Looking to get into the 18V batteries - advice?

[DynaGlide]

Hello,

I just bought the OSC 18 basic as I already own the accessory kit for it. I need some 18V batteries to go with it and I like the looks of the new 4ah compacts. They're very spendy at $120/ea. And I'd need a charger, either the TCL 6 or the SCA 8.

Is my best bet to get the TiD 18 set for $349 that includes 2 of the 4ah + TCL 6? I don't really need the impact but if my math is right, I'd be getting the impact and systainer for $349 - 2x $120 (batteries) - $75 (TCL 6) = $34. I feel like they did this on purpose with the pricing of the batteries but what do I know.

Matt

 

[Ron B]

I do see there is a recent classified ad on FOG for a 5.2 batteries and also separately a charger (posted by Rylim).
But that does not give you the batteries you want. So yes, I think the TID18 kit is probably the way to go.  You know the TID18 basic lists for $199 so I think you could strip the batteries and charger out of a kit, then turn around and sell the systainer and TID18 for under $199 and you should be able to sell it easily enough and come out ahead.

I do not know the inventory situation on TID18.  A lot of dealers are low on Festool inventory.  This knife cuts both ways. If inventory is low, and you find one, then that means you have a better market to resale the TID18. 

I agree that the 4.0 battery is a lot less bulky and lighter than the 5.2. 

 

[mino]

Hello,

I just bought the OSC 18 basic as I already own the accessory kit for it. I need some 18V batteries to go with it and I like the looks of the new 4ah compacts. They're very spendy at $120/ea. And I'd need a charger, either the TCL 6 or the SCA 8.

Is my best bet to get the TiD 18 set for $349 that includes 2 of the 4ah + TCL 6? I don't really need the impact but if my math is right, I'd be getting the impact and systainer for $349 - 2x $120 (batteries) - $75 (TCL 6) = $34. I feel like they did this on purpose with the pricing of the batteries but what do I know.

Matt

I would advise to stay clear of the 4Ah for the OSC use. Their main benefit is you avoid the (even) bulkier and heavier 5.2/6.2 bats for ergonomy. But they are still heavy compared to the small 5-cell ones.

Whatever set you get, for OSC I would avoid the "big" bats and go with the simpler and lighter 3.1 bats set. You also do not need the SCA 8 charger, the standard TCL 6 or even used TCL 3 will be fine for these.

For the smaller tools the reduced size and weight of the 3.1 ones is worth it and they have plenty of punch for these tools. Leave the "biggies" purchase for when you decide to get heavier tools like the TSC or the AGC 18 that can use the current the 10-cell bats or the 4.0 HD provide.

For reference:
3.1 - ca 0,35 kg (5-cell, 18650)
4.0 HD - ca 0.5 kg (5-cell, 21700) wider and longer, height as the 5-cell bats
5.2 - ca 0,6 kg (10-cell, 18650) same base as 3,1 but higher
6.6 - ca 0,6 kg (10-cell, 18650) same base as 3,1 but higher

If no particular tool, I would actually go after the DRC18/4 or PDC18/4. If you do not need the impact, these drills will end up much more used than the TiD will. Their 4000 rpm top speed is great for many use cases, not only small diameter drilling ... and they have the "standard" drill collar, so can be attached to jigs/stands etc.

My story:
Took advantage of the last year promotion with the 5.2 Bluetooth bats, and now realized I got a plenty of heavy/strong bats, but no light ones for the occasional use with my DRC 18 or BHC 18. It is no use I do not need to charge the bat on the DRC for several days if the already heavy tool is heavier than need be ..

Even with a couple spare big bats I plan to buy one or two of the smaller ones eventually this year.

 

[DynaGlide]

Those are fair points from both of you. [member=61254]mino[/member] I don't even see the 3.1 battery anymore. Toolnut carries a 203800 https://www.toolnut.com/festool-203800-bluetooth-18v-airstream-compact-battery-3-1ah.html however there seems to be no inventory at other dealers or even mention of it from Festool USA. The tools you mentioned are too expensive and ship with the new 4.0ah compacts.

Are 3.1ah being phased out?

