MFT/3 - Pros and Cons from Different Perspectives

[skids]

I know this has been mentioned before, can't seem to locate it. What is the clearance when running the TS55r along a wall?

Doesn't this kind of change the game for HW floor installs? I mean, you don't have to worry about spacing on adjacent walls anymore correct? Just lay your first board out square and go right?

I'm afraid it doesn't really work like that.  Personally, I don't think the new closer to the wall feature is a big deal.  Throwing down a few spacers in no problem.  Also, it's more work to cut it afterward, and you'd still need to figure out a way to cut the ends where the TS55 couldn't reach.  As a jamb saw, then maybe this feature is useful.   

excellent points Brice. I am still struggling to see why I should prioritze buying the TS saw over some of my other immediate needs quite honestly. I own a table saw, and at the moment won't be breaking down alot of sheet goods until I decide to tackle some cabinets. What else can this thing do that I am missing?

I want the MFT table and a router more than the TS. And I want someone to make me feel better about the fact I am spending thousands trying to complete this system!!!

 

[Brice Burrell]

excellent points Brice. I am still struggling to see why I should prioritze buying the TS saw over some of my other immediate needs quite honestly. I own a table saw, and at the moment won't be breaking down alot of sheet goods until I decide to tackle some cabinets. What else can this thing do that I am missing?

I want the MFT table and a router more than the TS. And I want someone to make me feel better about the fact I am spending thousands trying to complete this system!!!

Do not get preoccupied with the (perceived or real) increase in value and/or productivity in having the complete system.  Don't get me wrong, there can be real increases in value and productivity with a complete Festool system.  I remember Dan Clark once said the Festool system has a real increase in synergy with each part you add.  However, if you can't or aren't ready to take advantage of this synergy, then what is there to gain?  I'd suggest you hold out and be realistic about your needs, verses wants.  

Edit: misspelled Dan Clark's name. [embarassed]

 

[skids]

excellent points Brice. I am still struggling to see why I should prioritze buying the TS saw over some of my other immediate needs quite honestly. I own a table saw, and at the moment won't be breaking down alot of sheet goods until I decide to tackle some cabinets. What else can this thing do that I am missing?

I want the MFT table and a router more than the TS. And I want someone to make me feel better about the fact I am spending thousands trying to complete this system!!!

Do not get preoccupied with the (perceived or real) increase in value and/or productivity in having the complete system.  Don't get me wrong, there can be real increases in value and productivity with a complete Festool system.  I remember Dan Clack once said the Festool system has a real increase in synergy with each part you add.  However, if you can't or aren't ready to take advantage of this synergy, then what is there to gain?  I'd suggest you hold out and be realistic about your needs, verses wants.   

Well said my friend, well said.  [wink]

 

[GhostFist]

In regards to the benefits of a tracksaw, try running an entire deck through a tablesaw. Track saws are THE thing for clean  and accurate cuts on large or otherwise akward pieces. Once you get one you'll realize how valuable they are.

 

[Connollyir]

In regards to the benefits of a tracksaw, try running an entire deck through a tablesaw. Track saws are THE thing for clean  and accurate cuts on large or otherwise akward pieces. Once you get one you'll realize how valuable they are.

Unless you have a panel saw, track saws cannot be beat for taking down sheet goods IMO. Instead of wrestling the panel to the saw or cutting long and trimming with a router and straightedge, you bring the saw to the work wherever it is. Use a piece of strapping and cut right off the stack, throw down some foam on the floor and cut on that, sawhorses.... whatever. I work alone most of the time and swinging plywood around gets old after the third or fourth sheet. The TS gets high marks for me with just those capabilities alone, nevermind the other uses.

-Ian

 

[skids]

In regards to the benefits of a tracksaw, try running an entire deck through a tablesaw. Track saws are THE thing for clean  and accurate cuts on large or otherwise akward pieces. Once you get one you'll realize how valuable they are.

Unless you have a panel saw, track saws cannot be beat for taking down sheet goods IMO. Instead of wrestling the panel to the saw or cutting long and trimming with a router and straightedge, you bring the saw to the work wherever it is. Use a piece of strapping and cut right off the stack, throw down some foam on the floor and cut on that, sawhorses.... whatever. I work alone most of the time and swinging plywood around gets old after the third or fourth sheet. The TS gets high marks for me with just those capabilities alone, nevermind the other uses.

-Ian

Thanks Ian..DO you have the MFT?

 

[GhostFist]

Panel saws aren't exactly portable, as much as I love them. Track saws are in a league of their own. Not a replacement altogether for other tools, they just allow greater flexibility and I find, simpler solutions to some otherwise finicky problems.

 

[Connollyir]

Panel saws aren't exactly portable, as much as I love them. Track saws are in a league of their own. Not a replacement altogether for other tools, they just allow greater flexibility and I find, simpler solutions to some otherwise finicky problems.

Quite right, and I didn't mean to imply that they were, but in a proper location in the shop they can be very useful. My money however is better spent on a track saw like the new TS 55 I'm waiting to buy.

