Magazine Kapex review

[tvgordon]

In the latest issue of Woodworker's Journal (June), they compare sliding mitersaws.  They compare the Bosch, Craftsman, Hitachi, Makita, Metabo and Festool.  Overall, the Kapex received the highest score, but they gave their "Best Bet"award to the Makita because if performed nearly as well at less the half the cost of the Festool.

The Kapex got perfect scores on all categories except cutting power (4 out of 5), portability (4 out of 5) and, the one that surprised me, handle and trigger comfort (3 out of 5).  I realize that handle comfort varies from person to person, but would anyone who has used the saw like to comment?

If your interested, it received perfect scores for cutting accuracy and quality, operating smoothness, angle setting ease, fence and table, laser guides and dust collection.

Tom.

 

[Brice Burrell]

  Tom, I don't like the handle location, and that stupid trigger is even worse! The trigger (power switch) has to be pressed to lower the saw, then a second button pressed to fully engage the power switch, to turn on the saw, bad design! From what I understand you get used to it, it doesn't change the fact that it is a useless feature. Keep in mind I only used the saw briefly in Henderson.

 

[nickao]

Well, never using the Kapex saw I do like a horizontal handle much better than the pistol grip and many guys would agree. I believe less people like the pistol once they use a horizontal for a period of time. If I had a choice I would get a Kapex with the horizontal format, so I get the 3 rating based on that alone.

The double Press button Brice mentioned is a clincher for me. I will not like it, but will deal with it for dust collection.

Doesn't one of the Bosch turn for either pistol or horizontal use?

Who knows maybe the Kapex 2 will eliminate the safety button and add and "either - or" set up if they get enough  user feedback to warrant it.

Nickao

 

[mastercabman]

  Tom, I don't like the handle location, and that stupid trigger is even worse! The trigger (power switch) has to be pressed to lower the saw, then a second button pressed to fully engage the power switch, to turn on the saw, bad design! From what I understand you get used to it, it doesn't change the fact that it is a useless feature. Keep in mind I only used the saw briefly in Henderson.

so,it's kind of like the plunge cut saw?

 

[John Langevin]

Mastercabman,

Good Point.

 

[Brice Burrell]

  Tom, I don't like the handle location, and that stupid trigger is even worse! The trigger (power switch) has to be pressed to lower the saw, then a second button pressed to fully engage the power switch, to turn on the saw, bad design! From what I understand you get used to it, it doesn't change the fact that it is a useless feature. Keep in mind I only used the saw briefly in Henderson.

so,it's kind of like the plunge cut saw?

  No, you have to first depress the trigger (part way) to move the saw down towards the wood, then press the safety button to fully engage the trigger. All other miter saws I've used you don't have to press the trigger to move the saw dawnwards, only to turn it on.

 

[Dan Clark]

In general, I agree that horizontal miter saw handles are better.  While I'm not happy with my Bosch, I do like the handle.  That said...

I didn't find a problem with the Kapex handle and trigger.  I think the reason is that I came with a negative preconception, but found that they Kapex handle wasn't as bad as I expected.  I.e., I was pleasantly surprised.

I still prefer my Bosch handle, but the Kapex handle is not a deal killer for me.

Now regarding the review...

I think they did a decent review.  One thing that they noted was that there scoring EXCLUDED the laser guide ratings!  If they had included them, the Kapex rating would have have been even higher than the competition. 

Another thing I noted was that the Bosch rated pretty low compared to other reviews.  In other reviews the Bosch scored similar to the Makita and beat them in some.  IMO, this review is more balanced.  For example, they included weight as a criteria. 

If someone has a nice big, permanent shop where they can permanently mount a miter saw, then weight is not an issue.  For those of us poor sods that who have to drag it around to a job site or to store it on a shelf, weight is a VERY big issue.  I can deal with lots of issues, but dragging that damn Bosch off the shelf and onto its stand is a major pain - literally and figuratively.  (I'll give you one guess why I know this!)

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

One thing I will throw into the conversation...