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/discontinued-li-battery-pack-announcement/

 

[mino]

Those are fair points from both of you. [member=61254]mino[/member] I don't even see the 3.1 battery anymore. Toolnut carries a 203800 https://www.toolnut.com/festool-203800-bluetooth-18v-airstream-compact-battery-3-1ah.html however there seems to be no inventory at other dealers or even mention of it from Festool USA. The tools you mentioned are too expensive and ship with the new 4.0ah compacts.

Are 3.1ah being phased out?

Not sure, in Europe these are normally available but can be different in US. Apologies for mystification there ...

Toolnut and other US-based Festool sellers I heard about are mostly geo-blocking non-US users so cannot be accessed from over here. I do not have a US-based VPN service to work around that at the moment.

EDIT: Yeah, sorry. Only the DWC seems to be still available with the small bats, but even for that they are not listed as spares:https://www.festoolusa.com/products...rs/575757---dwc18-4500-li-i-comp-usa#Overview

Guess the in US everyone goes for "bigger and better" so Festool USA decided to use the 4.0 ones as the baseline and reduce the SKU count in the process. It think this is a shame, could have kept them as accessories at least.

 

[DynaGlide]

All my googling appears to indicate Festool USA has discontinued the 3.1 battery in favor of the 4.0ah compact. Even to the point that you can't find any tools shipped with 3.1, they were apparently pulled and updated to included 4.0ah.

I guess that makes my decision easier. It's not that I wouldn't ever use the TiD 18 it's just not a tool high on my list. But if I get it for $40 over what I'd be spending anyway 

 

[mino]

Just looking at that - I think the TiD must be on some semi-promotional price over the pond still.

In Europe the lowest price is €500 for the Plus set with €280 for the bare tool.

Granted, that is with taxes included ... but still ... $350 for that set is a VERY sweet deal.

 

[nclemmons]

Not sure if you have the Bluetooth option on your vac, but I'd certainly consider BT batteries in your mix of new purchases. 

I have the new TiD but find my Makita compact brushless to be more comfortable and lighter weight than the TiD.  I'm mostly FT but have a few Makita's for fill-in jobs.  Just purchased their compact battery router and it's great for edge routing and smaller jobs.

I have the TSC, OSC and Carvex on batteries and use BT with all of them.

 

[DynaGlide]

Yep I have a CT26 with BT. I mostly keep it in the shop but I figure I'll end up with a CT SYS whenever they refresh it, which will presumably include BT.

For me I'm with you. Instead I'm a Milwaukee fan. I have a bunch of their stuff and I hear their hydraulic impact is pretty great. It seems the most economical solution is to just get the TiD 18.

 

[semenza]

Yes, the 3.1 are going away / gone. Unfortunately  the 3.1 is the best choice for the OSC18. It is as much the weight difference as it is the size.  But the 4.0 is not a deal breaker for the OSC18, just not as nice in the handling department.

Something to note that isn't always apparent in pictures................though not as tall, the 4.0 is wider than the 3.1 and 5.2.

I think one big positive of the 4.0 is that it is fairly compact but will run every 18v tool (barring the sanders, CXS/TXS).

Seth

 

[DynaGlide]

Yes, the 3.1 are going away / gone. Unfortunately  the 3.1 is the best choice for the OSC18. It is as much the weight difference as it is the size.  But the 4.0 is not a deal breaker for the OSC18, just not as nice in the handling department.

Something to note that isn't always apparent in pictures................though not as tall, the 4.0 is wider than the 3.1 and 5.2.

I think one big positive of the 4.0 is that it is fairly compact but will run every 18v tool (barring the sanders , CXS/TXS).

Seth

Thanks Seth for the info. I can't say I haven't eyeballed the TSC55 before. Being able to just grab it with the attached bag to make a few cuts in the garage on plywood deliveries before moving them down to my basement shop is appealing.

 

[mino]

Yes, the 3.1 are going away / gone. Unfortunately  the 3.1 is the best choice for the OSC18. It is as much the weight difference as it is the size.  But the 4.0 is not a deal breaker for the OSC18, just not as nice in the handling department.

Something to note that isn't always apparent in pictures................though not as tall, the 4.0 is wider than the 3.1 and 5.2.

