Measuring and Squaring Devices
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Paul Franklin
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I used to swear by Fastcap, but I not so sure anymore, I use the lefty/righty, but I noticed the other day that the two sides do not correspond to one another. They are off by a 1/16th
So I am looking for a new tape, I am waiting to hear back from Fastcap
Paul
So I am looking for a new tape, I am waiting to hear back from Fastcap
Paul
Ken Nagrod
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Although I like the company FastCap, those tape measures, which are made in China, have poor manufacturing quality control. I've had to go through a couple of boxes to get 1 good one most of the time. I think I have 5 of the models, but not the True 32 yet. A majority of each box aren't accurate when compared to a 24" or 600mm machinists rule and I've seen a number of them with smudged or missing printing. That's why it's also important to pull out the entire tape and check the printing. You're paying for it. It might as well be made right.
tiralie
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Ken Nagrod said:
Really! I am going to buy a couple (true 32) tapes. I will let you know if they are as bad as your experience has shown.
If so I will send Fastcap a note.
On another note, any one have any preferences for electronic measuring devices. I use both the Bosch and the Leica Disto D3. The Leica has a tilt sensor that is pretty cool.
Tim
TJ Cornish
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I have a Hilti PD42 that I really like - the form factor is much smaller than the bigger Distos, and the optical sight works really well.Tim Raleigh said:
Sparktrician
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Tim Raleigh said:
I've been using a Bosch DLR165 for over two years with great success. I just wish it had a belt clip like my more traditional tape measures, and that it ran on a 9 volt 1604 battery rather than four 1.5 volt AAA batteries. This device doesn't replace a traditional tape measure by any means, but when taking inside measurements, especially those over 8 feet, it beats a tape hands down.
[smile]
Ken Nagrod
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Let me warn you, this is going to be a rant post, but beyond venting, I think it might have some value to others with the products or those considering buying them.
I have several Fastcap tape measures. I don't have the "True32". I found 3 while considering about writing this post. They are the Lefty/Righty, the Metric/Standard and the Flatback. If you go back through this thread you'll see my post about the problems I've had in picking out Fastcap tape measures. Even thinking I've done a good job selecting a decent one, I've found that I should have been more thorough in my selection.
Today is a good example of that. I needed to make some custom window jamb extensions for an Anderson casement. The window jamb has a 3/8" wide by 1/4" deep groove on the top, bottom and sides to accept a jamb extension. I took detailed measurements with my Festool folding rule at the job, then adjusted my table saw with my Fastcap Lefty/Righty tape measure to rip the edge of my 5/4 boards to make the required tongue. At first I couldn't understand how I wasn't getting the tongue in the correct spot and the thickness was off. I was getting very ticked off at myself for not getting the math correct in my head, so I thought. Multiple passes and readjustments to the rip fence, yet I was still having the same problems. I need to be very accurate to get the correct reveal between the jamb and jamb extension plus have a snug fit between the tongue and groove.
Something made me check the rip fence to blade measurement with my trusty Stanley Fat Max tape I mostly use for framing. I constantly check that tape for accuracy to at least 1/32" even though that's excessive precision for framing requirements. The Stanley showed me I was 1/32" off from where I thought I was and all my measurements on the jamb extensions that I ran thru the table saw showed they were off. Compared the Fastcap tape against the Festool folding rule and THERE IT WAS. The tape showed a 1/32" difference when pushing in the hook for an inside measurement, yet it was perfect on pulling out the hook, comparing it to the folding rule as in an outside measurement and the Stanley was dead-on with the folding rule for both inside and outside measurements. Same results when I repeated the check against my Lufkin folding rule and the many Woodpeckers measuring tools I have.
I wasted some material and a lot of time AGAIN. I do think Fastcap is a good company with excellent customer service, but I think they are seriously lacking manufacturing control over their Chinese made tape measures. I am going to contact Paul or Leanne about this issue and post their response.
I know I should have just used a folding rule to adjust the table saw's rip fence, but I didn't. Also, for anyone thinking this, yes I could have just put my adjustable tongue cutter bit in a router or router table and made one pass as opposed to the four passes required on the table saw, but I left some required tools to do that on the jobsite and I've done this many times with just the table saw, so that's what was on hand to work with.