I think it has to do as much with the height of the saw as it does the handle configuration.  With a vertical handle, the saw needs to be positioned low enough that you don't over-bend your wrist.  The that was one reason for the lower height of the MFT/3-Kapex.  The other was to make the deck height of the Kapex plus the height of the MFT/3 Kapex equal to the height of the MFT/3 (if you follow all of that).  So an MFT/3 placed beside it can act as a material support. 

One advantage of the vertical handle is better visibility of the workpiece during the cut from either side.  I am certain everyone has a preference and opinion on the topic.

Of course, this is my completely unbiased thoughts.   

 

[Dan Clermont]

The KAPEX at the Henderson training facility sits on a MFT 3 which is too high anyhow, the MFT which will be released for the KAPEX will be approx 4" lower.

The handle is made for lefties and righties. No Bias!

I stand 6'2" and found the saw on the full height MFT awkward. If it was in my own shop it would sit lower and I'd most certainly get used to it.

Will I buy one someday? Yep! when? Dunno, still have a combo machine to pay for ;D

Dan Clermont

 

[Brice Burrell]

A vertical handle is a must on a miters for me. Shane hit the nail right on the head, it gives you an unobstructed view of the right side of the blade. Its the fact that the trigger has to be partly depressed to move the saw head downward that's the issue for me. Take a look at these pics of the Kapex and my Makita 1214. Notice that the handles are very similar.

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The picture below shows that the Makita can be pressed down without depressing the trigger, I tent to just place my hand flat on the handle and push down, just like you see in this picture.

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With the saw in the down I then wrap my fingers around the trigger to turn the saw on, take a close look at my wrist, its straight. This position is comfortable.

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Now imagine my Makita is the Kapex, since the trigger needs to be partly depressed before the saw will move downward I have to wrap my fingers around the trigger in the up position. Look at my wrist now, its bent in a very uncomfortable position, that's what I don't like about the Kapex's trigger design.

[attachthumb=#]

I know this sounds petty to some of you, however I make a living with a miter saw, there are weeks my saw is used all day long. Its the little things that make the a big difference.

One thing I will throw into the conversation...

I think it has to do as much with the height of the saw as it does the handle configuration.  With a vertical handle, the saw needs to be positioned low enough that you don't over-bend your wrist.  The that was one reason for the lower height of the MFT/3-Kapex.  The other was to make the deck height of the Kapex plus the height of the MFT/3 Kapex equal to the height of the MFT/3 (if you follow all of that).  So an MFT/3 placed beside it can act as a material support. 

One advantage of the vertical handle is better visibility of the workpiece during the cut from either side.  I am certain everyone has a preference and opinion on the topic.

Of course, this is my completely unbiased thoughts.   

Shane, I think Festool missed an important detail with the deck being lower. The deck (or bed of the saw)stock should be as high as possible, this brings the stock up closer to one's eyes. This is a necessity, to split a fine pencil line you have to first be able to see it, preferably without having to bent way down to see. This is why I think Festool made a big design mistake with the safety trigger.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Shane, I think Festool missed an important detail with the deck being lower. The deck (or bed of the saw)stock should be as high as possible, this brings the stock up closer to one's eyes. This is a necessity, to split a fine pencil line you have to first be able to see it, preferably without having to bent way down to see. This is why I think Festool made a big design mistake with the safety trigger.

Brice,

There was a specific reason for the deck height... it is equal to the height of a SYS 1.  So, in a pinch, you could use a SYS 1 to support the material as it's the same height as the deck.  I believe there was plenty of thought and logic put into the smallest of details in the design of the Kapex.  Out of curiousity, I measure the height of my miter saw deck and it's 2-1/2".  A SYS 1 is roughly 3-1/4".  So, in theory, if most saws are like mine then the Kapex deck is actually higher.  I would be interested to hear the deck height from others to see if this theory holds true.  Then again, it may not be relevant.  I think what matters is that people find that the tool is worth the investment based on the unique features, it's ability to save time and increase productivity and based on it's precision.  I'm not sure it's possible to engineer the perfect tool for all but our engineers definitely make an earnest effort to do so.