I think one big positive of the 4.0 is that it is fairly compact but will run every 18v tool (barring the sanders , CXS/TXS).

Seth

Thanks Seth for the info. I can't say I haven't eyeballed the TSC55 before. Being able to just grab it with the attached bag to make a few cuts in the garage on plywood deliveries before moving them down to my basement shop is appealing.

If anything from the battery tools, check out the AGC 18. That tool is the most used tool /after the drills/ for me. Being cordless AND speed regulated makes it very useful with a sanding pad for the "here and there" material removal task, blade sharpening etc. etc.

Did not realize how much I would use it before had it ... I use it almost exclusively in shop, but having no cord makes it now my go to tool for imprecise material removal here and there. Funny thing is I use it very little in the "grinder" role.

 

[mkasdin]

Yes, the 3.1 are going away / gone. Unfortunately  the 3.1 is the best choice for the OSC18. It is as much the weight difference as it is the size.  But the 4.0 is not a deal breaker for the OSC18, just not as nice in the handling department.

Something to note that isn't always apparent in pictures................though not as tall, the 4.0 is wider than the 3.1 and 5.2.

I think one big positive of the 4.0 is that it is fairly compact but will run every 18v tool (barring the sanders).

Seth

I believe the folks at Festool don’t recommend using the new 4.0 high efficiency lithium batteries with the hkc55 or tsc55?

Yes, the 3.1 are going away / gone. Unfortunately  the 3.1 is the best choice for the OSC18. It is as much the weight difference as it is the size.  But the 4.0 is not a deal breaker for the OSC18, just not as nice in the handling department.

Something to note that isn't always apparent in pictures................though not as tall, the 4.0 is wider than the 3.1 and 5.2.

I think one big positive of the 4.0 is that it is fairly compact but will run every 18v tool (barring the sanders , CXS/TXS).

Seth

Thanks Seth for the info. I can't say I haven't eyeballed the TSC55 before. Being able to just grab it with the attached bag to make a few cuts in the garage on plywood deliveries before moving them down to my basement shop is appealing.

If you’re wanting to make a few cuts then look at the hkc55, but it’s really a carpenters saw.  I was personally eyeing the T18 kit which comes with the tlc6 and #2 4.0 amp HE batteries. I’m just also toying with he idea of getting the T18 + TiD 18 or the T18+PDC18 kit. The one tool only is the least cost into the battery game.
The dust bag can be purchased separately to attach to the ts-55. It works the same on the cordless and corded TS55.

 

[Imemiter]

I have been running my HKC on the 4.0 batteries, but I hardly notice the weight difference. The question I have is whether the QSC will run on the sander batteries. That would be the only platform overlap I can think of, but does anyone know??? 

I can't answer the OP question, but my strategy involved buying the TiD used. Lightly used tools are a good way to get into any platform. I wish I could've found a QSC used but no one was selling. 

 

[semenza]

Yes, the 3.1 are going away / gone. Unfortunately  the 3.1 is the best choice for the OSC18. It is as much the weight difference as it is the size.  But the 4.0 is not a deal breaker for the OSC18, just not as nice in the handling department.

Something to note that isn't always apparent in pictures................though not as tall, the 4.0 is wider than the 3.1 and 5.2.

I think one big positive of the 4.0 is that it is fairly compact but will run every 18v tool (barring the sanders, and CXS/TXS).

Seth

I believe the folks at Festool don’t recommend using the new 4.0 high efficiency lithium batteries with the hkc55 or tsc55?

I hadn't heard that. Why would that be?    On the Festool USA site in the 4.0 battery listing it says it runs everything.

Seth

 

[semenza]

I have been running my HKC on the 4.0 batteries, but I hardly notice the weight difference. The question I have is whether the QSC will run on the sander batteries. That would be the only platform overlap I can think of, but does anyone know??? 

I can't answer the OP question, but my strategy involved buying the TiD used. Lightly used tools are a good way to get into any platform. I wish I could've found a QSC used but no one was selling.

  OSC ?  The sander batteries do not fit the OSC.

Seth

 

[Imemiter]

  OSC ?  The sander batteries do not fit the OSC.

Seth

Darn! And oops, yes. The OSC. Knowing they share chargers got me wondering.

