Mafell KSS 300
- Thread starter GhostFist
- Start date
jmbfestool
Member
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2009
- Messages
- 6,646
GhostFist said:
My mate has yet to let me have his mafel 55 to review fully. Should of tried to get it of him this weekend really but didn't see him.
Well as mentioned before the rial grip is a big dislike with mafel and trying to locate the mafel saw into the groove is a little more awkward compared to the TS55
Other dislikes I found was the depth stop adjustment very fidely and awkward to adjust quickly compared to the TS55 which is quick and easy.
The weight distribution on the mafel 55 is more to the front putting more strain on your wrist with one hand lifting and makes it more awkward to place it on the rail because it nose dives a lot more.
The dust extraction port at first I thought was better on the mafel than festool because it clicks into place as you rotate it to where you want and stays in place unlike festool TS55 as you all know the weight of the hose always rotates it back down which is annoying.
BUT after using it found that the mafel has made an error in the port design because no mater which way you turn it, it never actually points straight out or upwards it always points down slightly which is crap.
Not having a plug it lead was actually annoying I did miss that feature when using the mafel.
Often all sockets are used up and if I'm using my domino/sanders I could just remove the hose and lead from the TS55 and stick it on the domino. This also keeps the area cleaner cus your not having as many leads all over the floor.
After a short use these where the things I picked up on straight away with in the first 10mins of using the mafel.
Personally if you own some tools already i would get the festool TS55 R over the mafel.
Jmb
GhostFist
Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2010
- Messages
- 1,551
Ya full on review has taken a while hasn't it. My schedule right now, being on set, is a bit of a slower pace and quite frankly it's driving me bananas, but thats beside the point.
I think i've covered most of the major advantages to owning this saw. Mainly it's a very compact little multitasker, perfect for location work. It's a handheld sliding compound miter saw! Granted there are things you can do with a stationary miter saw that are a little more difficult with the 300 so it's not an out and out replacement but it's perfect for the situation where you don't want to set up an entire mitersaw station. Really good for quick dadoes and a great cross cut saw and it all fits in a sys 3! I promised pictures and video, but it's impossible for me to publish those while I'm on set, and I'm always on set. I am moving house soon as me and the Mrs. are parting ways, and I'm hoping for something I can set up shop in so hopefully then I can come through on my promises.
There is limitations to this saw, as with any tool, and I don't think it's for every carpenter, but it could be the perfect tool for you.
Appreciate your patience!
I think i've covered most of the major advantages to owning this saw. Mainly it's a very compact little multitasker, perfect for location work. It's a handheld sliding compound miter saw! Granted there are things you can do with a stationary miter saw that are a little more difficult with the 300 so it's not an out and out replacement but it's perfect for the situation where you don't want to set up an entire mitersaw station. Really good for quick dadoes and a great cross cut saw and it all fits in a sys 3! I promised pictures and video, but it's impossible for me to publish those while I'm on set, and I'm always on set. I am moving house soon as me and the Mrs. are parting ways, and I'm hoping for something I can set up shop in so hopefully then I can come through on my promises.
There is limitations to this saw, as with any tool, and I don't think it's for every carpenter, but it could be the perfect tool for you.
Appreciate your patience!
Jalvis
Member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2012
- Messages
- 348
JMB-
I already own the Mafell MT55 due to the features offered that festool doesn't have.....although the TS 55 R has closed that gap slightly but availability in the US isn't any time soon. Not having a stronger motor in the Festool is a big negative and was a large motivator for the Mafell.
The KSS 300 would be a great tool for site work. I was installing windows the other day and was cutting the siding around the old windows with a circular saw. Having the KSS 300 with a vac connected would have been great! Using a heavy circular saw overhead with that toxic dust all over is miserable. Also having a lighter tool in hand would make a big difference as well as the overall size when cutting near the soffit and the top of the window.
I already own the Mafell MT55 due to the features offered that festool doesn't have.....although the TS 55 R has closed that gap slightly but availability in the US isn't any time soon. Not having a stronger motor in the Festool is a big negative and was a large motivator for the Mafell.
The KSS 300 would be a great tool for site work. I was installing windows the other day and was cutting the siding around the old windows with a circular saw. Having the KSS 300 with a vac connected would have been great! Using a heavy circular saw overhead with that toxic dust all over is miserable. Also having a lighter tool in hand would make a big difference as well as the overall size when cutting near the soffit and the top of the window.
jonathan-m
Member
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2012
- Messages
- 329
pingvinlakrits
Member
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2007
- Messages
- 1,093
Hello,
just wanted to chime in with my long term user experience of the KSS300.