Regarding the pencil marks... I think we are awaiting UL approval on a pencil which works in tandem with the Kapex.  The lasers automatically align to the pencil marks without user intervention.  (Of course, I am kidding).  ;D

 

[mastercabman]

Regarding the pencil marks... I think we are awaiting UL approval on a pencil which works in tandem with the Kapex.  The lasers automatically align to the pencil marks without user intervention.  (Of course, I am kidding).   ;D

ok.so you are kidding,..........but can it be done?

 

[Brice Burrell]

  Yeah, Shane, I know why they made the height as they did.

I didn't word my last part of my post very well, I meant the total height of the MFT/Kapex could be a bit higher (the total height of the deck off of the floor). I know it matches the MFT/3's height, its Festool's system approach. I don't think this is by any means a deal breaker, but it is an inconvenience all the same.

 

[nickao]

A vertical handle is a must on a miters for me.

Brice why do you say it is a must for you? I personally have never liked them. The visibility never ever entered in my mind in twenty five years. My horizontal handle does not obstruct my view at all. Is this on some specific saws only?

I line up the blade to the right side of the line and hold the board with my left hand and looking on the left side of the blade I leave the line when I cut. Am I missing something?

Nickao

 

[Brice Burrell]

Nick, I had two different DeWalts with horizontal handles, the handles was too low, they sort of blocked my view, I had to bend down to look under my hand to see the balde to line up the cut.

 

[nickao]

Got it, I am considered short I guess. Plus my miter box is set at what most would considered really high, Probably makes for the difference.

 

[Pete]

Brice, and others,

I've been fortunate enough to have my Kapex for around six months now, and to be honest, I had to stop and think about your issue with the "safety" double button setup. Having used this saw a LOT, it is like an extension of my hand - you just don't notice any problem with the handle or trigger.

What I do notice is the difference between my mate's Makita and my Kapex. I'd walk  twice the distance every cut when we are on site, just to use the Kapex. For my work (detail joinery - yacht fitout / staircase installation) the Festool product is close to being twice the tool that the Makita is.

As for the vertical / horizontal handle thing, I guess that really is a personal issue - kinda like with jigsaws - 'D' Handle or Barrel grip?

One last point - anyone that continually changes the bevel angle would think they had died and gone to heaven when going from a makita to a Kapex.

Cheers,

Pete

 

[nickao]

Pete, why exactly is the Kapex twice the tool?

Does it cut more square or is it the overall feel of the saw?

I NEVER use the bevel with the miter box,  unless large crown forces me to, maybe I will start if this saw is as good as you say.

Nickao

 

[semenza]

Hi,

          My DeWalt has a horizontal handle and I have always perfered it to verticle or the ones that used to stick out straight.  But I think the height of the saw has a lot to do with it too.  My saw is mounted high the stande is about 40" and the saw base is another 4". I am 6' tall.  I have gotten very used to the excellent view of the line at this height. No laser.  No safety button.  I think the Kapex would be very uncomfortable at this mounting height.  If I get one I would think I would want it quite low.  Perhaps the accuracy of the laser will make up for the lessened view.  I can't wait to get my hands on one to check it out.

Seth

 

[Frank-Jan]

The KAPEX at the Henderson training facility sits on a MFT 3 which is too high anyhow, the MFT which will be released for the KAPEX will be approx 4" lower.
...

Dan,
Judging from the pictures in the Vegas thread it's sitting on a MFT1, which I believe is the same height the mft3 for the kapex will be. (It could very well be that the one for the pick-it-up-and-walk-around test was different from the one of the cutting tests, after all, I wasn't there )

Brice,
Did you modify your makita, or did they cancel the safety paddle for the guard lock? My old (2001) ls1013 has the thumb button safety switch, and an extra paddle to the right, which you have to press with your index finger to be able to lower the blade (like the first stage of the kapex trigger) In regards to this method, the kapex solution is easier.

I believe it would have been a bit better if they put a cushion grip on the handle, sometimes my hand slips down, especially when I'm using the special tall miter setting, where the blade travels lower into the table.

Frank-Jan