90 are otherwise excellent.  Plus you get a really powerful stripping sander with the geared mode. 

 

[semenza]

Depending on the width of the louvers in your future project list, the RO90 (with extended delta pad) may be the only tool that could reach in there to sand it, so that may factor into your decision.

Unfortunately, one has to factor into the already considerable cost of the RO90 a stock of the replacement delta pads if your plan to use it for a lot of corner and edge work.  These can wear out pretty quickly under certain conditions of use.

As for dust collection, I think Seth's point is a good one -- when using the RO90 in delta mode, sometimes the only way to get at something is to engage only the tip or the edge of the pad, with the rest of the pad lifted slightly off the surface, which cuts down on the effectiveness of the dust collection.  But this would be the case for any sander.  The DC capabilities of the RO90 are otherwise excellent. Plus you get a really powerful stripping sander with the geared mode.

Exactly. And if there are a lot of windows ...................

Seth

 

[Goz]

Thanks for all the advice so far. 

There are 17 windows, most of them around 30"x48", with a few smaller and a few larger.  A couple detail photos are attached.  I will try to post a photo of the sill with the window open tonight, as it's a bit difficult to make things out in the attached, but this should give you some idea of what I'm dealing with.  Pretty typical wood windows.

Depending on the width of the louvers in your future project list, the RO90 (with extended delta pad) may be the only tool that could reach in there to sand it, so that may factor into your decision.

I think that is correct.  An extended-head sander is the only thing that's going to reach in between the louvers.  Definitely something to factor in.

If you are doing window sills, you might consider the DTS or RTS 400.  Both give you a little more surface area and tend to work longer than a detail sander in terms of paper wear.  The RTS is a nice general purpose sander and the DTS adds the cornering capability.  If you are only doing sills or cabinet fronts and face frames, the detail aspect might not be as critical as general flat sanding.

I just sanded and repainted kitchen cabinets using the RTS400 and ETS 150/3 and it worked great. 
...
The RO90 is certainly versatile and I find it does a great job.  But if you are thinking to the future and refinishing drywall, I think the RTS or DTS could cover both tasks - or step up to the 150/3 or 125 version. 

I was thinking I would need the detail sander for the sills because of the corners, but you're right, the majority of the sanding will be flat work (although a fairly narrow area).  The one thing that makes me think the RTS would not be as useful is sanding around the parting bead.  But I suppose I could get that area by hand. 

It certainly seems like there's not one sander that would do everything I want.  Maybe I buy the best one for this job, keeping in mind how it will fit into a future stable of sanders!

 

[SS Teach]

Welcome to the FOG. Another thing to consider would be the Ro 90 window edge protectors, along with the extended delta pad. Oh by the way which ever sander you get realize its only the first. They have a way of multiplying. Festools are a system their tools are designed to work together;, sanders, saws, routers, dust extractors, others not so much.

 

[Holmz]

...

My current project (the one prompting the purchase) is repairing, sanding, and painting the window sills.  I tested and there is lead-based paint, so I want to contain as much of that dust as possible.  The Festool dust collectors (with HEPA certification) seem like the best tool for the job.  I'm thinking a MIDI or CT-26.  I've read some comparisons on the forums and am leaning toward the 26 just for future flexibility.  I am also debating whether I should pair this with the Rotex 90 or the Bosch detail sander.  The Rotex seems like an extremely versatile tool, but the price is a bit staggering and I've read that dust collection in delta mode isn't great.  The Bosch is 1/3 the price, decent at dust collection, but not nearly as versatile.  I think a more fair comparison would be to the Festool DX93, but since it's discontinued, that's not really an option.
I got a used DX93, and they show up once in a while. The Bosch may be worthwhile
You may contain more dust with heat or chemicals and scraping.

I also have a number of projects in the queue. 

• Wood garage door needs a sand and re-paint.  My test didn't show LBP, but home testing can be inaccurate if it's encapsulated, so I think it would be safe to assume this also has it.  Don't need to go down to bare wood, so with careful sanding I can probably minimize the risk of lead dust.
• Next summer I will probably be stripping, re-glazing, and painting all the wood windows.  For that I will likely get a SpeedHeater or build a steam box to remove paint with minimal lead dust creation.  But a detail sander will probably come in handy for touchup sanding after paint removal in that project.
• There are a number of built-ins that need to be sanded and painted.  Seems like another place a detail sander would be helpful.
• As we work on each room we are skim coating the drywall (either to fix damage from wallpaper removal or to eliminate texture).  I don't think a Planex is in my future, but it would be nice to be able to sand with less drywall dust. The Rotex 90 would be way too small for that, but I don't know if one of the 150 sanders could work since I would only be using it for that occasionally?

The deros or the ETS EC 150/ would work and they are both light weight.

• The kitchen cabinets could use a sand and re-paint.  They are new enough that it may not be LBP, but since it's interior work, good dust collection would be nice.
• There are a bunch of louvered closet doors that need to be repainted.  This work would take place in a basement "shop". 

The RS2E is a 1/2 sheet sander and make it easier to have a flat surface.
I know that's kind of all over the place.  But any advice on the model of dust collector, Rotex vs. Bosch, and tools I may be forgetting would be fantastic.  I'll probably end up buying more tools after this first purchase.  My understanding is that the green containers just start multiplying after your first few.

Thanks in advance for your help!

So a used DX93, and vacuum, and then I would lean towards the RS2E for wood (even the sills) and the ETS EC or Mirka Deros for the walls.

 

[Goz]

Okay, update time.  I ended up with a CT-26 (yay DE sale!) and Rotex RO 90.  I decided to just buy for the current project and worry about other tools as needs arise.  The Rotex seemed like the perfect fit for the window sills.  The gear driven mode would be best for paint removal, and the delta head will be perfect for detail work.

I had a chance to play around with them both a bit over the long weekend.  I had high expectations and was impressed by both.  The Rotex took a bit of practice on gear driven mode, but man does that have some power!  And the CT-26 sucked up nearly all the dust...quietly!  Looking forward to spending some more time with them.  I think this will really speed up my home improvement timeline.

Thanks again to everyone for the advice.  I may have to steal [member=61712]six-point socket II[/member] idea and start my own thread in the Home Improvement Projects board to show the progress.

 

[leakyroof]

Okay, update time.  I ended up with a CT-26 (yay DE sale!) and Rotex RO 90.  I decided to just buy for the current project and worry about other tools as needs arise.  The Rotex seemed like the perfect fit for the window sills.  The gear driven mode would be best for paint removal, and the delta head will be perfect for detail work.

I had a chance to play around with them both a bit over the long weekend.  I had high expectations and was impressed by both.  The Rotex took a bit of practice on gear driven mode, but man does that have some power!  And the CT-26 sucked up nearly all the dust...quietly!  Looking forward to spending some more time with them.  I think this will really speed up my home improvement timeline.

Thanks again to everyone for the advice.  I may have to steal [member=61712]six-point socket II[/member] idea and start my own thread in the Home Improvement Projects board to show the progress.

. Don't overlook used Sanders here on FOG or Craigslist. I bought my track saw and my little MFT800 used since the poor owner had died in front of his wife at their dining room table with a heart attack.  Very Sad, but these things happen...
Also, the people who had the earlier version ETS sanders are now starting to sell them off for the new, smaller EC version, so there are more used ETS sanders around than usual for sale.