I have the kit with the Flexirail in the Sys III. Also, I bought a short Mafell 800mm fixed rail for it, which most people assume that the KSS300 won't fit, but it does. You will lose a few mm in cutting depth vs the Flexirail though.
I have been doing a long term project building a fairly large recording studio and the KSS300 has been around the whole project. Since I had the TS55 with rails up to 3000mm on site the KSS300 has been on stand by for the most part.
However when it came down to flooring and breaking down sheet goods the KSS300 has proved its worth both on and off the rail as well as for plunge cuts in roof panels for lighting installations. Very versatile and I got comfortable doing plunge cuts with it and even did a few sans rail, which all worked fine. For flooring it has been a godsend to be able to cut down the 14mm massive oak flooring just using the short rails, including angled cuts, on top of the Festool vac.
The Flexirail works fine, and in some instances great. However on 600mm panels the Flexirail is just a little too long so you have to slide it back a little and balance it before committing to the cut or else you can't line up the rail to the end markings as the Flexirail bulges. I didn't bring the short rail so it was my own fault. I wish I had the guts to cut down a Flexirail to around 850mm for those cuts as 600mm width goods are common over here. For longer cuts (longer than the Flexiral allows) the Flexirail works fine but it can be a little cumbersome if space is cramped. The quality of cut is very fine but the precision takes a slight beating when you have to cut really long pieces. In my case the level of precision is still more than good enough but if I were to cut down a panel to strips the accumulative error might have been a problem.
Another problem is "handymen" borrowing the Mafell and failing to line up the saw properly on the Flexirail cutting INTO THE RAIL [eek] making a dent in the rail and forcing me to replace the cutting strip. There was no replacement Mafell (red) strip readily available so I had to replace it with the Festool transparent cutting strip. I was concerned that the Festool strip would not stay put on the steel Flexirail when folded but leaving it to cure overnight I had no problems (also, I thoroughly removed old strip residue and cleansed the Flexirail prior to replacement). It seems to stay on and except for the customer having to pay for a new saw blade and the replacement strip all is in working order. The Handyman is banned from using the KSS300 though, for life.
The problem for him and one of the few nitpicks I have with the KSS300 is that the blade keeps turning for quite a while since there is no engine/blade brake on the saw. You have to be a little patient after each cut and allow for the blade to come to a full stop when using the Flexirail.
When using the short track you can just slide out after the cut and tilt it away with the blade running. After many cuts the blade guard got stuck so I needed to clean and check that after almost putting the saw down with the blade (slowly, but still) running. I use a small piece of OSB/Plywood when flooring so I always put the saw down on that anyway, but a potential hazard it is.
Also, I replaced the a/c cord with a Festool Plug-In connector, which works like a charm.
Another nitpick is that you need both hands before doing a plunge cut. If you want to cut a hole in a board and you have carefully laid out the Flexirail you can't keep one hand on the rail but have to use both hands to release the blade guard and mount the saw on the rail. It is a little awkward and takes a little longer than on a fixed rail. Also, you can easily have the saw pop out of the guide ridges when placing it down whilst working the blade guard so that is cause for concern, it would be sad to start plunging slightly into the rail [scared] when you think you are good to go.
All in all I am very pleased with it and have done a whole kitchen with panels, flooring and cutting a 38mm oak bench top using only the KSS300, though the 38mm was at the very limit of how deep a cut I could make with the Flexirail. Cutting thinner panels with the short track freehand can cause blade binding if you are not careful with how you press the short track against the panel, it easily deflects a little under pressure but after a while you get used to it and can counter that. I wish it would be more stable though.
I don't know if pictures would make anyone happy, but I might be able to rustle up some.
/ Henrik
just wanted to chime in with my long term user experience of the KSS300.
I have the kit with the Flexirail in the Sys III. Also, I bought a short Mafell 800mm fixed rail for it, which most people assume that the KSS300 won't fit, but it does. You will lose a few mm in cutting depth vs the Flexirail though.
I have been doing a long term project building a fairly large recording studio and the KSS300 has been around the whole project. Since I had the TS55 with rails up to 3000mm on site the KSS300 has been on stand by for the most part.
