Low profile Euro style cabinet door hinges?

[Michael Kellough]

Designing a pantry with pull-outs, aka utilitarian drawers.

Doors will be full overlay and there is no face frame in order to maximize width of pull-outs.

Which hinges project the least? The full extension slides will put the side of the pull-out 1/2” away from the cabinet side. Are there any full overlay hinges that project less than 12mm?

Would Soss hinges work for this?

 

[Packard]

I built a pantry with pull outs years ago.  A tall cabinet with three hinges. 

I did not space the pull outs evenly as I wanted some pull outs to accommodate taller packages (like breakfast cereal).

I simply arranged the layout so that the pull outs were not aligned with the hinges.  No special hinges, just a bit of extra planning.

Typically, a cabinet with all the same height pull outs, do not best utilize the space available.  You either end up with too few tall pull outs or too many short pull outs (with no place to put the tall items).

It is best to take all the items you need to store in the cabinet and arrange them on a table in height order.  Then you can figure how tall a pull out you need for each grouping. 

That is the only way to optimize the size of the pull outs. 

Also, you can mount storage on the door interior (extra hinges are required) for small items like spices.  That allows for more tall pull outs.

In my opinion, this is best resolved by planning, not shopping for special hinges.

 

[tjbnwi]

We use Century X-series adjustable pilasters and brackets.
https://www.cabinetparts.com/p/cent...OOMlZG2zdvI2vs1KC5Mk98Wt38BP-wRsaAguWEALw_wcB

This system allows for adjustability of the shelves. The depth of the pilaster also eliminates hinge interference issues.

When we do a single rollout in a base cabinet we short the width of the rollout 2.5”. This will clear a “normal” hinge and 0mm plate. If you want to go wider with the rollout, 155º zero protrusion hinges allow you to go opening width less 1.5”.

Tom

 

[Michael Kellough]

Re “zero protrusion” I guess that means the hinge moves the door out of the way of the pull-out, but the side of the pullout still has to clear the height of the hinge, which looks like it’s a good bit more than 1/2”.

I remember the Century-X pillasters and they seem great for face frame cabinets, but they’re 1-1/4” deep already. Then add another 1/2” for the slide.

I’m looking to maximize the width of the pullouts in a frameless cabinet.
Any surface mount hinge will protrude some amount (which hinge protrudes the least?).

I looked at the “Blum compact” style but they require a 3/16” gap at the back of the door.

 

[Michael Kellough]

I should not have underlined maximize.

To really maximize you need to flip the slides over and install them backwards, recessed into dados cut into the the drawer sides. (Just the loose skinny piece screwed to the carcass)

I’ve done that on proper drawers (no door). Managed to get the drawers sides about 1mm from the carcass. In this case I just want to minimize the wasted space required to dodge the hinge. I’ve got a 1/2” slack automatically from the thickness of the slides.

Ideally there is a surface mount hinge that protrudes less than 1/2” from the surface that provides 3/4” overlay. And doesn’t push the door out as far as the “compact” hinges.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Thanks for that [member=61254]mino[/member]

I like your extreme hinge accommodation on your bookshelf.

These doors will need three hinges. The upper will not be a problem and the middle just has to be spaced between pullouts. The biggest waste of space is at the bottom. The lowest pullout has to be above the lowest hinge. Maybe I’ll hang a shallow shelf under the pullout.

 

[tjbnwi]

Re “zero protrusion” I guess that means the hinge moves the door out of the way of the pull-out, but the side of the pullout still has to clear the height of the hinge, which looks like it’s a good bit more than 1/2”.

I remember the Century-X pillasters and they seem great for face frame cabinets, but they’re 1-1/4” deep already. Then add another 1/2” for the slide.

I’m looking to maximize the width of the pullouts in a frameless cabinet.
Any surface mount hinge will protrude some amount (which hinge protrudes the least?).

I looked at the “Blum compact” style but they require a 3/16” gap at the back of the door.

The 1-1/4” X-Series is sized so the rollout clears a 110+ Blum hinge with a 0mm plate.

Make the bottom rollout width to clear the hinges, you can size the other rollouts full width. I’ve seen rollouts rub door edges trying to get the max width possible.

Tom

 

[Michael Kellough]

Thanks Tom!

 

[morts10n]

Zero protrusion hinges offer the widest rollouts possible, but must be placed above (or below) the roll-out locations

 

[Michael Kellough]

What exactly does zero protrusion mean? The mounting plate is narrow, or the door moves farther away than the surface the hinge is mounted on?

 

[tjbnwi]

What exactly does zero protrusion mean? The mounting plate is narrow, or the door moves farther away than the surface the hinge is mounted on?

Showing this cabinet door open. It is an inset build with 1/2 crank hinges. You can see how much the door intrudes on the opening.

[attachimg=1]

This island we delivered that has 155º zero protrusion hinges, the two doors on the left.

