gee. a page of posts and no link? Here you go:
https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell
https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell
Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
- Thread starter lshah72414
- Start date
lshah72414 said:
Even if the 8.0 amp batteries are too big I think it ships with 5.0 amp (or possibly 5.2) so those will work. It is great that Metabo and others creating some type of battery agreement between manufacturers. I realize there may be cases where customized battery sizes are better, but for larger tools I don't think it makes a difference. Other than Mafell and Metabo I don't know of other manufacturers that sell tools in the US.
Cheese said:lshah72414 said:
Thanksfor that info...I was stunned at the prices for the Mafell batteries, something like $265 each...the charger was reasonable at $80+. You’re right I could use Festool rails but I’ve always read that Mafell rails are the creme de la creme of guide rails. Besides my P1 cc needs something to ride on. And to further complicate matters, I’d really like to own the AeroFix rail for cutting in HVAC vents.
The rails are definitely better and it is a compromise to not use the FT ones instead unless you already own them.
Just wanted to share ..
I spoke to Jeff @ Timberwolf. Sale is on till end of Sept.https://www.timberwolftools.com/blo...ordable-for-carpenters-who-always-wanted-one/
"Mafell has agreed to offer the following SUMMER SALE PRICES to our customers starting now through September 2019".
Picked up their Jig Saw the P1CC. So many people swear by it. Will provide a feedback after I get it.
I spoke to Jeff @ Timberwolf. Sale is on till end of Sept.https://www.timberwolftools.com/blo...ordable-for-carpenters-who-always-wanted-one/
"Mafell has agreed to offer the following SUMMER SALE PRICES to our customers starting now through September 2019".
Picked up their Jig Saw the P1CC. So many people swear by it. Will provide a feedback after I get it.
.. And BTW the MT55cc has been recently upgraded to a "Powerful 13.5 amp CUprex Compact motor" - which makes it more powerful than the TS75 (?? ). I believe there is a piece of plastic that can be removed and it can ride on the Festool Track. Cutting depth is 2", which I thought is plenty! And these can also be used on the Bosch track which are 50% cheaper than the Mafell tack.
Thoughts??
Thoughts??
I ordered a P1CC and MT55CC. I didnt know their track saw was updated with a more powerful motor, but lack of power is one issue that occasionally arises with my TS55, so I'm looking forward to trying it out. Same with quicker blade changes, better tracks, and bevel settings. The TS55 allows me to do a lot of things I previously couldn't, and I prefer it to the Makita and Dewalt, but from reviews I expect the Mafell will suit me a bit better. We'll see!
chrisrosenb
Member
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2007
- Messages
- 1,265
Am I wrong, does the Mafell MT55cc not have a riving knife like the Festool TS55? That is a deal breaker for me if it does not.
PRESS RELEASE
Safer sawing without a riving knife
MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw with kick-back protection
In its new MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw, MAFELL has combined the benefits of enhanced active safety, improved handling and enhanced cut quality – without a riving knife. According to the manufacturer, active kick-back protection averts the danger of recoil when the blade enters the work more effectively than a riving knife. In addition, design measures introduced alongside standard EN 60745-2-5, which entered force in 2007, have increased the passive safety of saws that dispense with a riving knife.
Especially when entering the workpiece, the blade of conventional plunge-cut saws can easily jam and thus cause a kick-back. The MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw significantly reduces the likelihood of this effect occurring. Thanks to the CUprex Compact motor driving the sawblade at a maximum of 6,200 rpm, the cutting speed is 20 per cent higher than usual. The teeth of the carbide-tipped sawblade thus remove less stock per revolution, which appreciably reduces the risk of jamming.
The probability of a kick-back arising from sawblade jamming is much lower while sawing is in progress as well. The high speed enables the blade to cut itself free more effectively. Additional safety is afforded by the automatic isolation of the power supply to the motor if the blade jams.
"The active kick-back protection provided by the high speed and automatic power supply interruption offers greater safety than a riving knife, which does not protect against the kick-back effect when the blade enters the work and can be a nuisance for the tradesman," comments Ralf Kohler, head of sales and marketing at MAFELL. Josef Riederer, a tradesman of Unterneuhausen, vindicates the manager's claim, "I feel safe when working with the MT 55 cc."
The passive safety of the MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw is also enhanced by the strict provisions of EN 60745-2-5 for saws without a riving knife. In the event of a kick-back, the standard requires that the sawblade fully retracts inside its housing within just 0.3 seconds. In compliance with the standard's provisions, MAFELL tested this safety feature more than 50,000 times.
Dispensing with a riving knife makes the saw much easier to use. When changing the sawblade, for example, it is no longer necessary to change the riving knife according to the blade thickness and adjust it to suit the blade diameter. This not only accelerates the blade changing operation, but also reduces the workload when working with a variety of materials. Tradesmen are also delighted that the absence of a riving knife protects sensitive surfaces against the risk of scratch marks.
