Mercedes to add heated seatbelts as a safety feature—it kind of makes sense.

[leakyroof]

Before we criticize Mercedes too much…

I was stopped on Meadowbrook Parkway (Long Island) behind an accident. Mine was the last car to arrive before a drunk driver, traveling at the speed limit and having never touched his brakes, hit the read of my almost new 1987 Audi Quattro. The much heavier Chevy Blazer hit so hard that the seat back collapsed and I was completely supine when my head struck the seat back of the rear seat.

I was taken by ambulance to the hospital to have my neck X-rayed. Just soft tissue damage and pain. No structural damage.

I learned later that Mercedes had developed and patented a seat back latch designed to withstand that sort of impact. They offered the design for free to any car maker who wanted to use it. According to the article I read, it added about $5.00 to the manufacturing cost of the car.

Not one manufacturer took them up on that offer. I would have been much safer in a Mercedes than the Audi.

As an aside, in the early 1980s the P.I.T. Maneuver was developed to aid police in stopping fleeing cars. The technique involves having the police car pull alongside the fleeing vehicle, and using the front fender of the police car to push the rear fender of the fleeing car. This was designed to make the fleeing car spin out with minimal risk to the passengers.

Mercedes (with an assist from Bosch) thwarted that purpose and a few years later they developed the “Adavanced Stability Control” feature that applied the individual brakes to prevent spinning out. The purpose of ASC was to prevent spin outs, not to thwart PIT maneuvers.

The result of the ASC on the PIT maneuvers is that the fleeing car many times will flip over instead of spinning out. The ASC has gotten quite sophisticated and it might already be time for the PIT maneuvers to be retired. Unintended consequences.

Sorry to hear you went through that ordeal. Audi Quattros were neat vehicles. My first taste of AWD when driving them at the 1st shop I got hired at.
Yes, Mercedes I think offered their research on side impact collision or offset head on collision to other Car makers after they came up with all the info through their efforts.
I still look on W123 Chassis vehicles with great fondness. Even though the Chrysler sourced HVAC system was a pain to deal with, and parts and repairs on it are now taking on a new meaning of scarce, that group of vehicles were something to be proud of,

 

[Sparktrician]

Maybe this is all lost on me, but what is the reason for heated seatbelts...a narrow 2" heat band that goes across your chest? And...why will that $700 expenditure make you feel better? It's like a warm rock in your hand...it makes that single hand feel good but the other hand is still freezing.

Maybe if you put the hot rock in your mouth, it will keep others from hearing you carping about the hot rock on your mouth... Just sayin'...

 

[Packard]

Sorry to hear you went through that ordeal. Audi Quattros were neat vehicles. My first taste of AWD when driving them at the 1st shop I got hired at.
Yes, Mercedes I think offered their research on side impact collision or offset head on collision to other Car makers after they came up with all the info through their efforts.
I still look on W123 Chassis vehicles with great fondness. Even though the Chrysler sourced HVAC system was a pain to deal with, and parts and repairs on it are now taking on a new meaning of scarce, that group of vehicles were something to be proud of,

Things went wrong on my Audi (though I avoided the sudden acceleration issue by buying a manual transmission) that don’t go wrong with other cars. And they went wrong repeatedly.

I burned out my windshield wiper motor, three times. I’ve never heard of a wiper motor failing.

Power steering pump, twice.

Power window switches, so often that they gave me a box of switches and showed me how to replace them—it took seconds.

Radio—I lost count—maybe 5 or 6 times. They ran out of radios in the USA. There was a 6 month wait. Instead, I contacted the German embassy, and asked for their foreign trade bureau. From there I got the president’s name and fax number. I sent a fax directly to him. The following day I got a phone call from the dealer. He would install a later model radio that they had in stock immediately. Apparently the German president did not want to be annoyed with American problems. But more likely the fax was read, the problem solved, and the president remained in the dark on the problem.

