Metric measures

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Mar 31, 2015
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I do not have any metric measures and will be building the newest Ron Paulk workbench. His newest plans are only in metic. What specific metric measuring products would you suggest the not only cover this project, but will be nice to have I the future?
 
Not an endorsement for any particular product, just a technique.
Ignore the existance of centimetres. Just use millimeters or metres for the building size stuff. Centimetres are for teachers and dressmakers and generally just confuse matters.
 
Fastcap true 32 for tape, Incra/Woodpeckers for other stuff....Be careful

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I like folding rules like these from Lee Valley, but I also have a metric tape and a metric Woodpeckers rule.
A calculator that does conversions comes in handy too.

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I've been buying various ones to try.

The Fastcap one from a mechanics standpoint is a bad tape measure, it sticks, the latch works poorly, etc. But it has one thing that makes it my go too. It's a mm Metric tape.  All the others I have bought are cm taps which makes them annoying as all heck. When you start working on something out beyond a meter, it's very easy to get yourself in the wrong place.  The fastcap has no cm markings, which makes it easy to use/read/etc.

I have others, a

Komelon 8m, mechanically nice, but is a cm unit.
Starrett 5m, the latch sucks, not the easiest to read, again a cm unit.

I have a hultafers tape that people mentioned here. I have it at work, it's very stabby, I've bleed on it a few times.  It's neat and has a function to measure diameters, still not great.

Really haven't found the end all.  But the fastcap definitively gets honors for being in mm and not cm.
 
BMI VISO and BMI meter pocket tape are always in my pocket. Nothing compares.
 
Hultafors Talmeter is the best tape measure I have ever had, love the reverse locking of the tape (i.e. you press the lock to release and it holds the tape when not depressed). Also the marking tip is the best thing after sliced bread when you just need to quickly mark your measures on wood - just scratchmark with the tapemeasure's integrated scratch tip.

Other good household makes are Bahco-tools and ofc. the high-end Woopecker, Incra, etc. fancy expensive metric versions are obviously just as good as their imperial breathren.

As someone already mentioned above dimensioning and planning is always done in millimeters and never in centimetres unless you are talking on several meters worth where you don't need mm resolution. i.e. you would talk about 600mm doors (24") but you could use 450cm for say a wall lenght dimension in the floorplan.

I guess what it boils down to is to use the unit type your final dimension needs to accurate to all over.

I mean you don't want a +-1cm gap in a cupboard door so you would not define it's size as 60cm but rather you want a 1-2mm relief around the door so using 600mm +-1mm is acceptable.

In woodworking you NEVER need to go to ½mm resolution in anything so that's an metal engineering measuring equipment.
 
I don't mean for anyone to take this the wrong way but as a born and raised metric person (The Netherlands) to hear the centimeter described as "confusing" (vs feet/inches/fractions) is a bit bizarre.
 
Sanderxpander said:
I don't mean for anyone to take this the wrong way but as a born and raised metric person (The Netherlands) to hear the centimeter described as "confusing" (vs feet/inches/fractions) is a bit bizarre.

Raised metric here and for me cms just don't exist. They don't help and in engineering as well as building we dont use them. Metres and millimeters yes, cms? Naah.

4500 mms would also be 4.5 m. It's just how we do it over here.
The numbers work out so far different in scale that theres less possibility of confused sizes.
None of that 450 cms stuff and if anyone uses a decimal point in a measurement thats not come off a vernier caliper its a metres size.
Mms are small enough that I'm not playing with decimal points in general carpentry work
 
I could never possibly confuse 15 cm with mm or meter for anything I'm doing because the order of magnitude is so different. At the same time, the calculation between them is so easy (add or remove a zero) that I don't get the fuss. It must be me. Feet and inches and fractions confuse the heck out of me, especially when adding or subtracting them.

By the way, I've never had or even seen any metric tape measure or ruler or combination square that didn't have centimeters on them as main distance markers. Hultafors, Incra, Starrett, all mentioned here, all centimeters. Fastcap is the only one I've heard of that's in millimeters.
 
demographic said:
Not an endorsement for any particular product, just a technique.
Ignore the existance of centimetres. Just use millimeters or metres for the building size stuff. Centimetres are for teachers and dressmakers and generally just confuse matters.

And OB/GYNs
 
Sanderxpander said:
By the way, I've never had or even seen any metric tape measure or ruler or combination square that didn't have centimeters on them as main distance markers. Hultafors, Incra, Starrett, all mentioned here, all centimeters. Fastcap is the only one I've heard of that's in millimeters.