However when it came down to flooring and breaking down sheet goods the KSS300 has proved its worth both on and off the rail as well as for plunge cuts in roof panels for lighting installations. Very versatile and I got comfortable doing plunge cuts with it and even did a few sans rail, which all worked fine. For flooring it has been a godsend to be able to cut down the 14mm massive oak flooring just using the short rails, including angled cuts, on top of the Festool vac.
The Flexirail works fine, and in some instances great. However on 600mm panels the Flexirail is just a little too long so you have to slide it back a little and balance it before committing to the cut or else you can't line up the rail to the end markings as the Flexirail bulges. I didn't bring the short rail so it was my own fault. I wish I had the guts to cut down a Flexirail to around 850mm for those cuts as 600mm width goods are common over here. For longer cuts (longer than the Flexiral allows) the Flexirail works fine but it can be a little cumbersome if space is cramped. The quality of cut is very fine but the precision takes a slight beating when you have to cut really long pieces. In my case the level of precision is still more than good enough but if I were to cut down a panel to strips the accumulative error might have been a problem.
Another problem is "handymen" borrowing the Mafell and failing to line up the saw properly on the Flexirail cutting INTO THE RAIL [eek] making a dent in the rail and forcing me to replace the cutting strip. There was no replacement Mafell (red) strip readily available so I had to replace it with the Festool transparent cutting strip. I was concerned that the Festool strip would not stay put on the steel Flexirail when folded but leaving it to cure overnight I had no problems (also, I thoroughly removed old strip residue and cleansed the Flexirail prior to replacement). It seems to stay on and except for the customer having to pay for a new saw blade and the replacement strip all is in working order. The Handyman is banned from using the KSS300 though, for life.
The problem for him and one of the few nitpicks I have with the KSS300 is that the blade keeps turning for quite a while since there is no engine/blade brake on the saw. You have to be a little patient after each cut and allow for the blade to come to a full stop when using the Flexirail.
When using the short track you can just slide out after the cut and tilt it away with the blade running. After many cuts the blade guard got stuck so I needed to clean and check that after almost putting the saw down with the blade (slowly, but still) running. I use a small piece of OSB/Plywood when flooring so I always put the saw down on that anyway, but a potential hazard it is.
Also, I replaced the a/c cord with a Festool Plug-In connector, which works like a charm.
Another nitpick is that you need both hands before doing a plunge cut. If you want to cut a hole in a board and you have carefully laid out the Flexirail you can't keep one hand on the rail but have to use both hands to release the blade guard and mount the saw on the rail. It is a little awkward and takes a little longer than on a fixed rail. Also, you can easily have the saw pop out of the guide ridges when placing it down whilst working the blade guard so that is cause for concern, it would be sad to start plunging slightly into the rail [scared] when you think you are good to go.
All in all I am very pleased with it and have done a whole kitchen with panels, flooring and cutting a 38mm oak bench top using only the KSS300, though the 38mm was at the very limit of how deep a cut I could make with the Flexirail. Cutting thinner panels with the short track freehand can cause blade binding if you are not careful with how you press the short track against the panel, it easily deflects a little under pressure but after a while you get used to it and can counter that. I wish it would be more stable though.
I don't know if pictures would make anyone happy, but I might be able to rustle up some.
/ Henrik
Thanks guys for the reviews. I have been reading with great interest, the KSS300 is something I'd love to have. Ghostfist, any changes or dislikes since you've had it a while longer. And did you ever consider the KSS400? Is it simply depth of cut that is different? And finally do you think this could replace a typical circular saw for everyday construction/remodeling (Canadian style [tongue])
Henrik, by 800mm fixed rail do you mean simply a standard rail? Is there a longer "cross-cut" rail attachment available?
Thanks again guys any info is appreciated especially as info is hard to come by with such a "rare" tool.
Henrik, by 800mm fixed rail do you mean simply a standard rail? Is there a longer "cross-cut" rail attachment available?
Thanks again guys any info is appreciated especially as info is hard to come by with such a "rare" tool.
GhostFist
Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2010
- Messages
- 1,551
I did consider the 400 however portability and the roll up cross cut rail are what sold me on the 300. As an all around general carpenters saw, particularly if you do a lot of framing, I'd say go for the 400. The increased depth and power is what you really need for cutting 2X. it's angle fence also has a larger capacity, plus it's compatible with standard Mafell rails so you could use it similar to a regular plunge saw like the ts55 or the MT55. Note the plunge action is very different to that of the Festool or the Mt55 for finer work I would consider one of these.
