mft/ts55 accuracy and squareness

[Adon]

Hi all,

I am working on a new project (a small cabinet to hold my systainers) after getting the mft/ts55 set. I am having a problem getting cuts within 1mm accuracy.  For example, I just cut a piece 450mm x 380mm. I needed a second piece exactly the same which I cut to about 438mmx370mm. All the other cuts (except for 1) I have made are out by approximately 1mm. I measure numerous time before cutting, and double check squareness. The last cut was using the rail on the mft, others were with the rail clamped to the board. I always clamp to the table and/or board. Marks are made with a pencil, magnifying glass, and an engineers square. The rail on the table is squared according to the standard method.

Part of the problem might be squareness, which I have been having a problem with - after I make the squaring cuts the opposite edges are out by 1mm. I fix it by aligning the rail flush with the narrow end and 1mm in from the edge on the wide end.

I would appreciate hearing what you think as I am seriously considering returning the set, and buying a table saw. Thanks.

Signed,

Very Frustrated.

 

[abgoto]

I had some similiar issues when I first purchased a TS55/MFT combo.  In my case, I had not ensured that the guide rail was square to the fence rail.  Did you buy the MFT/3 or the MFT/3 Basic?  Assuming you have the former, it sounds like  what you are looking for is repeatability.  No need to clamp the board to the table or the rail to the board.  Take your measurement, line up the squared rail on your marked line, then set a flag stop on the fence rail for that distance.  Use the flag stop for cuts on  all subsequent boards.  Hope this helps.

 

[peter halle]

Sorry to hear about your frustration.  When you are making your cuts either with the rail by itself or on the MFT, is your good piece to the left or the right of the splinter strip on the rail?  Have you made sure that the rail is completely engaging the prong on the front rail braket of the MFT?  If you wiggle your saw side to side on the rail do you feel any size to side movement (try this at baseplate level)?

Peter

 

[Adon]

Hi abgoto and Peter. I have the MFT/3 set. As for repeatability, for the current project I'm not making many repetitive cuts. The starting boards were as wide as the table so I removed the fence initially and just used the rail.

I've been cutting with the good piece to the left of the rail/strip. The prong on the front of the table seems to be a tight fit - there's no perceptible play there.

 

[peter halle]

I'm surprised that others haven't offered advice because setting up the MFT is one situation that we get many questions about.

I re reading your original post I would first suggest that you check your square for accuracy.  If you take your square and play it along a straight edge and mark a line, then flip the square to a mirror image your edge should line up with your drawn line.  If it does then you have an accurate square.  It doesn't matter what brand you have, they can all be out. 

If it is not accurate then you have the answer to why your cuts are creating in essence tapered pieces.  You will head to setup and calibrate the MFT with a different square.  If it is accurate then something is wrong with your setup (sorry) and you need to try again.  Also pay attention to the secureness of the black end clamp and make sure that it is tightened.

Peter

 

[tjbnwi]

Without the fence on the unit, I have no clue how to square the MFT (and I'm really good at getting an MFT square). He states he removed the fence, nothing to square against.

The 1 mm out is due to cutting the mirrored edge, once the first cut was 1 mm out, the next will be 1 mm out unless you true it up.

Tom

 

[grbmds]

Without the fence on the unit, I have no clue how to square the MFT (and I'm really good at getting an MFT square). He states he removed the fence, nothing to square against.

The 1 mm out is due to cutting the mirrored edge, once the first cut was 1 mm out, the next will be 1 mm out unless you true it up.

Tom

Just some possible suggestions - Do you have any of the Festool clamps or "dogs" that fit into the holes on the MFT? They aren't as easy to use as other 3rd party dogs, but you can use them to first square up the fence, then use an accurate square to square up the guide rail.

if you have other 3rd party dogs, like Parf dogs, Lee Valley dogs, or others (not to slight them but I don't know all the names), you can use those to square up the fence then the guide rails or just to square the guide rail without the fence. If the rail is squared using the dogs, then the stops on the table are moved to secure them with the squared guide rail, you can then square the fence to the rail with another accurate square.

I was a little confused about your questions, so just providing some suggestions.

I would suggest, though, that you find one way to square up the fence, then the rail, or just the rail, as it can get confusing when you try to combine methods. I have seen so many ways to do it and they all seem to work. It's really just what you feel comfortable with. Peter Halle's method on You Tube seems very straight forward and seems to work well also. He uses 3rd party dogs as a starting point.

Hopefully I haven't confused you more.

 

[Adon]

Sorry for the confusion.

I removed the fence for pieces that are too large for the table. In this instance I am sometimes able to use the long Veritas planing stop which doesn't take up as much surface space. For these bigger cuts I am clamping the longer rail to the board. As for squaring the table I follow the practice detailed by "Stephen MacIntyre" on youtube.

The overall problem is not that the cut isn't square (at least not in all cases). The problem is that if I want to rip or cross cut to a fixed length despite careful measurement, the resulting piece is too long/wide or short/thin by ~1mm.

My new theory is that +/- 1mm is the most accurate I can make my pencil marks.

I think the angle of the pencil, the positioning of the measuring table, and the width of the pencil mark combined with the error of me lining the anti-splinter strip with the marks after each cut must be the problem.

Thoughts?

 

[grbmds]

If the 1 mm difference is consistent . . . When I mark I always use the same concept. For example, you could mark so the inside of the mark is right on the exact measurement, then always cut that mark off completely. Awhile back I had a trainer tell me that he marks with a V so that the tip (or bottom or point) of the V hits the exact measurement. Then he cuts right at the intersection of the two sides. With a Festool guide rail this is relatively easy since you can line the splinter guard right on that point and you should get the exact cut you want (assuming the splinter guard on the rail is cut accurately for the saw).

In all of this I did assume that the splinter guard is cut by the saw you are using. If not, that would be the first thing I'd do - Reapply the splinter guard and recut it.

For repetitive cuts of the same length or width, I try no to mark but rather make the first cut and use some sort of a stop or at least mark with a straight piece of wood cut to the length you want. At least all the marks should be the same.

Get as thin a pencil as possible. The thinner the pencil the less variation.

I know these  all sound obvious and don't mean to imply you haven't tried them. That's all I have though.

 

[iamnothim]

AP,

Not sure if you watched Paul-Marcel's three part MFT video.  I consider it the gold standard for calibrating an MFT.

I hope you haven't returned it as it is my favorite and most versatile Festool product I own.

Halfinchshy MFT Series