Melamine Chipping

[phmade]

I know this has been a popular topic in the past and I read many of the older posts... but I still cannot seem to solve my chipping issues in melamine.  I purchased high quality melamine from my supplier (not from a big box store) and I'm using a brand new fine tooth blade on a TS75.  In addition, I'm using a brand new 3000mm guide rail for all of my rips so it has a freshly trimmed splinter guard.  Does anyone have any thoughts or ideas?

The chipping isn't too bad along the guide rail (although it's BARELY acceptable) but on the far side of the blade it's TERRIBLE!  Every time I make a cut, I have to go back and clean that same edge by cutting the other direction.  The underside of the melamine is also chipping - I have never had this happen before!  Could my depth of cut be too shallow?  I am cutting through the piece and into my sacrificial top on my cutting table (made out of 3/4" OSB). 

Thanks in advance.

PHIL

 

[Guy Ashley]

If it is any help you are not the only one and I have tried a number of methods, tape, varying speed, depth of cut, etc, etc and in the end I always finish of with a OF1010 on a guide rail.

I think because melamine is so brittle its virtually impossible to cut clean enough for a glue line with a saw.

 

[Jonhilgen]

I know this may be a bit time consuming, but have you tried to lower the blade just barely to score the top side?  Once you score it, then go back and lower the blade to just clear the bottom and cut it again, and this should give you better results.  Unfortunately, chipboard really does chip.  I usually hit the edge with a sand block and this cleans it up enough so it doesn't look too bad once it's edgebanded.

Jon

 

[speed]

are you using the green splinter guard on the other side of the blade?

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I see 2 problems.  Number 1, don't use osb as your backer.  It's not a smooth enough and stable enough surface.  Number 2, take a look on Freud's website at these two blades.  LU79R and for chip free cuts on both the top and bottom surfaces without the need of a scoring blade LU96R.  I know they're available in 160mm size for the TS55, but they might also have the size for the TS75 now.  If you don't see it, call them.

 

[phmade]

I'll try to do a scoring cut to see if that helps... I am using the green splinter guard on the far side of the blade.  But - I'm not sure that's doing anything because I have cut deeper in the past and therefore that green clock has a deeper cut in it than I'm doing now.  Does this mean I should have a selection of these green blocks for different depths of cut?

 

[phmade]

Thanks Ken, I'll try a different backer in the short term but I'll also look into that Freud blade.

 

[junk731]

You may have the saw toed in too much and the back edge of the blade is trashing the outer edge. It may not show up as much of other materials but melamine is the worst. See if your supplier has melamine coated MDF, a lot nicer to work with.

John

 

[jmbfestool]

I know this may be a bit time consuming, but have you tried to lower the blade just barely to score the top side?  Once you score it, then go back and lower the blade to just clear the bottom and cut it again, and this should give you better results.  Unfortunately, chipboard really does chip.  I usually hit the edge with a sand block and this cleans it up enough so it doesn't look too bad once it's edgebanded.

Jon

+1 for the scoring!  I always do that gives a much better cut!  I had to fit a glossy black kitchen and it shows up every little chip. The scoring helped making a prefect cut for me.

JMB

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

I would definitely recommend that you give us a call to diagnose your problem. As John mentioned, it may be an issue with your saw being out of calibration. This would be particularly plausible if you have dropped the saw.

We can help diagnose the cause and get it resolved for you.  The phone number is below in my signature and on your saw for convenience.

I've seen some pretty crappy melamine and still gotten good results.

Shane

 

[waynelang2001]

Scoring for me as well. To not have chips on the under side you need to have the blade cutting at least 20mm past the bottom of the board. I use cobra melamine blades on my table saw and even they will chip if i have the blade just clear the material.

 

[Sparktrician]

I'd go with Shane's suggestion.  My TS55 with the standard blade and the green splinter guard cuts melamine painfully cleanly, even when the cut-off portion is unsupported. 

[smile]

 

[AlexThePalex]

I think because melamine is so brittle its virtually impossible to cut clean enough for a glue line with a saw.

I never have any problem cutting it on my Precisio with the fine tooth blade. I get perfect results on both sides as long as the blade is reasonably sharp. There must be some problem with the OP's alignment of the blade because a TS75 with a brand new blade should be able to get the same results.

 

[Wonderwino]

As I recall from Cabinet class at Festool, the TS55 will naturally give better results as the blade puts more teeth per minute into the wood.  I have found that pushing my TS75 along at a slower pace in melamine works better than pushing it as fast as it will cut.  I also back the cuts up with a sheet of rigid foam and always have the green splinter guard installed.