The Kss 300 is best suited for material up to 1 1/4" thick. You can cut 1 1/2" material but only just. As far as a complete replacement for a SCMS, you're going to be more efficient with repeated cuts on a dedicated miter saw station as well as cutting crown molding or detailed trim. This saw is a space saver on your truck and on the jobsite. It's incredibly versatile for it's size and weight and excels with sheet goods and flooring. If i did more framing and reno I would have bought the larger 400 for the reasons stated above, the package remains compact for what it can do, it's just that working in film, we're using sheet goods and 1x3 stock for the vast majority of our construction.
Hope that helps.
Is there a specific job you have in mind when considering these saws?
The Kss 300 is best suited for material up to 1 1/4" thick. You can cut 1 1/2" material but only just. As far as a complete replacement for a SCMS, you're going to be more efficient with repeated cuts on a dedicated miter saw station as well as cutting crown molding or detailed trim. This saw is a space saver on your truck and on the jobsite. It's incredibly versatile for it's size and weight and excels with sheet goods and flooring. If i did more framing and reno I would have bought the larger 400 for the reasons stated above, the package remains compact for what it can do, it's just that working in film, we're using sheet goods and 1x3 stock for the vast majority of our construction.
Hope that helps.
Is there a specific job you have in mind when considering these saws?
Thanks Ghostfist,
The problem is that I dont have a specific task in mind, more trying to see if i can do it all with one. Which often doesnt work that well [embarassed]
Doing renos there are many different tasks which can be annoying as you need to have so many tools.
Does the KSS 400 not come in a systainer with an optional flexi rail? hmm that is a lot less enticing. I know what you mean about having tools that are easy to transport and able to do multiple tasks.
Thanks and feel free to update or add any more comments or observations it's appreciated!
Also do you own a TS55? Any significant advantages you feel it has over using the KSS for the same tasks (sheet goods typically I suppose)?
The problem is that I dont have a specific task in mind, more trying to see if i can do it all with one. Which often doesnt work that well [embarassed]
Doing renos there are many different tasks which can be annoying as you need to have so many tools.
Does the KSS 400 not come in a systainer with an optional flexi rail? hmm that is a lot less enticing. I know what you mean about having tools that are easy to transport and able to do multiple tasks.
Thanks and feel free to update or add any more comments or observations it's appreciated!
Also do you own a TS55? Any significant advantages you feel it has over using the KSS for the same tasks (sheet goods typically I suppose)?
Bob Gerritsen
Member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2012
- Messages
- 241
Just got the Mafell last week, played with it a bit and I am thoroughly pleased. The engineering is very impressive, consider someone explaining the concept to you for the first time without pics and you would probably think this to be too complex or too expensive or just too flawed to be any good. Yet, when you open the box and take it out you cannot help but smile and for good reason. I think the quality is really good and all works smoothly indeed.
For me the main reason for getting it is the ease of setup. Before I felt really reluctant to get the trusty TS55 and rail out and make room for it on site. You need a certain amount of room for the rail when cutting and when packing up and having to use the stairs or elevator the rail is always the odd one out. It isn't compact like a systainer and usually you cannot combine it with something else but need to you hold it in one hand. I have even improvised with hand saws and a plane for cleaning up because of the reluctance to get the TS55 and set it up. Nowadays the mafell is already there and for up to 30cm cuts it needs almost no room. The fold able rail indeed folds up to a wall when needed. Plus, when packing up, the mafell setup fits completely in the systainer and the only limit to how much you can carry is your muscle and back. Mind you, it's different if you only work in houses under construction and have plenty room to get in and setup but I have to consider furniture in cramped rooms. It is perfect for that indeed.
For most jobs, say 90%, I try to always have all the tools I need in the van. With the mafell that 'van setup' is complete. This saw lives in the van now, the TS55 and Kapex stay at the shop unless I have something big or know I'll need them and it is worth the effort. So no more thinking about what I have to take with me, I close the shop and go. When I come back it's the same thing. I leave the van tools in the van and find the TS55 setup and ready to get to work in the shop. I'm loving this setup a lot! It saves me schlepping the Kapex most of the time and it is a joy to use as it is.
The saw is extremely versatile, very well made and comfortably light to transport and unless you mostly saw stuff thicker than it can handle I cannot see reason for disappointment. It might not be able to 100% of the jobs but when 3/4 inch sheets are your main material it will serve you well.
Cheers, Bob.