Safer sawing without a riving knife
MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw with kick-back protection
In its new MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw, MAFELL has combined the benefits of enhanced active safety, improved handling and enhanced cut quality – without a riving knife. According to the manufacturer, active kick-back protection averts the danger of recoil when the blade enters the work more effectively than a riving knife. In addition, design measures introduced alongside standard EN 60745-2-5, which entered force in 2007, have increased the passive safety of saws that dispense with a riving knife.
Especially when entering the workpiece, the blade of conventional plunge-cut saws can easily jam and thus cause a kick-back. The MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw significantly reduces the likelihood of this effect occurring. Thanks to the CUprex Compact motor driving the sawblade at a maximum of 6,200 rpm, the cutting speed is 20 per cent higher than usual. The teeth of the carbide-tipped sawblade thus remove less stock per revolution, which appreciably reduces the risk of jamming.
The probability of a kick-back arising from sawblade jamming is much lower while sawing is in progress as well. The high speed enables the blade to cut itself free more effectively. Additional safety is afforded by the automatic isolation of the power supply to the motor if the blade jams.
"The active kick-back protection provided by the high speed and automatic power supply interruption offers greater safety than a riving knife, which does not protect against the kick-back effect when the blade enters the work and can be a nuisance for the tradesman," comments Ralf Kohler, head of sales and marketing at MAFELL. Josef Riederer, a tradesman of Unterneuhausen, vindicates the manager's claim, "I feel safe when working with the MT 55 cc."
The passive safety of the MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw is also enhanced by the strict provisions of EN 60745-2-5 for saws without a riving knife. In the event of a kick-back, the standard requires that the sawblade fully retracts inside its housing within just 0.3 seconds. In compliance with the standard's provisions, MAFELL tested this safety feature more than 50,000 times.
Dispensing with a riving knife makes the saw much easier to use. When changing the sawblade, for example, it is no longer necessary to change the riving knife according to the blade thickness and adjust it to suit the blade diameter. This not only accelerates the blade changing operation, but also reduces the workload when working with a variety of materials. Tradesmen are also delighted that the absence of a riving knife protects sensitive surfaces against the risk of scratch marks.
Kodi Crescent
Member
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2010
- Messages
- 791
With regards to the MT55 and batteries, see the KSS40 18M package deal for $999. It comes with 2 batteries, a charger, and the Flexi-rail for $185 more than the bare tool without the Flexi-rail.
I figure that if you want to go cordless, get the KSS40 18M package and the MT55 cordless. That's how I'd do it if I had the dough. Maybe I'll do it even though I don't have it.
As far as the MT55 vs. the TS 55 - I have both. I don't touch the TS55 any longer. A cordless MT55 would be even better!
In my opinion, the MT55 with the dust bag extracts the dust as well as the TS55 and the extractor.
The P1CC is terrific! The price of it, and the MT55 are a steal in comparison to regular Mafell prices.
Although Festool has more accessories, many of those accessories are to make up for shortcomings within the Festool system. Festool is great at nickel-diming you to death, either through their own accessories or through aftermarket ones. (Notice that no other tool brand has a cottage industry of accessory makers building accessories to overcome product shortcomings.)
The Mafell stuff just works. No accessories needed. I may sell all my Festool stuff and replace it with Mafell. Who needs all that extra stuff when you can have a tool that just works as intended?
I figure that if you want to go cordless, get the KSS40 18M package and the MT55 cordless. That's how I'd do it if I had the dough. Maybe I'll do it even though I don't have it.
As far as the MT55 vs. the TS 55 - I have both. I don't touch the TS55 any longer. A cordless MT55 would be even better!
In my opinion, the MT55 with the dust bag extracts the dust as well as the TS55 and the extractor.
The P1CC is terrific! The price of it, and the MT55 are a steal in comparison to regular Mafell prices.
Although Festool has more accessories, many of those accessories are to make up for shortcomings within the Festool system. Festool is great at nickel-diming you to death, either through their own accessories or through aftermarket ones. (Notice that no other tool brand has a cottage industry of accessory makers building accessories to overcome product shortcomings.)
The Mafell stuff just works. No accessories needed. I may sell all my Festool stuff and replace it with Mafell. Who needs all that extra stuff when you can have a tool that just works as intended?
Cheese
Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2015
- Messages
- 12,528
As far as kick back goes, both my TS & TSC 55 have done so on probably a half dozen occasions. Not a big deal but I was quite surprised given the fact that the riving knife is so highly applauded.
So my take-away is the riving knife is helpful 50% of the time but another aid would be more helpful the other 50%. I think the increased blade speed of the Mafell may be the answer.
So my take-away is the riving knife is helpful 50% of the time but another aid would be more helpful the other 50%. I think the increased blade speed of the Mafell may be the answer.