In any case, when there are problems with components on any manufactured item, and that problem persists, it is a sure indicator of a corrupt purchasing department. Someone is getting paid to ignore the problem and continue buying from the same source.

Until, like the radio problem, it becomes too big to ignore. Then a change in vendors will occur.

It is really hard to “un-corrupt” a purchasing department. The buyers teach the new salesmen the “rules of the road” and the salesmen teach the new buyers the “rules of the road”.

My customer, Rubbermaid, in the 1980s fired the entire purchasing department in Virginia, and they took over purchasing in Texas for that reason. I landed the account after that change. The director of purchasing came to visit us and explained that very problem and how they had to deal with it. They were replacing all their vendors; they fired all the purchasing agents. He was really telling us, be honest or be gone.

In any case, I’ve never bought another Audi. There were two things I liked about the car particularly. First, I could drive 500 miles between fill ups, which I found to be very handy.

Second, the windshield washer reservoir had a warning light for when the solution was low. When that light was lit, it would take a full gallon of solution, so I never had to carry around a half empty jug of solution.

For the entire time I owned the car, I think we got a total of 6” of snow, spread out in smaller snowfalls. So I never got a chance to test out the 4-wheel drive.

 

[leakyroof]

Things went wrong on my Audi (though I avoided the sudden acceleration issue by buying a manual transmission) that don’t go wrong with other cars. And they went wrong repeatedly.

I burned out my windshield wiper motor, three times. I’ve never heard of a wiper motor failing.

Power steering pump, twice.

Power window switches, so often that they gave me a box of switches and showed me how to replace them—it took seconds.

Radio—I lost count—maybe 5 or 6 times. They ran out of radios in the USA. There was a 6 month wait. Instead, I contacted the German embassy, and asked for their foreign trade bureau. From there I got the president’s name and fax number. I sent a fax directly to him. The following day I got a phone call from the dealer. He would install a later model radio that they had in stock immediately. Apparently the German president did not want to be annoyed with American problems. But more likely the fax was read, the problem solved, and the president remained in the dark on the problem.

In any case, when there are problems with components on any manufactured item, and that problem persists, it is a sure indicator of a corrupt purchasing department. Someone is getting paid to ignore the problem and continue buying from the same source.

Until, like the radio problem, it becomes too big to ignore. Then a change in vendors will occur.

It is really hard to “un-corrupt” a purchasing department. The buyers teach the new salesmen the “rules of the road” and the salesmen teach the new buyers the “rules of the road”.

My customer, Rubbermaid, in the 1980s fired the entire purchasing department in Virginia, and they took over purchasing in Texas for that reason. I landed the account after that change. The director of purchasing came to visit us and explained that very problem and how they had to deal with it. They were replacing all their vendors; they fired all the purchasing agents. He was really telling us, be honest or be gone.

In any case, I’ve never bought another Audi. There were two things I liked about the car particularly. First, I could drive 500 miles between fill ups, which I found to be very handy.

Second, the windshield washer reservoir had a warning light for when the solution was low. When that light was lit, it would take a full gallon of solution, so I never had to carry around a half empty jug of solution.

For the entire time I owned the car, I think we got a total of 6” of snow, spread out in smaller snowfalls. So I never got a chance to test out the 4-wheel drive.

One of the reasons Radios were in short supply was rampant Radio theft out of Dashes. Smash and Grabs. VW and Audi were REALLY hit by this.
I knew a Quattro owner who literally left the doors unlocked so he wouldn't MAYBE get a smashed window while someone searched for his now-long-gone Radio. He'd gotten tired of fixing the Dash Damage and replacing the missing Radio that he no longer had one in the vehicle
Thieves couldn't be bothered to check his doors before crashing through a window glass, then find, oh, the door wasn't locked.

I don't remember Window Switches being a problem, but maybe it was contained to a certain model year range or switch style that we just hadn't experienced yet.