 

[mkasdin]

I hadn't heard that. Why would that be?    On the Festool USA site in the 4.0 battery listing it says it runs everything.

Seth

It makes sense of course! My discussion with application support was regarding the TSC-55 as I inquired about wanting to use the 4.0 HE BT lithium batteries . I scoured the FOG site and there is a consensus to use two sets of batteries of (older) 3.2 amp for all day use.
Also there was a video by Festool.com about the TSC-55 cutting 1” velchromat (mdf) with the 5.0 BT batteries it would cut 30 meters of materials, before the batteries were kaput. Just wondering with 20% lower amps, less cuts and greater full discharge and cycles of the batteries, there could be premature failure? Not sure if the circuitry on the new 4.0. HE batteries were designed for the higher output of the saws? I would think 18 volt is 18 volt, but perhaps FT application support is more concerned about user experience and expectations?

EDIT> Fixed quote box.

 

[semenza]

I hadn't heard that. Why would that be?    On the Festool USA site in the 4.0 battery listing it says it runs everything.

Seth

It makes sense of course! My discussion with application support was regarding the TSC-55 as I inquired about wanting to use the 4.0 HE BT lithium batteries . I scoured the FOG site and there is a consensus to use two sets of batteries of (older) 3.2 amp for all day use.
Also there was a video by Festool.com about the TSC-55 cutting 1” velchromat (mdf) with the 5.0 BT batteries it would cut 30 meters of materials, before the batteries were kaput. Just wondering with 20% lower amps, less cuts and greater full discharge and cycles of the batteries, there could be premature failure? Not sure if the circuitry on the new 4.0. HE batteries were designed for the higher output of the saws? I would think 18 volt is 18 volt, but perhaps FT application support is more concerned about user experience?

  The 3.1aH won't run the TSC55. But the 4.0 will. Yes, I am sure there will be less less run time with the 4.0 than the 5.2. Whether or not the 4.0 will keep up really depends on how much cutting is being done vs. recharge time.

  Lower aH will mean more charge cycles and probably faster degradation, but how much faster and how much long term use to get to that point is going to really vary. I am thinking  that it will take a lot of serious use to matter much.  There is of course the 6.2 for even more. 

  My main point on the 4.0 is that it will run everything (on that 18v battery style platform) and make it so that you only to have one battery size / shape in a portable tool set. That may or may not matter depending on the work, trade, and worker (s).

    For me ...............  if I can have one battery that runs everything, then I really only need to cart three packs and could get away with two 99% of the time.  For my usage there is enough power in the 4.0 to do the job. Even the 3.1 would do it but it won't run all the tools. I prefer smaller, more compact, lighter. As it stands now I am still using two sizes .... the 4.0 and the 1.5 12v. Simply because I really like the light weight and compact size of the C12 with 1.5 aH battery. If I upgrade to 18v drills I could just go with the 4.0. But the 4.0 is wider and much heavier than the 1.5.

      Here is the link to the 4.0 battery on Festool USAhttps://www.festool.com/accessory/205034---bp-18-li-4,0-hpc-asi#Overview.  Using it on all the tools?  Right or wrong I don't know.

Seth

 

[mkasdin]

The 3.1aH won't run the TSC55. But the 4.0 will... Yes, I am sure there will be less less run time with the 4.0 than the 5.2. Lower aH will mean more charge cycles and probably faster degradation, but how much faster and how much long term use to get to that point is going to really vary. I am thinking  that it will take a lot of serious use to matter much.  There is of course the 6.2 for even more. 

  My main point on the 4.0 is that it will run everything (on that 18v battery style platform) and make it so that you only to have one battery size / shape in a portable tool set. That may or may not matter depending on the work, trade, and worker (s).

Seth

With the TSC-55 it’s already a hefty tool with two 5.0 batteries, the slight deduction of weight isn’t a great concern. With the 5.0 batteries it’s closer to the weight of the TS75? The hand tools like vecturo, drills and tid18 would benefit from the weight loss program. If I’m using the drill all day overhead, on a ladder, outstretched arms the lighter the better I really wanted to run the tsc or the hkc55 on the 4.0 batteries but I took the advice of Festool application support. What do I know about battery technology?