-Ian

 

[Connollyir]

In regards to the benefits of a tracksaw, try running an entire deck through a tablesaw. Track saws are THE thing for clean  and accurate cuts on large or otherwise akward pieces. Once you get one you'll realize how valuable they are.

Unless you have a panel saw, track saws cannot be beat for taking down sheet goods IMO. Instead of wrestling the panel to the saw or cutting long and trimming with a router and straightedge, you bring the saw to the work wherever it is. Use a piece of strapping and cut right off the stack, throw down some foam on the floor and cut on that, sawhorses.... whatever. I work alone most of the time and swinging plywood around gets old after the third or fourth sheet. The TS gets high marks for me with just those capabilities alone, nevermind the other uses.

-Ian

Thanks Ian..DO you have the MFT?

Skids,

Not yet... My background is rooted in hand tools and my benches are traditional designs. I have a 30"x96" Fir and MDF bench with lots of dog holes like the MFT and a small knock-down Roubo style bench I take to jobs when I need to - that has only 3 dog holes in it. I use holdfasts and clamps for most of my work holding needs due to the thick tops.

I looked into Festool years ago because I needed to increase production to keep up with demand and make more money. The fact that everything is geared to be mobile has turned out brilliantly for me, especially now that I have to move shop to a less convenient location. I already purchased plans for and will soon build Tim's MFTC as my first "true" MFT as part of my migration into the "Festool world".

-Ian

 

[skids]

Most of my background has been remodel work, basements, decks, and lately alot more finish work. But mainly on my own home and friends and family's homes. My finish skills are still being refined (have a friend in the business as a resource), but this is the work I have grown to REALLY enjoy. I essentially want to get into building some cabinets here and there, and doing some built ins as well. So ultimately the TS saw is part of the system I would want to get. Albeit an expensive path to follow for executing on these tasks as a DIYr/hobbyist, this is where my head is at with my pursuit of Festool. I don't have an immediate need for the TS right now but know eventually I would want to have it available to me.  It's just a matter of when I get it..Right now I am slated to get a new Festool however-was leaning towards router. Decisions, decisions

 

[Connollyir]

Most of my background has been remodel work, basements, decks, and lately alot more finish work. But mainly on my own home and friends and family's homes. My finish skills are still being refined (have a friend in the business as a resource), but this is the work I have grown to REALLY enjoy. I essentially want to get into building some cabinets here and there, and doing some built ins as well. So ultimately the TS saw is part of the system I would want to get. Albeit an expensive path to follow for executing on these tasks as a DIYr/hobbyist, this is where my head is at with my pursuit of Festool. I don't have an immediate need for the TS right now but know eventually I would want to have it available to me.  It's just a matter of when I get it..Right now I am slated to get a new Festool however-was leaning towards router. Decisions, decisions

Skids,

I think Brice was correct saying that sometimes you need to hold back and only get what you "need". Just because these tools are engineered to play nice together doesn't mean you NEED them to do the job - a substitute for the TS would be a straightedge, some clamps, and a circular saw. Is it slower and more cumbersome? Definitely, but as a hobbyist speed isn't necessarily critical.

I worked for a long time with my bandsaw being the only powered tool I owned, everything else I made or cleaned up from a flea market because I couldn't justify the cost of power tools. Frankly the only reason I can now, especially with Festool, is because they make it easier for me to make rent.

-Ian

 

[Julian Tracy]

Why on Earth would you get a MFT if not specifically for the initial needed use of large pc 90 degree cross cutting?  That is what it shines at and would be the only PRIMARY reason to justify the expense.

All of the related clamping, positioning and general work surface options are just gravy (added benefits).

Lord knows each of us could build a slightly wobbly work table with holes for a lt less than $600.  Unless you need the ability to accurately cut or route wide straight or angled cuts, it makes little sense to soend the dough on imo.

And I have a MFT3, but it certainly doesnt get lugged aroud to every job just to be used as a worksurface....

Julian

 

[skids]

Why on Earth would you get a MFT if not specifically for the initial needed use of large pc 90 degree cross cutting?  That is what it shines at and would be the only PRIMARY reason to justify the expense.

All of the related clamping, positioning and general work surface options are just gravy (added benefits).

Lord knows each of us could build a slightly wobbly work table with holes for a lt less than $600.  Unless you need the ability to accurately cut or route wide straight or angled cuts, it makes little sense to soend the dough on imo.

And I have a MFT3, but it certainly doesnt get lugged aroud to every job just to be used as a worksurface....

Julian

I hear ya..But then what do you suggest I do with this pile of cash I set aside for Festool?  [wink]

Honestly though, I see you point and I have used the clamp/straightedge/circ saw technique for years for sheet goods. It's sufficient I suppose, not the preferred method, especially when I have a dust collector sitting there staring me in the face.

My hope was, like other Festools I have purchased, is these things would open up some new possibilities for me. Yes it's an expensive way to pursue that I agree. And I would most certainly find uses in my regular work as well. My Kapex has made my work better, easier to understand and more efficient. But I KNEW with the Kapex it was going to get alot of use since the miter saw has always been the centerpiece of the work I do. But I want more capabilities, and I want to take on some finish work that these tools will be put to good use for.