For me the main reason for getting it is the ease of setup. Before I felt really reluctant to get the trusty TS55 and rail out and make room for it on site. You need a certain amount of room for the rail when cutting and when packing up and having to use the stairs or elevator the rail is always the odd one out. It isn't compact like a systainer and usually you cannot combine it with something else but need to you hold it in one hand. I have even improvised with hand saws and a plane for cleaning up because of the reluctance to get the TS55 and set it up. Nowadays the mafell is already there and for up to 30cm cuts it needs almost no room. The fold able rail indeed folds up to a wall when needed. Plus, when packing up, the mafell setup fits completely in the systainer and the only limit to how much you can carry is your muscle and back.
Mind you, it's different if you only work in houses under construction and have plenty room to get in and setup but I have to consider furniture in cramped rooms. It is perfect for that indeed.For most jobs, say 90%, I try to always have all the tools I need in the van. With the mafell that 'van setup' is complete. This saw lives in the van now, the TS55 and Kapex stay at the shop unless I have something big or know I'll need them and it is worth the effort. So no more thinking about what I have to take with me, I close the shop and go. When I come back it's the same thing. I leave the van tools in the van and find the TS55 setup and ready to get to work in the shop. I'm loving this setup a lot! It saves me schlepping the Kapex most of the time and it is a joy to use as it is.
The saw is extremely versatile, very well made and comfortably light to transport and unless you mostly saw stuff thicker than it can handle I cannot see reason for disappointment. It might not be able to 100% of the jobs but when 3/4 inch sheets are your main material it will serve you well.
Cheers, Bob.
nehardwoodfloors
Member
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2010
- Messages
- 296
If the cost would come down by $1-200 it would be all mine!
Almost $900 [eek]
http://www.timberwolftools.com/tools/mafell/MAF-KSS300.html
Almost $900 [eek]
http://www.timberwolftools.com/tools/mafell/MAF-KSS300.html
GhostFist
Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2010
- Messages
- 1,551
Kapp-Sägesystem KSS 400
the end of this video you can see the case that comes with the kss 400. Still fairly compact for what it does, note it does not come with a flexi rail and I'm unsure if there is room for the flex rail in the case, however in the following video from timberwolf tools he claims that the flex rail is indeed compatible.
Mafell KSS400
Not the flex rails capacity for cutting is just over 4'
And here is a more detailed look at the 300 with some footage of the 400 at the end
Mafell KSS300 120mm Blade Cross-Cutting System
the end of this video you can see the case that comes with the kss 400. Still fairly compact for what it does, note it does not come with a flexi rail and I'm unsure if there is room for the flex rail in the case, however in the following video from timberwolf tools he claims that the flex rail is indeed compatible.
Mafell KSS400
Not the flex rails capacity for cutting is just over 4'
And here is a more detailed look at the 300 with some footage of the 400 at the end
Mafell KSS300 120mm Blade Cross-Cutting System
GhostFist
Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2010
- Messages
- 1,551
Dogwood, I also suggest you contact LAndhaus in alberta. They are the Canadian distributer for mafell products. Leonard there is extremely helpfull and is a super awesome guy to boot. Fantastic if not incredible customer service! I can dig up his info for you if you're interested. he's not the type of guy to sell you something you don't need.
Bob Gerritsen
Member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2012
- Messages
- 241
Had a job in a basement today where I had to cut some melamine. It had to be a proper cut and all I had was the factory blade. I forgot to order a melamine blade, have one of those for the TS55 and that works great. The factory blade of the Mafell however made an ok cut in one go and a superb cut when I went over twice, ones at a couple mm and then all through. So, FYI, the standard blade is quite nice, not sure for how long but I'm postponing getting a special blade for the moment.
GhostFist
Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2010
- Messages
- 1,551
Don't know if you've had the need yet or not but it's great for quick dadoes and rebates. What's normally a bit of time tinkering with any other tool can be done fast on the KSS. Of course for a lot of repeat cuts setting up a router or dado blade is a preferred method. But for fast one off joints the KSS is a treat.
Bob Gerritsen
Member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2012
- Messages
- 241
GhostFist said:
Right, had something like that last Friday. Made a small cabinet to cover an Internet router and such under a flat screen in a shop. It needed some holes for wires on three sides in total. As the cabinet had no back I could use the kss to make those 'holes' from the back, it worked like a charm. With a couple cuts set at 8mm depth I had what I needed.
Similar threads