Jiggy Joiner
Member
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2018
- Messages
- 1,103
[member=8843]Kodi Crescent[/member]
I agree with most of what your post says. It’s been my belief for many many years, the Mafell make the best power tools money can buy but, at probably the highest price tag.
The tools are very well designed with form and function in mind, they seem to include little touches that get overlooked by other manufacturers.
If I just worked on my own, I would have kitted myself out with Mafell years ago but, I don’t. So the tools I buy are used professionally and by various people I employ. So financially not viable, although I own a few Mafell tools now but, they are for my personal use.
The main differences between Festool and Mafell apart from price, are as you say, Mafell do not have as many accessories, nor do they need them.
The other thing to bear in mind is Mafell is designed primarily with the professional user in mind.
Festool seem to cater for all kinds, professional, hobbyist, and DIY.
Lamello although only making a limited range of tools, are also very much a premium brand, with a price tag to match, and aimed more at professional use.
I often wonder if expensive tools are really worth their price, then get to use or buy that tool, and realise they probably are. Then you see another tool that cost a third of the price but, still does the job?
I have been mulling over buying an Erika 85 for quite some time, as in my opinion it’s the best portable table saw out there, with a big price. I am wondering if I could get similar precision with a cheaper saw, and from what I’ve seen recently, I could.
So I guess it’s down to what somebody, professional, hobbyist, DIY or otherwise is willing to pay?
I agree with most of what your post says. It’s been my belief for many many years, the Mafell make the best power tools money can buy but, at probably the highest price tag.
The tools are very well designed with form and function in mind, they seem to include little touches that get overlooked by other manufacturers.
If I just worked on my own, I would have kitted myself out with Mafell years ago but, I don’t. So the tools I buy are used professionally and by various people I employ. So financially not viable, although I own a few Mafell tools now but, they are for my personal use.
The main differences between Festool and Mafell apart from price, are as you say, Mafell do not have as many accessories, nor do they need them.
The other thing to bear in mind is Mafell is designed primarily with the professional user in mind.
Festool seem to cater for all kinds, professional, hobbyist, and DIY.
Lamello although only making a limited range of tools, are also very much a premium brand, with a price tag to match, and aimed more at professional use.
I often wonder if expensive tools are really worth their price, then get to use or buy that tool, and realise they probably are. Then you see another tool that cost a third of the price but, still does the job?
I have been mulling over buying an Erika 85 for quite some time, as in my opinion it’s the best portable table saw out there, with a big price. I am wondering if I could get similar precision with a cheaper saw, and from what I’ve seen recently, I could.
So I guess it’s down to what somebody, professional, hobbyist, DIY or otherwise is willing to pay?
Kodi Crescent
Member
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2010
- Messages
- 791
Cheese said:
I had my MT55 kickback once. Cut a nice chunk out of the brand new rail I was using. I cut that part off and now have a shorter rail.
I was cutting a piece of material where there was a large waste piece overhanging the edge of the workbench, unsupported. Nearing the end of the cut, the unsupported portion twisted and closed the kerf, grabbing the blade. The saw jumped off the track, slicing the track. I learned not to do that again. Now I support the off cut or place shims behind the saw while cutting. I haven't had it happen again.
Cheese
Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2015
- Messages
- 12,528
Jiggy Joiner said:
That's certainly been my experience with the P1 cc. Way too many "little touches" to discuss here lest I start to sound like an infomercial. They even go to lengths to arrange the Systainer so that optional items will still fit inside the Sys 1.
I'll post a photo later
In terms of the nickel and diming and the aftermarket accessories, I think that perception may be a little colored. If you look at it the other way, Mafell may give you a circle cutting jig but the price of the saw is higher. Festool offers it as an added option but the price of the saw is lower. If you don't need it, you have an option to omit with Festool.
Regarding the aftermarket accessories, first, Festool offers a broader variety of tools and other workshop items than Mafell. Their larger presence and service in the US also appeal to a larger audience. It's that audience I believe encourages the cottage industry of aftermarket accessories, not necessarily some inherent weakness. In some instances, Mafell would benefit from these as well, but for all purposes, there aren't enough potential users of the platform to justify the development of the products. Take an 90 degree rail square such as that offered by TSO. Mafell users would benefit from it just as much as Festool users. It's not an inherent weakness in the tool, just a different way to use it.
One more point regarding the KSS40 batteries. It seems they are 94 watt hour batteries vs. 99 watt hour batteries with the MT55 kit. Obviously the capacity difference is marginal, however, there may be other changes to the battery, such as higher discharge rates, that make one battery more suitable for the MT55. I don't know, I just noticed that difference when scrutinizing the pricing differences, but since I'm not in the market for either one, I didn't dig deeper. If you're thinking about going down this road it might be worth asking a few more questions before taking the leap.