 

[phmade]

Thanks for your replies everyone.  I will call Festool tomorrow to troubleshoot further...

For now, I have switched my cutting surface to MDF to mimic the MFT top.

On a side note, I did notice that the TS55 has a higher RPM and would theoretically produce better results in melamine.  However, I think if I slow down my feed rate with the TS75, it should be adequate.

FYI:  Regarding the Freud blade - it is only available for the TS55.

What is the purpose of using foam underlayment as opposed to the MDF?  Is it just less resistance?  I'm curious because the MFT top is MDF and I would also like to have clean cuts in the melamine on that too.  I currently rip everything with my 3000mm guide rail and then crosscut on the MFT.

Thanks again to everyone.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

What is the purpose of using foam underlayment as opposed to the MDF?

I think it's just personal preference.  Some people feel like they're ruining or wasting a piece of wood.  Also the weight difference.  As long as the backing of the material you are cutting is fully supported (flat surface of material to flat surface of material) you should be fine no matter which you choose.  Any surface irregularities in the back up material can cause an issue when your desire for a higher quality finish of cut is paramount.

 

[ccarrolladams]

Long before I bought my first TS55 in January 2006 I had a lot of experience cutting Melamine on sliding table saws with a scoring blade.

Obviously it is not practical to build a hand held circular saw with a traditional scoring blade. I felt in 2006 and I still feel the advantage of using a well-clamped guide rail is you can make more than one pass in the same place.

Way back in FOG there was a suggestion of making a wedge for the plunge depth stop, so on the first pass only a 1.5-2.5mm scoring cut is made. With the wedge removed the separating cut is made with the blade extending at least a full tooth below the bottom of the work.

What I did then and still do occasionally now is I use plunge saws on sacrificial surfaces consisting of shop-grade Birch 19mm ply. In my shop those are sheets which came to be discolored. With Melamine I clamp the sheet to be cut firmly to the sacrificial surface as close to the cut as practical. I clamp the guide rail firmly. When I only had one TS55, I would set it for a 2mm scoring cut with the saw at maximum speed. Then while setting the plunge depth for at least 5mm below the base of the Melamine I reduced the saw speed slightly slower than I would use for 19mm Birch plywood. I would push the saw slower than normal. I was careful to set the green off-cut foot firmly.

All that took time. That motivated me to buy a second TS55, so one would be set to score at max speed. The second would be set slower and deeper for the final separating cut. One saw or two, I was delighted that the cuts were glue-ready.

This cutting of Melamine and similar fragile sheet goods was the motivation to buy a large enough building I could own a big pressure beam saw as well as a large sliding table saw, both with scoring units which run at very high speed. On those saws the main blade extends well above the surface of the Melamine. I program the beam saw to rotate the main blade slower than usual. I also program the feed rate slower than for common plywood, at about the same feed rate I use with MDF.

Smaller parts I cut on the CNC nested router. Those cuts are very good. Yes, those cutters need frequent sharpening. The benefit is I get the quality of making a careful cut on a saw followed by a cleaning pass with an OF 1010 or OF 1400 on a rail. Clearly the CNC machines is expensive, but so is labor. I hate to count beans. My honest belief is I am ahead using the CNC router. So far on larger parts with 90 degree cuts the quality of the beam saw cuts is very good. For large miter parts I find the use of the TS55 duo, clamped guide rails followed by the OF 1010 produces better quality work than does the large sliding table saw.

 

[harry_]

one of the things that you have to keep in mind is the green splinter guard on the TS75 is useless until blade depth is set beyond the half way point. At 25mm you might as well take it off and put it in your pocket for all the good it is doing.

 

[tiralie]

Make sure the "gib cams" the green knobs on the left side of the saw base are tight and there is no play between the saw and the guide rail.
This seems reduce the number of chips as much as a new blade for me.
I have also used the Festool blades (cut well but not for long) and the Freud LU96R006M20 which I am not sure about but so far I think the Tenryu PSL-16048ABM2 is a better blade and seems to last longer.
Good luck
tim

 

[Sparktrician]

What is the purpose of using foam underlayment as opposed to the MDF? 

In my world, the foamboard provides less cumulative wear and tear on the saw's blade than MDF or OSB.  It is also sufficiently rigid that it supports the item being cut quite well.  It's also far lighter to lug around in contrast with a similarly-sized piece of MDF or OSB. 

[smile]