LS130 abrasives help please!

[Dan Clark]

Hi.

With the upcoming price increase, I suddenly realized that the LS130 will be jumping a healthy 12% in price.  So, besides ordering a 2700 guide rail, I decided to order the LS130 plus some abrasives while I'm at it.  However, I'm not sure what to order.

My primary short term need will be removing old deck finish between the cedar boards on our deck.  I'm not particularly worried about the top (I'll rent a 10" sander for that) or the vertical section between the deck boards, but each board is rounded over.  So I want to sand that profile.  There is about 700 square feet of deck with about 6 lineal feet of round overs per square foot, that's something like 4200 lineal feet of round overs!  And there are also a bunch of railings, steps, and bench edges that need sanding too.   

The finish is a cedar tone wood finishing that has turned orange.  Some of it is pealing and rough.  A lot of has a lot of mold and mildew.  I'll get most of it off with a deck cleaner/stripper, but that will probably raise grain badly.  Unfortunately, that's a nice mold and mildew trap in this part of the country.  So, I'm hoping to smooth it some.

This pic below shows the mold and mildew and the rounded board edges.
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I'm thinking about using the LS130 with a custom profile that matches the board round overs.  And maybe one of the standard profiles for the railings.  The LS130 is the only thing I can think of.  But the key question is what abrasive?  One thing about the abrasive is that it would need to be fairly flexible to deal with the custom profile I need.  So... Cristal?  Brilliant2?  60?  80?  100?  Other? 

I need to decide and place an order before April 1.  I'd appreciate any help.

Thanks,

Dan.

p.s. when the had the decks rebuilt (from scratch) in about 2000, the idea of Cedar decks was very appealing.  After 8 years of maintenance, my opinion has changed significantly!    When it's clean it's gorgeous.  The rest of the time?    :'(

p.p.s. if you have any suggestions about a cedar deck finish that will last and be mold resistant, I'm all ears.

 

[mysterium]

Hi Dan,

I will use up to 40 grit if I'm removing a poly finish from hardwoods, or multiple layers of thick paint.  However my initial goal is "just" to remove the surface not the wood once the 40 grit breaks thru I switch to a finer grit.  But since cedar is very soft & I doubt you will be removing any real finish if the stripper does it's job effectively, I'd guess you'll be starting with an 80 grit & moving up from there...

A couple of points on this sander;  dust collection effectiveness varies significantly by how well the profile contacts the surface to be sanded.  So if you are only contacting a small part of the profile the effectiveness of  the dust collection is lower and the sand paper will load faster.  BUT since your contact area is small on the paper you can "move the paper on the profile" to use a "fresh surface" on the same sheet.  After you have "moved the paper on the profile" a number of times the used sheet will have stripes of used areas.  Usually with the Festool sanders the smaller the size of the sander the lower the suction on the CT 22 to keep it from "sticking" to the surface, but if the contact area on the profile is low turn up the suction to max.

The LS 130 is a great sander but with a different "feel" & sound because of the lineal motion.  Is this sander for everyone or ever need?  No but you will find that for many situations the LS 130 is the perfect "fit".  Would I buy it again?  "Yes" in fact I bought a second one 'cause of my years of "router logic"....  Router logic goes something like I need another router 'cause I don't like changing bits...  With that sound tried & true logic I now own something like 14 routers...  So with a pair of LS 130's I can have 2 profile mounted & switch between them via the Plug-it cord.

And Dan to "help you save more money...." before the price increase  :      the LS 130 shares the same sand paper as my favorite 'lil sander the RTS 400   

jim

 

[Dan Clark]

Jim,

Yes, that little tidbit hadn't escaped me.  Fortunately, the RTS 400 increased in price only $5.  Otherwise, I would probably jump all over it.  Thanks, though.  ;D

Dan.

