metrically challenged, need help !!

stevelf

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Joined
Mar 19, 2008
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54
--I've tried to make peace with metric, but I need guidance, help...
  Is there some Festool-friendly-oriented site that can make me more comfortable with comprehending metric/ Imperial simultaneous understanding. It's an element of ongoing , shall we say discomfort, that I want to alleviate from my Festool experience... Thanks for any sympathy !!
 
For me anyway, I've stopped using imperial. It's made easier by being in Australia, but I'd like to think I would have done so anyway. It makes things SO much easier to have no fractionals.....
 
get yourself a calculator that converts fractions to decimals and  a metric tape measure.  it is that easy.    soon you will forget that fractions exsist, and you will sleep better.       
 
     
 
I work in millimeters, 1 millimeter is 1000th of a meter.

500mm = half a meter
1200mm = 1.2 meters
2400mm = 2.4m
and so forth

1" = 25.4mm

an 8'x4' sheet approximately = 1220mm x 2440mm

get metric measuring equipment.
 
There are also several companies, Festool included, that make tape measures and rulers with both Metric and Imperial measurements.  I use the FastCap tapes.
 
mwhafner.  How satisfied are you with the fast cap tape measures?  I had one and failed (well, I gave it a lot of stress, it failed because my fault) but the problem is the measures are a little short (not accurate).

I have a Unisaw table saw and the Biesemeyer fence has both metric and imperial. I checked the imperial with my incra rules and they are right on!.  The fastcap is not accurate and always is a little short.  I tried several in my local woodcraft store and all of them had the same problem (metric or imperial same problem).

stevelf  Talking about converting from imperial to metric, let me tell you that I now live in USA, but my home country is El Salvador in Central America.  We have a mix of different measures, we use gallons for gasoline, pints, bottles for milk, litters for water.  We use pounds for weigith, KM to measure streets, manzana to measure farm land (it is an old measure from spain), we use varas (it is a little smaller than a yard).  We use cm to measure but we don't use mm much, unless you require a very accurate measure at school.

So it is a big mess, you can tell, well when I came to USA, I had to face imperial and it was a big headache.  I still count the little marks in my tape measure to know 5/16 or 3/32 etc.  What I did to alleviate my problem is using the tape measure and forget about imperial or metric. I don't care what is larger 3/32 or 1/16, what I do is I see the big number (in this case inches) and I count or look how many marks (3 small lines or 1 medium line or whatever) and transfer that to my material.  I am using my tape measure as story stick more or less.

You can do the same if you have a metric tape measure forget about what it is ( metric or imperial) and just see the numbers as a reference and count the marks.  Metric tape measures are easy because they have only one type of marks between the big numbers.

Don't try to convert and make your life easier using the tape measure like that.

 
I have a couple, one a standard tape, and one is a flatback.  I had to adjust the tab on one a little, but they are dead on.  I check them frequently, to calibrate with my laser.  Maybe they just had a bad batch.  The flatbacks are great for laying out cuts on sheet goods.
 
For small measurements, using digital calipers makes it easy to convert from one to the other.  Also, Woodcraft carries a metric story stick that you might find useful.
 
I have a bunch of the Incra and woodpecker measuring devices..

I wonder why Woodpecker and Incra don't  make a tape measure up to their standards in both metric and imperial. I would think they would make sure the accuracy and precision matched their other tools across the board. I would buy one in a minute.

If they do offer one let me know. I have never seen one.

Festool failed miserably with their tape. The flat backs are good but not durable and it is hit or miss on whether they are very accurate.
 
Thanks for the replies...
  I have a metric tape which I pull out when I need to. I was thinking more along the lines of being comfortable with metric while using Festools. For example, the planer's hand adjustment. I now go more by small, intuitive adjustments , rather than trying to figure out how their metric #'s convert to Imperial. I know this is pretty basic stuff here, but it's confusing. Like anything, it's easy if you know how...
 
You can do the same thing I explained before with the tape.

Let's say the Domino, You want to center the height, you will go crazy trying to do it with measurement.  If I want to join to boards where the height is not important much, use the stop pins and butt joint with one side of the wood and try to make it at the middle and then tight the levers.

Both pieces will match because they have the same height.  If you want to give a reveal, after having the middle as I explained before then look at the marks and see how many more or less marks looks all right for the reveal, move the height to that position tight the levers and voila you have the reveal and you didn't have to measure anything.

That is what I do and everything looks fine and I don't have to worry with conversions.

Same apply to other tools like TS55 and just eye ball the depth before cutting and then make the cut.

One caveat here, this is my hobby so I don't do this for living but If you see some masters like David Marks and others they don't measure they use the story stick more or less.

Try it and see if this fit your way of work.
 
stevelf you are totally doing it right. There is nothing wrong doing it by feel. I use measurements whether metric or Imperial as little as possible. Half the time I do not know the angle or lengths I am working with, scribing and by intuition causes less mistakes than using the measurements directly anyway.

Some people jump right into the metric for me getting a tape with both and just noting the metric scale every time I used a measurement finally I just memorized that 1" is about 25 1/2 millimeters.

Maybe the dual tape would help you, it worked for some. I still like imperial because the measurements seem simpler to visualize for me. I did have loads of science in college so metric was always used but in woodworking I still think in Imperial.

And as for long distances(nothing to do with woodworking) there really is no substitute for running a mile race, its the perfect distance for a running race to me.
 
Oh, the questions.
a) fastcap tapes. I had to return one that was about 1/16 off.
b) learning metric - throw away all dual tapes. Dive into the metric only. Can be learned in two weeks.
c) follow the suggestions here. A converting calculator helps a lot.

And I agree with the comment that for smaller measures, the metric is highly preferable. No fractions, easy to estimate and to use in formulas (area, etc).

For larger measures, our heads can glomp onto yards and feet. I can't imagine building a house using metrics. Of course being fat, old and silly, I can't imagine building a house at all. Ha!

Gary Curtis
 
See, the dual tapes do not work for some, but straight out telling telling everyone that is having problems not to try it? That is not the best idea.

That's what worked for me I am sticking to that.

Everyone thinks differently so throwing out dual tapes is great for certain people, but not for all.

And Metric can be learned in 1 day for some and months for others.
 
Like most of the US users on this forum, we are stuck in between worlds.  The metric / imperial tape just makes it easy for me. 

Tape measures are inherently inaccurate, but a necessary evil.  I have a Starrett "precision" tape, that really isn't much better than any other.  Tips get bent, etc.  I use my laser and folding rule the vast majority of the time, but sometimes a tape is the way to go.

Since starting use the laser measures, I just make sure that my tapes and laser are calibrated.  So far, I really like the FastCap tapes.  To me, as long as both tapes, my rule, and the laser are in sych, I can work.  I check frequently, and they are dead on.

I wish I could find a folding rule that had both metric and imperial measurements, but I haven't found one yet.
 
Therein lies the rub.  I can't find one that has the sliding extension.  You are correct, at least in my experience, without the sliding extension a rule is worthless.
 
used my planer today to take 1/16 off of 10, 20' pieces of 5/4  X 5 3/8  Ipe that I'm working with (on the 1" side...).
  Smooth as silk, and I observed that my hand-adjustment was set at 2 (mm's  ?? ), which gave me my perfect 1/ 16...So I am making progress...I sure wish Jimmy Carter had been more successful trying to make us convert to metric, way back then. I seem to remember actually seeing gas for sale by the litre here in the States...
  I saw someone mention Fast Cap. Do you guys use their 2P-10 ??? Great stuff for the right application...
 
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