Thanks for the feedback I appreciate hearing a more pragmatic view on it. I think I may be diseased..Occasionally, I even look for green knobs on things that aren't even Festool. ; )

 

[Julian Tracy]

I'm not suggesting you don't buy a TS saw - I'd be the first to tell you that they're worth buying if you need to do any sheetgoods or case work.  Of all the Festools, the saws are certainly a good value for the price and what they'll do for you.  As an aside to that though, there are a few other options out there like the Makita if money's an object.  I saw one of those in person the other day and was very impressed with it's fit and finish and some of the great features, like the scoring function and the bevel lock.

I have the TS55 and love it, though I wish it had a bit more umph to it it power-wise.  My commentary was one the MFT which everyone here gushes about as a must-have, but I don't see it unless you specifically are intending to use it mostly for the TS55 and crosscutting.  Yea, it's a great clamping table with many options, but $700 great?  Not much use for hand tools either as it's certainly a bit less than stable compared to most work benches/tables.

So I love my MFT as it gives me one of the only ways on a jobsite to do long accurate 90 degree cross-cuts with near perfect edges.  But for those that suggest you buy it first or don't consider whether you need that kind of capability, I think it's just spend your money advice.

JT

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I hate using my 55 with the fence and rail on my mft/3. It is slow, awkward and the fence and rail are always in the way.

You have to set the saw down, lift the rail, move the piece, set the rail back down, pick up the saw, not fast or easy.

I like my mft/3, but I should have bought the bare table as I have only used the fence and rail a few times.

It took me 4 hours to find the parts so I could use it the last time. I don't own a radial arm saw either.

 

[skids]

I hate using my 55 with the fence and rail on my mft/3. It is slow, awkward and the fence and rail are always in the way.

You have to set the saw down, lift the rail, move the piece, set the rail back down, pick up the saw, not fast or easy.

I like my mft/3, but I should have bought the bare table as I have only used the fence and rail a few times.

It took me 4 hours to find the parts so I could use it the last time. I don't own a radial arm saw either.

I kind of see this point here, for myself anyway..It's the clamping and ability I like on the MFT. So that begs the question, what do you use your MFT for then primarily?

I don't have a work surface I have 360 degree access too. Meaning walk around it, move it etc. I like that aspect of the MFT as well. I know I would use it alot, maybe not quite be able to justify $600 for it, but would put it too use.

 

[GhostFist]

As far as clamping ability goes, you can poke holes in whatever whatever you like for your own custom table. Lots of great options on shop made mft's. Check out the MFTC on this forum. I don't own an mft myself, I don't feel it fits my needs enough to justify the price

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

It gets used on every trim install I do. I have a fixture that holds my crown while I cope, I do use it with my 55 to cut on, but not with the fence and rail.

I made a couple blocks for it to hold doors on edge for routing hinges in, I clamp stuff to the side rails to cut steep angles with my 55, I use it with my domino all the time, lots of different things which is why the fence and rail crap is always in my way.

 

[skids]

It gets used on every trim install I do. I have a fixture that holds my crown while I cope, I do use it with my 55 to cut on, but not with the fence and rail.

I made a couple blocks for it to hold doors on edge for routing hinges in, I clamp stuff to the side rails to cut steep angles with my 55, I use it with my domino all the time, lots of different things which is why the fence and rail crap is always in my way.

You just answered some of the questions on how I would potentially use this thing in more of a freehand way with the 55. Thx..I see myself coming to the table to do alot of what you just described, coping especially. I like the idea you have for routing hinges, although I haven't got involved in any doors outside of shortening pre hungs. Point is, I want this flexibility, and I can see that fence being in my way, and I own a table saw that I get good cuts out of for smaller pieces for boxes and such. Although I bet the MFT is more accurate than my Bosch saw. I do HATE ripping full sheets on the table saw, not sure if the MFT can even handle a FULL sheet. Also not something I do all the time, but a nice added flexibility to have on tap. I am still not convinced the MFT replaces the table saw, can't see it to be honest. Recently I had to resaw some material to angle some plinths..How could the TS/MFT accomplish that?

I honestly think I would throw the fence aside and use it less frequently than a cabinet guy. But...If I am packaging it the set, the 10% discount almost justifies that a bit more. And sadly, I do like package deals..

 

[Julian Tracy]

The MFT is Apples and Oranges to a tablesaw.  It's not for sheet goods or for ripping.  In terms of using it with the TS saw with the rail and fence, it's simply for cutting super accurate wide staright and angled cross-cuts.  That's something a table saw does not do at all, unless you've got a slider of some sort.

Sure it's great for door work and trim coping, sanding, etc., but to buy it and plan not to use it for cutting or at least guide rail routing is to spend a lot of money for a wobbly tavle with holes - not sure about the rest of you, but I ask a lot more from the money I spend on tools.

To hear the MFT talked up around here surely results in a lot of newbies buying it, unpacking it and then wondering what the heck ELSE it does for $600 that makes everyone here so glowingly fond of it.

I realize that maybe I need a class to help me figure out why I don't use my mft more...

JT