Wiper motors, hmm, in St Louis it wasn't a thing- Audi for us had A/C leaks, compressor issues, a known dash wiring issue where the wiring was undersized and cooked a connector. Automatic transmission issues galore, usually the Back to Back seals as they're known, which keep Gear Oil in the Final Drive, and ATF in the Automatic side of the Transaxle. These would fail, allowing ATF into the diff. Or the owner just beat on the vehicle, and cooked the transmission.
Power steering racks more than pumps, lots of water pumps and Timing Belt jobs. Radiators for running hot or overheating. Slightly weird set-up with the radiator NOT facing the nose of the vehicle straight on, but at an angle in the engine bay. Lots of front struts
NEVER experience the Run Away issue as it was known, we played around with the primitive engine controls that Audi had back then, like other vehicles really. Most we could do was an idle surge, but totally controllable with your foot on the brake while in a Gear.

If you had CIS Bosch injection, you were prone to injectors clogged up back then, or the seals/o-rings that sealed the injector to the intake manifold would harden with time/heat, and you'd have a vacuum leak. Gas Quality was a real issue for all Port Injected European Vehicles in the 80s. You really needed to run a cleaner like Chevron Techron back then in its original formulation. Deposits on the backs of the intake valves was a real issue for everybody.

 

[Packard]

One of the reasons Radios were in short supply was rampant Radio theft out of Dashes. Smash and Grabs. VW and Audi were REALLY hit by this.
I knew a Quattro owner who literally left the doors unlocked so he wouldn't MAYBE get a smashed window while someone searched for his now-long-gone Radio. He'd gotten tired of fixing the Dash Damage and replacing the missing Radio that he no longer had one in the vehicle
Thieves couldn't be bothered to check his doors before crashing through a window glass, then find, oh, the door wasn't locked.

I don't remember Window Switches being a problem, but maybe it was contained to a certain model year range or switch style that we just hadn't experienced yet.

Wiper motors, hmm, in St Louis it wasn't a thing- Audi for us had A/C leaks, compressor issues, a known dash wiring issue where the wiring was undersized and cooked a connector. Automatic transmission issues galore, usually the Back to Back seals as they're known, which keep Gear Oil in the Final Drive, and ATF in the Automatic side of the Transaxle. These would fail, allowing ATF into the diff. Or the owner just beat on the vehicle, and cooked the transmission.
Power steering racks more than pumps, lots of water pumps and Timing Belt jobs. Radiators for running hot or overheating. Slightly weird set-up with the radiator NOT facing the nose of the vehicle straight on, but at an angle in the engine bay. Lots of front struts
NEVER experience the Run Away issue as it was known, we played around with the primitive engine controls that Audi had back then, like other vehicles really. Most we could do was an idle surge, but totally controllable with your foot on the brake while in a Gear.

If you had CIS Bosch injection, you were prone to injectors clogged up back then, or the seals/o-rings that sealed the injector to the intake manifold would harded with time/heat, and you'd have a vacuum leak. Gas Quality was a real issue for all Port Injected European Vehicles in the 80s. You really needed to run a cleaner like Chevron Techron back then in its original formulation. Deposits on the backs of the intake valves was a real issue for everybody.

You obviously know more about the cars than I did.

I always thought that sudden acceleration was due to the oversized front wheel wells. The driver’s seat was angled slightly to accommodate that, and the pedals were were more inboard than normal. But I always felt that the seat was not angled as much as it should have been—perhaps because it would have looked odd to do so.

My car burned oil. About 1 quart per 1,000 miles when it got totaled. But it was getting worse steadily. The dealer said a quart per 1,000 miles was normal. “Normal” for me, is not burning oil at all.

 

[leakyroof]

You obviously know more about the cars than I did.

I always thought that sudden acceleration was due to the oversized front wheel wells. The driver’s seat was angled slightly to accommodate that, and the pedals were were more inboard than normal. But I always felt that the seat was not angled as much as it should have been—perhaps because it would have looked odd to do so.