Well, yes - one would use cm's for measuring devices just because each cm = 10mm and makes the numbers legible on a narrow tape. Having a 6m measuring tape would make the text quite small to try to squeeze in 6000mm at the end  [tongue]
 
Millimetres have always been a favoured system, mainly for accuracy. As somebody that grew up with imperial, then because of our EE ties, we all had to learn metric. I can work in imperial, and everything in metric, millimetres, centimetres, metres and kilometres etc, etc.

We only work in millimetres in my company, and so do most of my associates in the building trade, simply because it’s quick and easy, just as others have said.

To the OP, if you’re serious about switching to metric, I would just get used to buying everything in metric. After a while, you won’t want to revert.
 
Go to that really big auction site and search for PEC metric.

There is one seller, taylortoolworks, that has a significant assortment posted. Some are perfect, some are seconds. The seconds are cosmetic blemishes not accuracy related. I have several items that I use for my daily work. I've held them up side by side with my Starrett's and on the mm and 64th scale they match perfectly. The materials on the Starrett are much nicer. However a Starrett 30mm square is $100 and a PEC is $33.
 
Reiska said:
Sanderxpander said:
By the way, I've never had or even seen any metric tape measure or ruler or combination square that didn't have centimeters on them as main distance markers. Hultafors, Incra, Starrett, all mentioned here, all centimeters. Fastcap is the only one I've heard of that's in millimeters.

Well, yes - one would use cm's for measuring devices just because each cm = 10mm and makes the numbers legible on a narrow tape. Having a 6m measuring tape would make the text quite small to try to squeeze in 6000mm at the end  [tongue]
And it's trivial to convert between the two which was my point.
 
Sanderxpander said:
I don't mean for anyone to take this the wrong way but as a born and raised metric person (The Netherlands) to hear the centimeter described as "confusing" (vs feet/inches/fractions) is a bit bizarre.

CMS has basically been replaced by MGS globally.  From personal experience and from other discussions here, it's understood areas around the Netherlands do use cm a fair bit, but globally it's not the norm.  Centimeters don't work well with the rest of the system as they are a kilo, mega, etc 3 place shift.  Just like how decimeters are not used. In the US centimeters are often brought up when go over metric with kids, and tend to be spoken by people who don't use metric. For those who do use metric a lot, they are almost never used.  Often they can't be used because the field or contract simply won't allow them. Also tools (software) is default mm.  Engineering drawings if in metric are mm-kg-s.  As others mentioned, usage of cm is in general a casual usage thing, not something people would generally use operationally.  Not really any different than how Yards are perfectly valid in the inch system, but you don't use them on drawings, design, etc. But in casual usage for how far away something is, sure.

Centimeters defeat one of the primary benefits of metric over inch.  With mm, almost everything you do is whole units, not decimals. Needing less than 1mm is un-common, yet 1mm works out nice as a base thickness.  Even in engineering work it's nice as most all dimensions are whole mm numbers. Not many things get over 1m, and when they do mm still work fine up thru 10m. 1mm is ~.040" which is a classic big tolerance, and 0.1mm is a good tighter tolerance limit  .004" (aka about 1 sheet of paper).  So designing stuff you are always in mm, and only introduce a decimal on things where you have to like hole tolerancing, surfaces, profiles, etc. It just works out really well. We don't say 1cm bolt, or 1.8cm bolt or 0.6cm bolt, we say 6, 10, 18mm bolts, it's just so much cleaner/easier.  0.5mm pencil comes across much better than .05cm pencil. Centimeters mean you loose that and now have a decimal place all the time, now your back to the same headaches as inches.

Using cm and mm together gets real confusing. This is where the tape measures cause problem.  You got a number in your head say 1106mm,  you go to your cm tape and go past 100 (the 1 meter mark) to 106, make mark.  Now you just messed up, you are off by 46mm.  You ended up making your mark at 1060mm, not the 1106 mark you intended.  You have just killed the beauty of metric.

Since stuff when listed with it's proper metric designations are listed in mm,  introducing cm to the mix is a headache and its the very thing that causes people not to want to work in metric.  Almost universally those I find who hate metric or find it dumb speak of cm when pointing out the issues/flaws and to some degree they have a point.  Where those who do work in mm, almost never use/speak of  cm.  Tape measures are this strange thing where ones that are metric tend to be cm, which is just annoying since nothing else metric is listed in cm. Thankfully Festool doesn't recognize cm and sticks to mm (except when they ditch metric all together).
 
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