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

Rollouts in place and the doors open, you can see how far the hinges move the door from the opening.

[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]

Tom

 

[Michael Kellough]

Some people must be laughing at me.  [embarassed]

There are a couple of mentions of “zero protrusion hinges” in the advice above and I totally missed that there is no such thing (despite repeatedly failing to find any).

What zero protrusion refers to is the mounting plate not the hinge. I was also distracted by Mino’s link to an unusual narrow mounting plate (which could be useful) but it’s mainly the zero spec that I need.

Ultimately what will work best are 155* hinges on 0 (zero) mounting plates. What Tom said and I misunderstood.

 

[Cheese]

Michael this isn't to tell you what to do but rather what NOT to do.  [smile]

These plastic slide spacers are popular because they're cheap, but that's all they are.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

Within 6 months of installing this cabinet and loading it up with cookware I noticed some dust/particles on the cabinet base along with a couple of screws, I knew that wasn't good.

[attachimg=4]

Bottom line was, that I had to make a wooden insert for the cabinet slides because at the time I wasn't aware of the Century-X solution. I would have opted for the Century-X had I been aware of their existence.

The good thing that did come out of this fiasco is that I was able to provide some additional storage for 2 large sheet pans.

[attachimg=5]

 

[Michael Kellough]

@ Cheese I too have learned that square drive and short screws are a fraught combination, unless you turn the torque setting all the way down and finish by hand.

This pantry will be frameless so if I need (a pilaster) to pack out the slides it will only be on the hinge side, and probably only a quarter inch or so.

 

[tjbnwi]

Some people must be laughing at me.  [embarassed]

There are a couple of mentions of “zero protrusion hinges” in the advice above and I totally missed that there is no such thing (despite repeatedly failing to find any).

What zero protrusion refers to is the mounting plate not the hinge. I was also distracted by Mino’s link to an unusual narrow mounting plate (which could be useful) but it’s mainly the zero spec that I need.

Ultimately what will work best are 155* hinges on 0 (zero) mounting plates. What Tom said and I misunderstood.

To start with, I'm pretty certian no one is laughing at you.

The zero protrusions refers to the hinge and hinge alone, it has nothing to do with the plate. The zero protrusions come in both 125º and 155º swing. This is the page from Blums catalog for the 155 zero protrusion.

[attachimg=1]

Here is the page for a special application using the 155º degree hinge.

[attachimg=2]

On to the mounting plates, they run from 0mm all the way up to 29mm.

[attachimg=3]

If you need assitance picking the proper plates and hinges let me know. If you just need a few and can't purchase in the quantity you need I have these on the shelf and can send you some.

Tom

 

[semenza]

Isn't the "protrusion"  referring to the protrusion of the open door into the cabinet opening? In other words if the door is fully open, then it (the door) will not protrude into the open space of the face frame or panel  ( depending on which type ) when using a zero protrusion hinge.

Seth

 

[Michael Kellough]

Thanks Tom! Great info!

I might have enough hardware on hand (some kind of 155* hinges) depending on how the mockup pans out. Since the side mount slides give me 1/2” clearance and the overlay is only about 17mm I might not need true zero protrusion hinges. I really didn’t that was a thing  [huh]

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Isn't the "protrusion"  referring to the protrusion of the open door into the cabinet opening? In other words if the door is fully open, then it (the door) will not protrude into the open space of the face frame or panel  ( depending on which type ) when using a zero protrusion hinge.

Seth

Yes Seth, that is the part that makes all of this mis-leading. It's about how much of the door is blocking the opening.....because ironically, the hinges actually protrude worse, except for the very last few degrees of opening.

I do very few face frame cabinets, at least with doors, and the last ones I did where full overlay...and a hideous blue laminate too boot. There were no pull-outs behind the doors, but drawers above, requiring spacers.
This time, because of an inexperienced guy in the engineering department, I had to make custom thickness spacers and do all of the measuring/drilling for the drawer guides.
The plastic spacers that [member=44099]Cheese[/member] showed are, as he suggested, cheap, they are also easy and "standardized".
They are easy, in the way they fit into the 5mm holes, which are already there in a commercial cabinet shop situation, having been drilled by a CNC machine.
They are also standardized in their thickness, so that the drawer width can also be determined in the software.
The job I referred to before turned into a complete mess because this particular guy did not know that these things existed, or at least compensate in that typical 1"/25mm thickness.
I ended up with 7/8" thick Poplar spacers on the hinge side and 1/4" on the divider side....all because the drawers were already made. The only reasonable way to adjust the fit was in the spacers.
Apparently, I didn't take any pics of the base cabs, showing the spacers, before they got wrapped up?
It was a whole deal though, since they had to be custom made and then painted (wait to dry) before continuing.
This job took at least 2 entire days longer than it would have, if it had been done the frameless style we produce. Mere minutes with an edgebander vs this mess. To gain what? a vertical blockage between the doors?