My car burned oil. About 1 quart per 1,000 miles when it got totaled. But it was getting worse steadily. The dealer said a quart per 1,000 miles was normal. “Normal” for me, is not burning oil at all.

I believe the people investigating the whole Audi affair came to the same conclusion, pedal error on the part of the driver. But, it swept in the whole Interlock systems for needing to step on the brake pedal to allow an Automatic vehicle to get from Park down to a Gear.
Oil burner, wow. Did you have the 4 cyl or the larger 5 cyl engine?

 

[smorgasbord]

What is this I read about "starting a car?" I haven't done that in over a decade, except for my 21-year old, now officially "classic," pickup.
All my other cars are, and have been since 2011, electric. I just sit in them, press on the brake to shift into gear, and drive.
I don't "turn them off," either. I just put them in park and walk away.

We are halfway through the 3rd decade of the 21st century, folks.

 

[Michael Kellough]

What is this I read about "starting a car?" I haven't done that in over a decade, except for my 21-year old, now officially "classic," pickup.
All my other cars are, and have been since 2011, electric. I just sit in them, press on the brake to shift into gear, and drive.
I don't "turn them off," either. I just put them in park and walk away.

We are halfway through the 3rd decade of the 21st century, folks.

I was tempted to buy an electric car for errands but then I found out 1 kWh cost 37 cents delivered in NYC. Considered adding a few solar panels and batteries but what really killed the idea was the cost of insurance to cover a low use car. So instead of buying a small electric car and keeping my old minivan I just bought a new gasoline burning minivan.

 

[Packard]

I was tempted to buy an electric car errands but then I found out 1 kWh cost 37 cents delivered in NYC. Considered adding a few solar panels and batteries but what really killed the idea was the cost insurance to cover a low use car. So instead of buying a small electric car and keeping my old minivan I just bought a new gasoline burning minivan.

I believe that 90% of the SUV drivers would be better served with a 4 door sedan or a minivan. I’ve driven SUVs and I have owned one (kept it for 8 months and 8,000 miles before trading it in on a minivan), and I don’t see the reason for its being a mainstream vehicle.

When I worked, I would see every morning’s commute and every evening’s commute, large SUVs with just a driver in a business suit. Almost any car would be better suited for that purpose. I don’t get it; I never will.

 

[leakyroof]

I believe that 90% of the SUV drivers would be better served with a 4 door sedan or a minivan. I’ve driven SUVs and I have owned one (kept it for 8 months and 8,000 miles before trading it in on a minivan), and I don’t see the reason for its being a mainstream vehicle.

When I worked, I would see every morning’s commute and every evening’s commute, large SUVs with just a driver in a business suit. Almost any car would be better suited for that purpose. I don’t get it; I never will.

This has been quietly talked about in the Industry for years. Once MINIVANs became 'uncool' or, I won't be caught dead in one", then the SUVs grabbed hold in the Market and things haven't gone anywhere else in terms of sales. Even Sedans have been pushed out by SUVs, think of the Car Makers you'd NEVER expect to have gotten on the SUV model bandwagon. But, they were forced to offer something, or not have as much money coming in.
You are correct on all fronts really, SUVs weigh more, cost more to run and maintain, and have usually never matched the interior BOX room of many Minivans unless the designers really worked at it.
It was all about Marketing to people, vehicles that 'promised' the places you could drive to , off road even. And yet, so few ever drive off road or even on gravel roads. Look at what I went through with 24 years of Land Rover. They had that rep of world travel, shots of Africa on Safari filled potential owners heads in the Showrooms, and then the new vehicles promptly stayed on Asphalt for its entire life with the except of Driving Clinics or Off Road events that Dealers were required to hold each year as part of their Franchise Agreement....
Granted, in the Solid Axle Years, with the Discovery 1s and 2s, and the Range Rovers, there WERE people exploring the world around them often off the beaten path. So much of that changed with the vehicles having to change to stay ahead of the competition.
Then the new models came out, low profile tires, even more money up front for purchase cost, and the new crop of owners had ZERO plans to ever explore off pavement with their shiny new Land Rovers, or find out all the off-road features that LR kept in the vehicles, even while LR was whispering that no one used them...

