Looking for FWW review of Fstl Vacs and reason why

woodwreck

woodwreck

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FWW reportedly reviewed Festool (Fstl) vacs and ended up with less than stellar report.

Subsequently, someone has commented that the report was flawed in specific procedure. I am particularly interested in self cleaning/cyclonic capability and its automatic continuous operation; need for expensive bags, and noise level. Compared to comparable vacs like Bosch, Pulse, DeWalt or similar relabeled but same devices. Shop Vac is NOT similarly equipped or designed.

Direction to such reviews would be appreciated.

TIA
 
I own the Bosch that the FWW test concluded was the "winner".
I also own 3 Fein Vacs, an early one, a Turbo II HEPA, and a Turbo III. 
And a Milwaukee 8945 3 stage Stainless Steel industrial Vac. 
And a Jamco industrial Wet/Dry extractor.
I have a Festool Midi.

I found the FWW review to be completely flawed and poor to the point of complete incompetence. I read it and then asked the magazine "you did WHAT? Are you stupid?". Of course, I literally said that to the magazine while I was holding it in my hands............
 
There's another review of shop vacs in Fine Homebuilding #240 (December 2013/January 2014) on pp. 54-59 in which the CT 36 is one of the items tested.  I don't agree with their test methodology of running without bags (as in the review in FWW earlier), since it's very clear that the CT 36 is designed to run with a bag.  Aside from that, the CT 36 comes out quite well overall. 

 
Sparktrician said:
There's another review of shop vacs in Fine Homebuilding #240 (December 2013/January 2014) on pp. 54-59 in which the CT 36 is one of the items tested.  I don't agree with their test methodology of running without bags (as in the review in FWW earlier), since it's very clear that the CT 36 is designed to run with a bag.  Aside from that, the CT 36 comes out quite well overall. 
Click to expand...

You're joking?!

[eek]

After the furore last time- and I think Asa Christiana the editor of FWW posted on the FOG to answer some of the criticisms- they ran the test without using a bag AGAIN? I dropped my subscription to FWW a long time ago so I can't read the article.
 
aren't the wood working mags just like the audio equipment mags ? in that these days it's who pays the Ad Payola is the one who gets the best review  ?   [dead horse]
 
I don't think they did this for an advertiser. They just didn't think. If you want to measure pure suction, I suppose the method is fine. However, if you want to evaluate the whole package, then you can't remove one of the parts, especially the bag/filter. I can't even imagine anyone using it without the bag. Festool designed the vac to work with all its parts.
 
grbmds said:
I don't think they did this for an advertiser. They just didn't think. If you want to measure pure suction, I suppose the method is fine. However, if you want to evaluate the whole package, then you can't remove one of the parts, especially the bag/filter. I can't even imagine anyone using it without the bag. Festool designed the vac to work with all its parts.
Click to expand...
It's also the misconception that vacuums are JUST for picking up debris & the highest CFM machine is the best at doing that .  [eek]
the bagless machines are just In Room Dust Pumps IMO  
 
RL said:
Sparktrician said:
There's another review of shop vacs in Fine Homebuilding #240 (December 2013/January 2014) on pp. 54-59 in which the CT 36 is one of the items tested.  I don't agree with their test methodology of running without bags (as in the review in FWW earlier), since it's very clear that the CT 36 is designed to run with a bag.  Aside from that, the CT 36 comes out quite well overall. 
Click to expand...

You're joking?!

[eek]

After the furore last time- and I think Asa Christiana the editor of FWW posted on the FOG to answer some of the criticisms- they ran the test without using a bag AGAIN? I dropped my subscription to FWW a long time ago so I can't read the article.
Click to expand...

You'd think that they'd have learned by now to use tools as they're designed to be used, even if test methodologies have to be modified.  As in the previous test in FWW, I have serious reservations regarding their test methodologies.  Aside from funky testing, I generally like the publications and have learned much from them, even if it's what NOT to do. 

 
Being from the concrete coatings world I have an unhealthy love for vacs. I've had pretty much everything from cheapo ridgid's up to the $10,000 plus Ruwac's. Got out of the business and kept one vac for personal use (but I like it so much I take it to work)....The for some reason unseen and unheard of Metabo ASR 35. Easily the best around. Filters clean themselves, no bags, turns itself off 10 seconds or so after I shut the tool off to get all the dust out. I torture this thing unlike our shops ct36. It sees everything wet or dry and still can't complain. Ok, one complaint. It doesn't lock my systainers to it. That'll be remedied though.
 