 

[Corwin]

Hey Dan,

Well I was also going to point out the RTS 400 EQ as a great 'accessory' to the LS -- really, after getting a bunch of paper, the 400 looks almost cost effective (did I really say that?)  Best part, however, that little sander makes a great companion to the LS for the rest of that trim.  Last fall I was in the midst of repainting my exterior (and got a little on the house too), both of these sanders were in route and arrived at the perfect time.  Well, would have been perfect if I had been in the driveway at the time, rather than up a ladder.  Anyway, put both to use within minutes to find each served its own purpose well on the narrow trim.  They each handle different, so having both at hand worked well for me to switch between for the current task.  You may only be saving $5 this time around, but having her at your disposal is, well, priceless.

Oh, and that Cristal worked great to remove paint and rough patches.  I have Hardy on much of the exterior, but the builder used an awful material for most of the trim -- it was far to ruffed up compared to the other material.  These sanders made the job quick and the house trim looks better now than I could have hoped.  I just recently noticed that I now have two little spots in my paint job, but that sure wasn't the sanders fault. 

 

[Dan Clark]

Corwin,

Thanks.  I suspect that you're right about the sanders.  Having both of the little buggers handy would be worth it.  (My rationalizing is a bit weak this morning.  I need another cup of coffee.) 

It sounds like Cristal would be the right paper.  I understand that RTS400 will be a bit more aggressive than the LS130 with the same paper.  With that much deck surface, considering that Cedar is soft wood, and given that I'd like to combine fairly fast removal with a decent surface in one pass, what grit and for which sander?  60?  80?  100?

Thanks,

Dan.

 

[Brice Burrell]

  Not to get off topic, but another approach is to replace the cedar with a synthetic decking like Trex. Your mildew problem will come back no matter what you try to stop it. The Trex is not as pretty, but it will hold up to your environment much better. They do however offer a nicer looking decking now, check them out.  New Trex colors.

P.S. Buy the sander too, use it on the next project.  ;D

 

[Dan Clark]

Brice,

Knowing what I know now and if that had been available when the deck was built, I'd have done it in a heart beat.   

Unfortunately, with three decks (including the entry deck in front), the cost would be pretty steep.  One major issue is that the joist spacing is 16" and the current design has the decking on an angle.  This means that the effective joist spacing is something like 20-24 inches (I'd need to add joists).  Throw in about 40 lineal feet of benches and about 25 lineal feet of planters, and it would be extremely expensive to tear apart and rebuild.  :-[

Thanks anyway,

Dan.

 

[John Langevin]

Getting back to the LS130, how does the "make your own profile kit" work? Do you machine it or cast it?

 

[Ned]

Getting back to the LS130, how does the "make your own profile kit" work? Do you machine it or cast it?

Sort of "machine" it.  The unprofiled block is 40mm thick (> 1.5 inches).

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The kit comes with adhesive Velcro and Brilliant P 60 to adhere to the profile you want.  You then mount the unprofiled block on the LS130 and grind it under power, using the sandpaper-covered profile as a cutting tool.

After you've ground the profile into the block, you attach velcro to the block and drill the dust holes out (they're already cast in the block, but you need to make holes in the velcro).

Ned

 

[semenza]

Hi,

    Dan, you may well end up wanting the 60 or even 40 grit for stripping / material removal with the LS130.  I have not used it for this yet , and don't know your exact situation after the chemical stripping you plan to do. But the 130 is not aggressive and it may take the coarser grits to get the job done with any kind of speed. 
      I have attached a pic of Cristal  60 wrapped over the Convex 10mm radius profile. It was no trouble and I don't think you will have any problem putting it on the custom round over you are planning.  You can probably make the profile double sided so that it will do both round overs in the board gap at the same time. Sort of like the the one shown in th little round inset picture  p106 2007 US catalog.
    Your DC will be pretty good since a lot of the pad will actually end up on the surface.

 

[semenza]

Corwin,

Thanks.   I suspect that you're right about the sanders.  Having both of the little buggers handy would be worth it.  (My rationalizing is a bit weak this morning.  I need another cup of coffee.) 

It sounds like Cristal would be the right paper.  I understand that RTS400 will be a bit more aggressive than the LS130 with the same paper.   With that much deck surface, considering that Cedar is soft wood, and given that I'd like to combine fairly fast removal with a decent surface in one pass, what grit and for which sander?   60?  80?  100?