My Flatback tape measure (at least for outside measurements, I didn't check inside measurements) varies, so in comparision to my 2 folding rules and my Stanley tape, it's accurate in some spots and off in others. My Metric/Standard reads 1/32" or 0.75mm high for outside measurements. Didn't bother checking inside measurements on that one either. If they're off on outside measurements, they sit on the shelf anyway.
Meanwhile, does anyone know of another brand of "True32" type tape measure that does have the accuracy required for precision cabinet making?
I have several Fastcap tape measures. I don't have the "True32". I found 3 while considering about writing this post. They are the Lefty/Righty, the Metric/Standard and the Flatback. If you go back through this thread you'll see my post about the problems I've had in picking out Fastcap tape measures. Even thinking I've done a good job selecting a decent one, I've found that I should have been more thorough in my selection.
Today is a good example of that. I needed to make some custom window jamb extensions for an Anderson casement. The window jamb has a 3/8" wide by 1/4" deep groove on the top, bottom and sides to accept a jamb extension. I took detailed measurements with my Festool folding rule at the job, then adjusted my table saw with my Fastcap Lefty/Righty tape measure to rip the edge of my 5/4 boards to make the required tongue. At first I couldn't understand how I wasn't getting the tongue in the correct spot and the thickness was off. I was getting very ticked off at myself for not getting the math correct in my head, so I thought. Multiple passes and readjustments to the rip fence, yet I was still having the same problems. I need to be very accurate to get the correct reveal between the jamb and jamb extension plus have a snug fit between the tongue and groove.
Something made me check the rip fence to blade measurement with my trusty Stanley Fat Max tape I mostly use for framing. I constantly check that tape for accuracy to at least 1/32" even though that's excessive precision for framing requirements. The Stanley showed me I was 1/32" off from where I thought I was and all my measurements on the jamb extensions that I ran thru the table saw showed they were off. Compared the Fastcap tape against the Festool folding rule and THERE IT WAS. The tape showed a 1/32" difference when pushing in the hook for an inside measurement, yet it was perfect on pulling out the hook, comparing it to the folding rule as in an outside measurement and the Stanley was dead-on with the folding rule for both inside and outside measurements. Same results when I repeated the check against my Lufkin folding rule and the many Woodpeckers measuring tools I have.
I wasted some material and a lot of time AGAIN. I do think Fastcap is a good company with excellent customer service, but I think they are seriously lacking manufacturing control over their Chinese made tape measures. I am going to contact Paul or Leanne about this issue and post their response.
I know I should have just used a folding rule to adjust the table saw's rip fence, but I didn't. Also, for anyone thinking this, yes I could have just put my adjustable tongue cutter bit in a router or router table and made one pass as opposed to the four passes required on the table saw, but I left some required tools to do that on the jobsite and I've done this many times with just the table saw, so that's what was on hand to work with.
My Flatback tape measure (at least for outside measurements, I didn't check inside measurements) varies, so in comparision to my 2 folding rules and my Stanley tape, it's accurate in some spots and off in others. My Metric/Standard reads 1/32" or 0.75mm high for outside measurements. Didn't bother checking inside measurements on that one either. If they're off on outside measurements, they sit on the shelf anyway.
Meanwhile, does anyone know of another brand of "True32" type tape measure that does have the accuracy required for precision cabinet making?
Guy Ashley
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Ken
I use the Stanley Fat Max tapes, I have the 8m and two of the 5m tapes and always found them spot on.
Never tried any of the other "fancy" ones as the Stanley's have always been fine.
I use the Stanley Fat Max tapes, I have the 8m and two of the 5m tapes and always found them spot on.
Never tried any of the other "fancy" ones as the Stanley's have always been fine.
Ken Nagrod
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Guy,
Unfortunately it's not as easy to find the Stanley and other brand (non-Fastcap) metric tape measures here. Sometimes I spot only one and in a small length amongst a sea of imperial tapes. I was mainly interested in one with the 32mm markings as that would offer both requirements in one tape while using the Festool system for cabinetmaking and I've never seen or heard of one other than the Fastcap.
