Melamine Cabinets

[Kevcoleman]

I just purchased the ts55 circular saw and a domino.  Absolutely freaking awesome tools to use.  Makes my time in the shop so much more productive.  I am going to build some shop cabinets out of melamine and have two quick questions.

For cutting the melamine would the stock blade work or should I spring for the special blade made for melamine.

Second, I am thinking of either using dominos for the majority of jointery or confirmat screws. What are your recommendations for the jointery.  It will be a combination of dados, butt joints and rabbits I think

Thanks

KC

 

[Matthew Schenker]

KC,
I have used the TS55 with a stock blade several times to cut melamine, and it works beautifully -- no chipping.  Just make sure the chip guard is down, and of course run the saw on the guide rail.

I have not yet tried the special blade.  Perhaps someone else can comment on it.

Regarding screws, I've got the same questions you posed!  I've tried several things, and would love to know what others think works best with melamine.

Matthew

 

[wsreynolds]

I have built quite a few units using MDF and Melamine and I used a biscuit jointer with conformant screws with great success. The biscuits are very effective for aligning the carcass and with very little glue and the the conformant screws it will be very strong. I have even built some not using any glue for breakdown purposes with much success. I now have the Domino and suspect I will have even better results.

 

[Michael Kellough]

I have even built some not using any glue for breakdown purposes with much success.

If you want a permanent assembly, I've read that Roo Glue is designed for melamine and is strong enough to pull the melamine off the particle board.

 

[woodshopdemos]

Building white melamine particle core board cabinets has become an "art form" with me and the Festool shop. First of all, get either fine tooth blade. 2nd - use a cutting table with 1" foam under your panels. Confirmat screws are the ones for those materials but still need drilling and some sort of cover. FastCap makes a pressure sensitive cover and many places carry white plugs that fit into confirmat screw heads. Roo glue is necessary if you are gluing the white surface. Titebond also now has "melamine" glue. BUT, it you rabbet/dado your joints, the white surface melamine is not part of the joint. You, instead have end grain of the particle core...if that is grain. In any case, polyurethane (Gorilla) glue works wonders even if you dislike it as much as I do.
  With using the Domino, I have been able to create cabinets without dado's/rabbets and have a stronger cabinet, in my estimation.
Now, rather than to say more, May I suggest you walk through the Festool sub-menu on my website. Everything I have discussed here is there and in picture format and much more so.http://www.woodshopdemos.com/men-fes.htm

Here, Andrea and I are conducting tests of the different blades. A perfect cut was a lot more than the right blade.

 

[Kevcoleman]

Thanks for all the info. 
John, thanks for the link.  I have looked at several of your pages in the past but the link to the whole story was most helpful.

I wanted to clarify one thing.  Builidng cabinets with glue and dominos (without confirmat screws) would be strong enough? 

Thanks again.

 

[Dan Clark]

John,

To extend the question...

Would buiding cabinets out of plywood using Dominos and glue be strong enough?

Regards,

Dan.

 

[woodshopdemos]

AN answer to Kev and Dan...
  In my opinion, the 5mm Domino tenons placed every 4" or so are way better than the Comfirmat. It is a matter of width. If you look at just the joint of the sides to the back. The back of an upper cabinet is affixed to the wall, the the sides carry the load of the shelves. So, the back to side joint is critical.  If it weren't for looks, I would say that a slight rabbet ( mainly to get rid of the white mel in the joint), Gorilla glue and 2" narrow crown staples would give the strongest joint.  5mm Domino tenons every 4" and a butt joint gives the next strongest joint.
  And to Dan, anything that can be done in white melamine, can be better done in cabinet grade plywood. I would use the 5mm Domino and Titebond III and no rabbet or dado.

 

[bruegf]

I'm building a sysport using 3/4 Melamine PC material and since this is the first time I've used Melamine I'm wonder what glue to use for glueing the edge (particle core exposed) to the melamine covered face joint?  The joint has dominos every 4" or so.  Will regular titebond be enough with the dominos or should I use a different glue?

Thanks

Fred

 

[Dave Rudy]

Will regular titebond be enough with the dominos or should I use a different glue?

Fred,  Why not rabbet both pieces as John suggests and then you have particleboard-particleboard joint.  Titebond works fine and no melamine glue issue?

Dave

 

[bruegf]

Its too late for that.  All panels are cut, shelves made and slides mounted.  I'm committed at this point.  It's just a question of whether or not using Titebond on the dominos will give a strong enough joint or should I get one of the glues that will bond to Melamine.

Thanks

Fred

 

[Brent b]

Bruegf, dowelled, butt jointed melamine carcases have neen around for a long time, I've built quite a few myself.  Roo glue in this application is a waste of time and money.  Use proper domino technique and the case will be plenty strong.
Brent

 

[sroxberg]

I'm building a sysport using 3/4 Melamine PC material and since this is the first time I've used Melamine I'm wonder what glue to use for glueing the edge (particle core exposed) to the melamine covered face joint?  The joint has dominos every 4" or so.  Will regular titebond be enough with the dominos or should I use a different glue?