Now that I'm with Mercedes, it's ahem, a G thing... as in G-Wagon. Mix of Solid Axle and Independent Suspension, still more cramped on the inside than you'd expect, and um, soooo practical for the money.....
I still marvel at how just 5 G-Wagons sitting on our Showroom floor total more than a Million dollars in sales price due to the pricing inflation that dealers add to the base cost from pure demand on these vehicles. And they sell, all the time. In all sorts of colors I wouldn't expect. And they get modified, even more BLING added. Amazing....

 

[Michael Kellough]

When at large parking lots it’s easy to compare the size of my plywood capable minivan with a variety of SUV’s, that are not capable of enclosing a sheet of plywood. Several of them seem just as large overall but peering inside they look puzzlingly small, compared to the minivan.

I think some of the prevalence of SUV’s is defensive. If everyone else is driving a 5000# vehicle what’s going to happen to when one of them crashes into my 3000# sedan? But I also get the cultural move away from “the socker Mom’s minivan”. Approaching an intersection in my minivan I sometimes see a guy in a truck or SUV appear to decide “she’ll give in” when considering pulling out in front of me despite my right of way. Sometimes I like to give them a good surprise. I’m paying a lot for insurance, might as well enjoy it.

Before buying the Pacifica minivan, while still enamored with the idea of using electrons to motivate the vehicle, I seriously considered the KIA Carnival minivan. Giving in the cultural preferences KIA doesn’t call it a minivan, it’s an MPV, multi purpose vehicle. Going further, they raised and bulked up the front end, but that’s what took it out of consideration for us, my wife said “Ugh, it looks like a truck”.

 

[Cheese]

I always thought the SUV phenomenon was because most men don't like the looks of a van and most women don't like the looks of a truck. The SUV love-fest was then just a natural middle ground for both sexes. And me...well, I prefer the looks of a 2-door coupe.

 

[leakyroof]

I always thought the SUV phenomenon was because most men don't like the looks of a van and most women don't like the looks of a truck. The SUV love-fest was then just a natural middle ground for both sexes. And me...well, I prefer the looks of a 2-door coupe.

eh, AWD and 4 wheel drive, ground clearance, and looks, plus marketing , plus peoples ego, all played into it. Going back to my comments about expensive Land Rovers and Mercedes G-Wagons... Will other, less expensive vehicles get your task done like these do. Yes. Will the interior be as cushy and nice- maybe not. And what will your neighbors think....
I added that last part since more than once have I overheard a Customer picking up a Loaner, and be angry or frustrated that it wasn't the same expensive model that they drove, or gasp, "my neighbors will think I'm going broke"... Not kidding here, they've actually said this to Service advisors out loud and meant it.

 

[Packard]

I bought a 2019 Honda CRV, new in early 2019. I got it loaded with virtually every possible option. A “Sport Utility Vehicle.” I found it not very sporty. I found it lacked much utility (It could not hold a 6’ long piece of lumber in the cargo area). And dangerous (except if you live in the Deep South.).

I traded it in on a 2019 Chrysler Pacifica mini van. By every objective criteria, the van was superior. It rode better, It held a full sheet of plywood in the rear cargo area, it was quieter on the road, and the accessories were more intelligently thought out. But mostly, the CRV, which had 4 wheel drive, was unsafe in the snow. And Honda (corporate) displayed a level of arrogance that I could not abide. I’m sure I lost several thousand dollars by trading in the car within the first year and with just 8,000 miles on the odometer.