Unfortunately it's not as easy to find the Stanley and other brand (non-Fastcap) metric tape measures here. Sometimes I spot only one and in a small length amongst a sea of imperial tapes. I was mainly interested in one with the 32mm markings as that would offer both requirements in one tape while using the Festool system for cabinetmaking and I've never seen or heard of one other than the Fastcap.
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Ken,
Did some searching [scared]. Tajima tapes have a good reputation. They have a metric / standard tape. I don't know if they have the special markings at 32 mm increments. The model number for a 25 footer is G-25/7.5 MBW. Acetoolonline.com has them.
Peter
Did some searching [scared]. Tajima tapes have a good reputation. They have a metric / standard tape. I don't know if they have the special markings at 32 mm increments. The model number for a 25 footer is G-25/7.5 MBW. Acetoolonline.com has them.
Peter
There are at least two guys (Starrett employees) that sell blems on e-bay. I've seen satin chrome metric scales of various lengths go at reasonable prices. If you don't see what you want up for auction just send a message & will probably accommodate you.
Ken Nagrod
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Peter Halle said:
Peter,
I believe I've seen that one being used by Gary Katz. I think I only saw it for sale (in a store) at A.W. Meyer. Like you said, I said, [big grin] still looking for a 32mm version though.
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Hi,
Something to keep in mind is that it is not just the accuracy but the measuring devices need to be consistent. If you are switching from tape, to folding rule, to square when measuring, they all need to be in sync with each other. Just because the measuring tools are accurate doesn't mean they will work together.
If you need real precision then make sure they sync up or don't switch from one to another.
Seth
Something to keep in mind is that it is not just the accuracy but the measuring devices need to be consistent. If you are switching from tape, to folding rule, to square when measuring, they all need to be in sync with each other. Just because the measuring tools are accurate doesn't mean they will work together.
If you need real precision then make sure they sync up or don't switch from one to another.
Seth
good point seth.
in the past i used to have a few tapes going together ( one near the saw, belt etc) after a few times of things being a mill out i worked out that the tapes were not consistent from one to the other. also check that the metal bit on the end is straight and square as i learnt this lesson 2
in the past i used to have a few tapes going together ( one near the saw, belt etc) after a few times of things being a mill out i worked out that the tapes were not consistent from one to the other. also check that the metal bit on the end is straight and square as i learnt this lesson 2
Ken Nagrod
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SRSemenza said:
Yes. That's why I check my big Stanley tape measure against the others frequently (like a round robin method) and so on. I find "cross measurement continuity" is important for me.
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GhostFist said:
No they don't. It is tough to get a metric only tape in NA as Ken said. We are measurement challenged here and have the need for both.
Peter
GhostFist
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I suppose a metric tape would be good for me for my own projects but I can't consciously be the only one using metric on a site full of Imperials. I was using a dual scale tape for a while and had to ditch it just coz there was too much different scale crap on it.
I find the Mesopotamian style precision story tape from Lee Valley is more accurate than the Metric [big grin]: LV Precision Story Tape
I'm only half tongue in cheek here...seriously...you can take measurement to a point and then parallax error kills you. Get a set of the Icra rules for markup and use Ruler Stops Veritas Ruler Stop for transferring measurements. I also use a couple of different length bar gauges Veritas Bar Gauge for transfering inside measurements. Keep a piece of 2X2 for each project as a story stick. Throw away your tape measures unless they're a "Precision Story Tape" [big grin]. I actually have a Fastcap flatback tape with a story strip on one side which comes in handy on long cabinet pieces.
I'm only half tongue in cheek here...seriously...you can take measurement to a point and then parallax error kills you. Get a set of the Icra rules for markup and use Ruler Stops Veritas Ruler Stop for transferring measurements. I also use a couple of different length bar gauges Veritas Bar Gauge for transfering inside measurements. Keep a piece of 2X2 for each project as a story stick. Throw away your tape measures unless they're a "Precision Story Tape" [big grin]. I actually have a Fastcap flatback tape with a story strip on one side which comes in handy on long cabinet pieces.
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