Thanks,

Dan.

Hi,

    With the LS130 you will  have trouble getting the removal you want and some smoothness in one pass.  Largley due to the linear motion. I find that it is not worth sanding in one spot much longer than it takes to see the scratch pattern show up. Because of the way it moves it tends to keep "scratching" in the same "grit lines". Believe it or not it is usually faster to go fairly quickly with several grits  than to try to get more removal with the same one.  I know that holds true to a certain extent with most sanders , but even more so on the 130. 
    If you are buying a bunch of abrasives before the price increase - get a good line up with very few skipped grits.   
            For the LS130 I am currently using  -
                                                    Cristal 60
                                                    Rubin 100
                                                    Rubin 120
                                                    Rubin 150
                                                    Brilliant 2 180
                                                    Brilliant 2 240
                                                    Brilliant 2 320
                                                    Brilliant 2 400

        If I end up doing some stripping with it I suspect that 40 and 80 Cristal will get added in.

 

[Corwin]

...  If I end up doing some stripping with it I suspect that 40 and 80 Cristal will get added in.

Yep, and you might like the 100 as well.

 

[Dan Clark]

Okee Dokee...

Here's my list of goodies that I want to order prior to the price increase (and to get everything in one order).  I have a decent selection of Rubin for my RO150, so I just some Cristal, Brilliant 2, and one pack of Platin for the Rotex. 

I tried to get a nice mix considering my needs.  For the boundary abrasives, I bought some smaller packs to try out.  Any last comments before I got into hock up to my neck?  :'( ;D

Thanks,

Dan.

----

Category	Qty	Part
Tool	1	3000mm Guide Rail
Tool	1	LS130
Tool	1	RTS400
Profile/Acc	1	LS130 Scraper
Profile/Acc	1	LS130 SSH-STF-LS130 Kit
Profile/Acc	1	LS130 Interface pad
Profile/Acc	1	LS130 18 mm concave pad
Profile/Acc	1	LS130 25 mm convex pad
Profile/Acc	1	LS130 6 mm concave pad
Profile/Acc	1	Sys 2 for abrasive storage
Rotex Abr	5	Cristal 40
Rotex Abr	50	Cristal 60
Rotex Abr	50	Cristal 80
Rotex Abr	5	Cristal 100
Rotex Abr	5	Cristal 120
Rotex Abr	5	Brilliant 2 120
Rotex Abr	5	Brilliant 2 180
Rotex Abr	100	Brilliant 2 240
Rotex Abr	100	Brilliant 2 320
Rotex Abr	100	Brilliant 2 400
Rotex Abr	15	Platin 500
LS130/RTS400 Abr	10	Cristal 40
LS130/RTS400 Abr	50	Cristal 60
LS130/RTS400 Abr	50	Cristal 80
LS130/RTS400 Abr	100	Cristal 100
LS130/RTS400 Abr	10	Cristal 120
LS130/RTS400 Abr	50	Rubin 120
LS130/RTS400 Abr	50	Rubin 150
LS130/RTS400 Abr	50	Rubin 180
LS130/RTS400 Abr	10	Brilliant 2 180
LS130/RTS400 Abr	100	Brilliant 2 240
LS130/RTS400 Abr	100	Brilliant 2 320
LS130/RTS400 Abr	100	Brilliant 2 400

 

[Corwin]

Oh, and you were just going to get a few things before the price went up?    Nice choices.

I already did the 'before the price increase' order.  Tomorrow the last two stragglers will be showing up, and already I am thinking I will need a few more things...  And, well, I guess now is the time.  So, now I best look over those 8mm shaft bits...  for starters.

 

[semenza]

Hi,

  Looks good , Dan.  But how about some more abrasives ;D

Seth

 

[Dan Clark]

Hi,

  Looks good , Dan.  But how about some more abrasives ;D

Seth

Seth,a

My apologies...  I'll go back and work on it!!!  ;D

Dan.