Fred,

I used a titebond Melamine glue that I bought at Woodcraft. I used Domino's and pocket screws to hold things together. My Sysport won't be coming apart, Glue, Domino's, and Screws. The Pocket Screws were used as clamps so that I could keep moving with the project.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

AN answer to Kev and Dan...
   In my opinion, the 5mm Domino tenons placed every 4" or so are way better than the Comfirmat. It is a matter of width. If you look at just the joint of the sides to the back. The back of an upper cabinet is affixed to the wall, the the sides carry the load of the shelves. So, the back to side joint is critical.  If it weren't for looks, I would say that a slight rabbet ( mainly to get rid of the white mel in the joint), Gorilla glue and 2" narrow crown staples would give the strongest joint.  5mm Domino tenons every 4" and a butt joint gives the next strongest joint.
   And to Dan, anything that can be done in white melamine, can be better done in cabinet grade plywood. I would use the 5mm Domino and Titebond III and no rabbet or dado.

John,

This is a topic of great interest and puzzlement to me.  I, too, am very interested in building some shop cabinets.  I plan fasten an oak or birch plywood rail [or two at different heights] to the walls of my garage/shop so I can hang cabinets and tool board holders up on the rail using a French cleat.  The only melamine material I have convenient access to is the HD or Lowe's stuff with a particle board core.  Why does anyone use this material?  Although it is relatively inexpensive, it is heavy, weak, sags under its own weight when used for anything but short light duty shelves, makes a lot of nasty dust when machined, is hard on tooling, and requires special fasteners, all negatives compared to plywood.  Is it the smooth white, water resistant coating that attracts others?  If it had an MDF or ply core, my thoughts might be much different.  Please help me to understand why PC melamine is of interest to you and others?

Dave R.

 

[woodshopdemos]

Dave, it is the smooth, white, cleanable surface that appeals to me. It is heavy but once up on the wall, that doesn't matter (unless it falls off.)
  I do think that you need to redesign the cabinet though. Too many cabinets are built with 1/4" back and then have a 1 x 3 hanging strip at the top. My theory is that ALL the weight is transferred to the back, therefore I use 3/4" white melamine particle core board for the back, the sides, the shelves...for everything but the drawers and doors.  Before the Domino, I would make a 1/4" rabbet for the back into the sides and the base into the sides. I thought that the mechanical joint with glue was important. With the Domino, I have changed strategies and now do not do any rabbeting or dado's. I use 5mm Doms every 5 inches or so. That with Gorilla glue (stronger than Roo glue) makes for a very strong and unified cabinet.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

John,

I agree that in my planned French cleat hanging concept much of the weight is going to be transferred through the back and the edges where the cleat meets them.  My current thinking is to use 1/2 or 3/4 plywood for both the backs and the sides.  That will facilitate addition of other tool holders whether they be nails, screws, dowels, domis or specifically shaped wooden holders.

I can certainly see the advantages of being able to wipe off the exterior and no need for painting - provided you like white which is all I see in HD and Lowes.

Dave R.

 

[bruegf]

Dave,

Menards has a faux wood grain melamine as well as white, if memory serves, it was an oak grain pattern.

Fred

 

[Michael Kellough]

AN answer to Kev and Dan...
   In my opinion, the 5mm Domino tenons placed every 4" or so are way better than the Comfirmat. It is a matter of width. If you look at just the joint of the sides to the back. The back of an upper cabinet is affixed to the wall, the the sides carry the load of the shelves. So, the back to side joint is critical.  If it weren't for looks, I would say that a slight rabbet ( mainly to get rid of the white mel in the joint), Gorilla glue and 2" narrow crown staples would give the strongest joint.  5mm Domino tenons every 4" and a butt joint gives the next strongest joint.
   And to Dan, anything that can be done in white melamine, can be better done in cabinet grade plywood. I would use the 5mm Domino and Titebond III and no rabbet or dado.

John,

This is a topic of great interest and puzzlement to me.  I, too, am very interested in building some shop cabinets.  I plan fasten an oak or birch plywood rail [or two at different heights] to the walls of my garage/shop so I can hang cabinets and tool board holders up on the rail using a French cleat.  The only melamine material I have convenient access to is the HD or Lowe's stuff with a particle board core.  Why does anyone use this material?  Although it is relatively inexpensive, it is heavy, weak, sags under its own weight when used for anything but short light duty shelves, makes a lot of nasty dust when machined, is hard on tooling, and requires special fasteners, all negatives compared to plywood.  Is it the smooth white, water resistant coating that attracts others?  If it had an MDF or ply core, my thoughts might be much different.  Please help me to understand why PC melamine is of interest to you and others?

Dave R.

In addition to being pre-finished, as the other guys have noted, it is FLAT.

 

[woodshopdemos]

Dave,
  I make them better than the big box stuff by the doors, drawers and roll-out trays.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Menards?  Where are they?  I live in NE Ohio, USA.  None of the local real lumberyards that I have contacted thus far have anything but particle board core melamine.  Since I am a hobbyist and building for myself rather than competing with others' products, I am usually willing to pay a bit more for good material.  Flat and a wipe clean are certainly desirable traits. Has anyone used that sheet material intended for highway sign boards for shop cabinets?  That would also seem a good choice to me.

John, anything you make looks great to me!  I have reviewed many of your project posts at your website.

Dave R.