My father once bought a car and a couple of months later traded it in. This was back when a new car lost half its value the minute you drove it off the new car lot. He said, “I’m not going to get up each morning and get in a car hate/don’t trust.” I’m my father’s son—except I’ve done that more often than he did.

The big gripe was that the CRV’s engine would not reach operating temperature unless it was driven at highway speeds. And once it did reach operating temperature, it would drop back toe “cold” while in local traffic.

Which means in a snow storm, no defroster. And no heat. I brought it back for service and was told that was the way the car was engineered. I heard the Honda had a “silent recall”, where they replaces the fuel injectors on all unsold vehicles to resolve this issue. They did that about a month after they sold me the car. I asked the area service rep. To make the same upgrade for my car and he said, “Honda does not acknowledge that there is a problem. If you want to replace the injectors (about $900.00), you will be billed for the work and you will have no assurance that it would address the issue.”

In an effort to improve mileage, Honda installed fuel injectors that widely spread the atomized gas. The theory was that it would enhance combustion. What it did was wash the oil from the cylinder walls causing premature wear, and cooling the cylinder walls by evaporation. They also used a very thin wall aluminum block.

I got stuck in a snow storm that made my 1-hour commute home take from noon to 1:00 a.m. —13 hours, with steady snow and no heat. And I had to climb out of the car every couple of miles to clear the windshield. I traded in the car the next day (but it took several days to arrive.)

The Canadian D.O.T. Was considering a recall for that problem. I don’t know how that played out.

The car also had a truly idiotic “intelligent cruise control”. Instead of a “lane departure assist”, which corrals you back within the lane, it had a “lane keep assist” which kept you centered in the lane.

The lane departure assist requires the drivers attention. The lane keep assist, if it is working correctly, will steer the car automatically. But the legal department requires that the driver’s attention be monitored. In the better systems, they incorporate facial recognition software to determine that you are paying attention to the road. Honda required that the driver make frequent steering imputs to verify that the drive is paying attention.

The net result is, if the system is working well, it would turn itself off. If it was not working well and required driver input, then it would continue to function. Net effect: Cruise control kept turning off.

They also bragged about “slow speed follow” function, that would allow the car to stop and go in heavy traffic. But if the traffic stopped for more than 10 seconds it was turn itself off. Which meant it was pretty useless there too.

In any case, I was very happy to be rid of that car, and I vowed never to own another Honda product. I’m not sure that Honda cares though.

 

[Mini Me]

What a fascinating view of American car buying criteria, designing and buying cars around a sheet of plywood.

 

[PaulH99]

When I was in college (Syracuse, NY) and I would drive home, I would always take off my overcoat for that trip. I did not have a down jacket back then and my coat was bulky and stiff. And the trip was about 6 hours, so worth the effort. But this is the first I am trying this tactic since then. I am curious as to how it works out.

I went to RIT in Rochester, NY. The words "Lake Effect Snow" are forever etched in my brain.

 

[Michael Kellough]

What a fascinating view of American car buying criteria, designing and buying cars around a sheet of plywood.

It is odd, but how do you all deal with it, especially in inclement weather? Our regular sized plywood is 4 feet by 8 feet (123cm x 244cm)

 

[luvmytoolz]

It is odd, but how do you all deal with it, especially in inclement weather? Our regular sized plywood is 4 feet by 8 feet (123cm x 244cm)

We all drive ute's here, and in Melb we get all the seasons in one day so we don't care about the weather most of the time! ;-)

Ute's and SUV's generally tie for number one spot here in OZ, with each edging the other out alternately each year or so.

 

[Packard]

We all drive ute's here, and in Melb we get all the seasons in one day so we don't care about the weather most of the time! ;-)

Ute's and SUV's generally tie for number one spot here in OZ, with each edging the other out alternately each year or so.

“Ute’s” are pickup trucks??

 

[luvmytoolz]

“Ute’s” are pickup trucks??

Yes, Aussie slang for "utility" I think. They're extremely popular here, always at the top of the sales in Oz.