Regarding the aftermarket accessories, first, Festool offers a broader variety of tools and other workshop items than Mafell. Their larger presence and service in the US also appeal to a larger audience. It's that audience I believe encourages the cottage industry of aftermarket accessories, not necessarily some inherent weakness. In some instances, Mafell would benefit from these as well, but for all purposes, there aren't enough potential users of the platform to justify the development of the products. Take an 90 degree rail square such as that offered by TSO. Mafell users would benefit from it just as much as Festool users. It's not an inherent weakness in the tool, just a different way to use it.
One more point regarding the KSS40 batteries. It seems they are 94 watt hour batteries vs. 99 watt hour batteries with the MT55 kit. Obviously the capacity difference is marginal, however, there may be other changes to the battery, such as higher discharge rates, that make one battery more suitable for the MT55. I don't know, I just noticed that difference when scrutinizing the pricing differences, but since I'm not in the market for either one, I didn't dig deeper. If you're thinking about going down this road it might be worth asking a few more questions before taking the leap.
Jiggy Joiner
Member
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2018
- Messages
- 1,103
Cheese said:
Yeah I know exactly what you’re saying Cheese, they seem to leave no stone unturned with development and design. My MT55 has some great touches, one that comes to mind is the bevel lock, it only has one lock at the front. Well it does have front and rear but, the rear is operated simultaneously with the front.
If money was no object, my workshop would be Mafell and Lamello apart from the large machinery.
Michael Kellough
Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2007
- Messages
- 7,101
Kodi Crescent said:
I don’t think the KSS 40 package includes the Flexi-rail. It’s shown in the box but not included in the list. Hope I’m wrong...
The batteries are the previous generation 5.2Ah. The new LiHD batteries are 5.4Ah.
The P1CC has arrived today. Yet to open the box.
Even though I have the TS75 (never liked the 55), I am tempted to get the MT55 with chord (more power) and I don't have to deal with battery and my existing vac will turn on without stupid Bluetooth. Might just end up selling the TS75 (I do lose 3/4" cut capacity. I think I can live with that). It's about 3 lbs lighter. As you all mention, there are so many small design features that make it desirable. The real reason I am thinking about it is they increased the capacity 13.5A motor!
I believe the battery powered tools certainly have their place for example the impact or drill. But I am on the fence when it comes to a track saw!! I could be wrong but the kss40 with the battery makes sense. You could be on the roof or laying floors and you have the tool right there to make the cut with no dust. Its small and easy to imagine the use as a portable tool. Not so much the MT55 18M.
My slide down the Festool slippery slope was the domino (no regrets there). With Mafell its the P1CC. I think in the end its going to be a mixture of tools that makes the most sense (not brand loyal). I think this is where platform and marketing comes into play. Let's see how it goes.
My need is simple: The darn tool should work (apparently I heard Jeff say that the brushes on the Mafell tools last 25yrs! MT55 is not brushless). The ergonomics of design and convenience matters a lot. When you amortize the cost of the tool over the lifespan - its very marginal (as the saying goes "I am not rich enough to buy cheap"), I'd rather drive a Merc from day 1 knowing that in 20 yrs its cheaper to drive the Merc than a Corolla?
In the end what we do with the tool is more important than the tool itself
.
Even though I have the TS75 (never liked the 55), I am tempted to get the MT55 with chord (more power) and I don't have to deal with battery and my existing vac will turn on without stupid Bluetooth. Might just end up selling the TS75 (I do lose 3/4" cut capacity. I think I can live with that). It's about 3 lbs lighter. As you all mention, there are so many small design features that make it desirable. The real reason I am thinking about it is they increased the capacity 13.5A motor!
I believe the battery powered tools certainly have their place for example the impact or drill. But I am on the fence when it comes to a track saw!! I could be wrong but the kss40 with the battery makes sense. You could be on the roof or laying floors and you have the tool right there to make the cut with no dust. Its small and easy to imagine the use as a portable tool. Not so much the MT55 18M.
My slide down the Festool slippery slope was the domino (no regrets there). With Mafell its the P1CC. I think in the end its going to be a mixture of tools that makes the most sense (not brand loyal). I think this is where platform and marketing comes into play. Let's see how it goes.
My need is simple: The darn tool should work (apparently I heard Jeff say that the brushes on the Mafell tools last 25yrs! MT55 is not brushless). The ergonomics of design and convenience matters a lot. When you amortize the cost of the tool over the lifespan - its very marginal (as the saying goes "I am not rich enough to buy cheap"), I'd rather drive a Merc from day 1 knowing that in 20 yrs its cheaper to drive the Merc than a Corolla?
In the end what we do with the tool is more important than the tool itself
.lshah72414
Member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2016
- Messages
- 144
To be clear, The Kss 40 package does come with the flexi rail. I bought one. So far in its limited use I like it alot.
Similar threads