Sheepherder

Interesting info about the Metabo. I'm assuming it has Hepa filters and I unfortunately can only find it available from Amazon sources. Have you had a need to replace filters yet. Any info is helpful. My son currently has the CT36 pulsevac and it seems to work quite well. Unfortunately it wasn't available when FWW did their sideways testing.

John
 
junk said:
Sheepherder

Interesting info about the Metabo. I'm assuming it has Hepa filters and I unfortunately can only find it available from Amazon sources. Have you had a need to replace filters yet. Any info is helpful. My son currently has the CT36 pulsevac and it seems to work quite well. Unfortunately it wasn't available when FWW did their sideways testing.

John
Click to expand...

John-

The Metabo (Starmix) does have hepa filters and haven't replaced them yet. Hosed them off a few times but for the most part the cleaning feature shakes most of it away. The cleaning feature is great. Unlike other vacs I've had or have used it senses the filters getting clogged no matter the power setting your running  and automatically cleans them while still in use. Think I paid $750-800ish back in 2011 for it. Even as much as I use and abuse this guy I wouldn't trade it for any other brand new machine.
If you've dealt with concrete dust before you'll know that it likes to eat tools, quickly. That's why I use metabo grinders and vacs. They work better than most and more importantly don't break! Another note, the hose is positively locked on to the vac with a quarter turn so with its big wheels and casters you can drag this thing pretty much anywhere by the hose.
Edit for manufacturer accuracy and little more data.
 
I was under the impression that the Bosch and Metabo vacuums were made by Starmix.  Starmix has a whole series of "can it break" videos out on their new iPulse vacs. The videos are quite comical, just google "Starmix can it break"

 
Learn something new every day. The Metabo is a starmix. Pretty disappointed as a vac addict that I've never even heard of them.

And why don't I know them? Because the only way I've found to get a real Starmix in the US is to get a Metabo.
 
woodie said:
I was under the impression that the Bosch and Metabo vacuums were made by Starmix.  Starmix has a whole series of "can it break" videos out on their new iPulse vacs. The videos are quite comical, just google "Starmix can it break"
Click to expand...

The one where they vacuum up the manure is revolting!
 
amt said:
Greg, how do the Bosch and the Midi compare?
Click to expand...
I am using them for different uses. The Bosch is mostly dedicated to concrete grinding and cutting along with cleanup on those jobs. It is a nice vac for that as you can use it wet, damp, or dry without reconfiguration. When you use a portable vac, it is likely to be top heavy unless the vac is built low like Festool's vacs and the Bosch 3931. This causes a problem with wet/damp pickup since the filters are too close to the material and can cake up with "mud". The filter shaker of the Bosch helped that. I did not feel that the advantages of that vac were there for the target reader of Fine Wood Working. They should have defined the parameters of the use as different vacs have advantages in different uses.

I use the Midi mainly where the light weight and portability are a big advantage. Most of its use is to work dust free when connected to power tools, mostly Festool. The small square size and ability to mount systainers to the top are the primary advantages on yachts and airplanes. It only requires one tie down for the vac and the systainers to be secure in the engine room of the big yacht where it spends much of its time. Wood yachts require LOTS of sanding and you need to work quietly and dust free. I would imagine this would be very similar to a tradesman that needs to store his stuff in a van where space may be at a premium.

I prefer the Fein Vacs in the shop simply because they have most of the advantages of the Festool vacs for a much lower cost as I have bought them when on sale. Last one was the Fein Turbo II HEPA for $303. For its intended use it works 95% as well as a Festool for 40%+ less money. If I was paying list price, I would buy the Festool.

Different vacs for different uses. FWW should have defined the uses and laid out the advantages/disadvantages of each. I think most FWW readers looking at vacs in that price range would be interested in dust collection for tools. They should have been compared with the same size hoses. The Bosch coming with a larger hose should not have been an advantage.

The current Bosch vacs are now different than the 3931 tested and I do believe the Bosch and Metabo are both made by Starmix. Didn't Starmix also make the Protool vacs or at least some models of them?
 
The Starmix's look awesome - defiantly been frustrated with the loss of suction in the Festool vacs when dealing with plaster or other cement type dusts.
 
FWW's sister magazine just did a test in their Nov. 2013 issue. They even used the dust bag!
 
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